Outpost Universe Forums
Projects & Development => Outpost 2 Programming & Development => Topic started by: BlackBox on January 19, 2004, 05:29:34 PM
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Well, it's time to work on V2, the first version that there will be with a mission editor.
Tell me what you want to see in it here.
When you suggest things make sure it is:
- Realistic to accomplish (not something like, "make it scan your brain to know what you want your map to be")
- Related. Not something like, "Web browser add on!"
- Reasonable. Not something like "Make a huge mega add-on! And oh yeah, do it in a week."
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wut DLL editing functions is it gonig 2 have atm ?
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very, very basic ones... I'm not totally sure yet since I haven't done terribly much work on it lately...
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so no changing mining locations or anything?
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once we can do that, i will be able to finish one of my first maps, cause i'm going to have to do a custom dll for that one.
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I think it would be funny to have one where you are in this huge coloney with 4 3 bar common mines and 2 3 bar rare mines, completly surounding a small computer coloney with only 1 1 bar common and 1 1 bar rare lol
it would make you almost feel sorry for it
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no not really, it's hard to feel sorry for AI
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thats why I said, almost
also, if you can mess with the dlls, could you make it so that the computer are allied with you?
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The ability to edit volcanic activities would be greatly appreciated.
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so no changing mining locations or anything?
well, stuff like that (simple), but not any obscure things like "Capture RLV", "Infect with Blight", etc.
It will be able to create units and make a playable map.. but more complex stuff like AI, etc will not be implemented right away.
Also, we are getting (OT). This is a wishlist, not a "talk about what it can and can't do" thread.
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Yes, if we want to talk about that stuff, start a new thread.
The mission editor, i probably wont use much mainly because the AI uses the same simple strategy every time, and it gets boring. The map editor itself, i couldn't make it much better then it already is.
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also, with missions, I normally think of mission as being on the caimpain, will these count as campain missions? or just coloney games?
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I think they will just count as colony games, mainly because the colony games are like missions, missions have objectives to be completed, and colony games have 1 objective to be completed.
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Well, you could create any type of mission.. When I use the word "mission", I'm referring to any scenario script.. (Tutorial, Campaign, Colony, Multi, maybe even demo)
Again, please back to the topic... This is a wish list, not really a discussion.
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If you're going to have multiplayer location editing here too, then make sure that:
1) You can change the structures and vehicles each player starts with. (Note that you'd have to do this for both Land Rush and the other scenario types, since they both have different structure/vehicle placement.)
Now, for other things:
2) Make sure that you can change a cargo truck's cargo, or a ConVec's carried structure kit (make sure you can change the weapon of a stored guard post).
3) Change the location and mark of when a volcanic eruption starts.
4) I think there is probably an area where earthquakes are common, or several different locations on the map where they will strike. You should be able to change this, and the mark that earthquakes start to shake your structures to the ground (if one hits you, that is).
5) Change the mark when electrical storms start to hit. Not sure if there is an area where they are most common.
6) Change the area where vortexes are most common, and the mark that they start touching down.
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some nice ideas Arklon.
all i want is 2 b able 2 change mine and starting locations. then i can start makin some proper new maps.
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Also, you should be able to change the volcano's lava flow path as well. They usually follow a path similar to one defined in the DLL's, apparently.
Also, the ore and the number of bars a mining beacon has seems to be semi-random. Not sure exactly how it works, but they are always in the same place.
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I think all ideas here are very good...
If I could modify structure/vehicle positions, the mining locations/yield and these... New Terran catastrophes, I would really play Outpost 2 non-stop. (well almost, I have 2 think about OP3 too)
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(this may have already been done) make it so everything can be done locally, i remember once apon a time there was a web based editor (the tileset and advanced program functions were on-line)
also, implement "doodads" like placing a whole crater instead of one tile at a time
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Hmm, here's something that's easy to forget about.
Setting the colony starting resources (Scientists, Workers, Children, Food, Common Ore, Rare Ore).
And also things like which colony you are (Eden/Plymouth) and color, and where your view is centered on at startup.
It might also be nice to have a prebuilt set of victory and failure conditions to select from (Land Rush, Space Race, etc.).
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Maybe two modes like simple and advanced. People not that good at computers but like op2 can use simple, but advanced will let you control more aspects.
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Well... own terrain tiles, but I think it is impssible...
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Well, a lot of these are obvious, oh well:
- Modifying Mining beacons, and weither they are dynamic (changing from each time you play the mission) or static (Remains what they are permanently, a 3-Bar Common beacon will be a 3-bar common beacon no matter what you do).
- Modifying Colony Starting resources, population, food, common and rare ore.
- Modifying Contents of all vehicles, I think that not only Common/Rare ore AND Metals and Common and Rare Rubble should be an option, but wierd stuff should be avalible too, like Wreakage, Gene Bank, etc. Along with Convecs and Evacuation transports.
- Modifying Contents of Structures, this should be possible since the structure fac in Last one Standing starts with 6 kits.
- Modifying Allegiances (This is initially for colony games, right?), You can basically 'Ally' and 'Remove alliances' between factions.
- Modifying Disasters. Especially Volcanic lava flows, and when they start to appear/erupt and where they are more likely to occur.
- I beleive some sort of basic system should allow one to put basic mission conditions. Example, if your objective is to defend the Gene Bank, it does not matter weither the Gene Bank is snuggled away in a Truck or in some building somewhere, it consistantly checks if that it simply exists in the map somewhere, if the 'Gene Bank' no longer exists (IE, the player dumped it or it got destroyed when the structure/vehicle it was in blew up) Than the Mission fails.
- Modifying what researches and technologies are avalible, and what the colony starts off with (In Terms of Technology). Nothing like starting off from a clean slate, having to research the 5 Basic technologies. Also what is avalible and not avalible for construction and research.
- Adding/Removing/changing Fumeroles (Holes in the ground with smoke coming out) And Lava thingy (To put lava wells) Locaitons.
- Adding/Removing wreakages and other things that are in the map surface, so you have to find them with a scout.
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Well, that was a long list of good ideas... Oh, and I think the mining beacons are Dynamic
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They can be either dynamic or static, that I saw. Look in maps like Pie Chart, you ALWAYS get a 2-bar common ore and a 1-bar rare ore. It is not random.
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BUT if you look at COLONY GAMES, you should see it IS dynamic. And I rarely play multiplayer, how can I remember it... :whistle:
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Actually, I don't think the mining beacons in colony games are dynamic....so far I've only seen 3 ore layouts for each colony game. :whistle:
On some maps(mainly multi) the ore does move slightly though.
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Not to mention that some ore yields just always remain the same. Such as the Computer Player in La corrida always gets a 3-bar rare and 3-bar common.
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I meant YIELD not LAYOUT!
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I am talking about both Yield and Layout. Let me explain how the OP2 mining beacon process works.
On a Map, Mining beacons are all placed in pre-defined coordinates, after that, the Beacon will than have a setting, Dynamic, or Static. If it is static, than you basically can choose weither its Rare or Common, or weither its 1 bar, 2 bar, or 3 bar. If it is Dynamic, than I believe that it completely randomizes it, it can be Common or Rare, 1 bar, 2 bar, or 3 bar.
Although, that is what I remember, I think some recent evidence has showed that they may infact be static 100 percent, with there being 'Beacon layouts' that are randomly picked from a list, which determines all mines yields and what they are at once.
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I'm not stupid, I know all this stuff! LAYOUT=STATIC, YIELD=DYNAMIC in COLONY GAMES
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Whatever. I have no idea what you are even trying to get across. You are saying that all yields are dynamic and all locations are static in Colony games, which is not so.
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Well Layout is just almost static. There is a fix place and then ex. +- 5
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Layout is ALWAYs static in OP2, simply because if it was dynamic, it would really suck if a mining beacon was placed on impassible terrain.
Type and Yield are dynamic, ALWAYS.
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although often the game puts high yeald mining becons in the path of lava, so you would build your mine there and then it would be destroyed
so make sure you can change eathor the lava flow, or the path of lava, unless you feel like being evil like sierra
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RED13: I said that first... ****
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Sierra is dead, BTW.
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Sierra is not dead. Yet. :(
But they are evil, it's true
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Actually, they are DEAD. D-E-A-D. Vivindi shut them down not so long ago.
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Seems I don't read enough newspaper...
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http://www.gigex.com/general/article/?id=6...98&source=00001 (http://www.gigex.com/general/article/?id=6956&game_id=298&source=00001)
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Free games, free game downloads... a bit slow page...good game...Half-Life 2
I'm going away for a half hour. FRIENDS is now on TV.
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It is supposed to show the article which basically says outright that Sierra is shutting down.
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If you are speaking of the Half-Life 2, then it is the good URL.
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Just to clear things up a bit....
Outpost 2 is perfectly capable of randomizing the location, type of ore, and yield of all mines. In practice however, most of them are set to a predefined area with a predefiend ore and a predefined yield. Outpost 2 exports a function for generating random numbers which can be used when placing the mining beacons. It would be very easy to have a beacon randomly placed anywhere on the map or just anywhere inside of a predefined box. Placing the becaon somewhere in a box eliminates the problem of placing them on impassible terrain and even if a beacon was to be placed on impassible terrain, it would likely be moved. I know that if a building is placed on impassible terrain, it is moved to the closest location where it can be built.
Also, there isn't any sort of table in the DLLs that contain these values. It all hard coded troughout the DLLs.
Oh, and here's some interesting trivia for you. There are actually 9 types of yields defined in the game. Each x bar mine has 3 variants. The initial ore yields of each variant are all the same but they differ in their peak ore yields and their long run yields. So... I guess that's potentially something else to add to the editor.
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Basically
1-bar: High, Medium, Low yield
2-Bar: High, Medium, Low yield
3-Bar: High, Medium, Low yield
There are your nine values.
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Then, technically, aren't there 18 yields? :unsure:
Common 1 Bar: High, Medium, Low
Common 2 Bar: High, Medium, Low
Common 3 Bar: High, Medium, Low
Rare 1 Bar: High, Medium, Low
Rare 2 Bar: High, Medium, Low
Rare 3 Bar: High, Medium, Low
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nope
Rare 1-bar: Normal, Increased (by research)
Rare 2-bar: Normal, Increased (by research)
Rare 3-bar: Normal, Increased (by research)
Common 1-bar: Normal, Increased (by research)
Common 2-bar: Normal, Increased (by research)
Common 3-bar: Normal, Increased (by research)
EDIT: oh forget it havent read Hooman's post but i expirienced these in game
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PlayingOP2 is right.
The 3 'yields' for each # of bars are what you get when you improve yield by research (Metallogeny and Smelter Postprocessing increase this.)
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lol im right... now thats rare.
anyway then i shouldve written this:
Rare 1-bar: Normal, Increased, Highly Increased
Rare 2-bar: Normal, Increased, Highly Increased
Rare 3-bar: Normal, Increased, Highly Increased
Common 1-bar: Normal, Increased, Highly Increased
Common 2-bar: Normal, Increased, Highly Increased
Common 3-bar: Normal, Increased, Highly Increased
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Actually, this is from mines.txt in sheets.vol
YIELD VARIANT INITIAL_YIELD_% PEAK_TRUCK PEAK_YIELD_% MIN_TRUCK MIN_YIELD_%
High 1 50 14 60 50 30
High 2 50 20 55 60 30
High 3 50 10 55 50 35
Med 1 30 10 40 40 20
Med 2 30 12 40 35 20
Med 3 30 20 35 40 25
Low 1 10 10 25 40 15
Low 2 10 14 30 45 10
Low 3 10 20 20 50 10
The last parameter for CreateBeacon controls the variant. As you can see, all mines of a certain "bar" (High, Med, Low) have 3 variants. They all initially produce the same amount of ore (multiply by 10 to get actual value) but differ in their peak yields and long term yields. This has nothing to do with research. I'm not too sure about the PEAK_TRUCK and MIN_TRUCK values but I suspect it has something to do with how quickly the amount of ore produced changes with each truck full.
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Actually, this is from mines.txt in sheets.vol
I'm not too sure about the PEAK_TRUCK and MIN_TRUCK values but I suspect it has something to do with how quickly the amount of ore produced changes with each truck full.
Yes I believe you are right there. I also think that depending on the max yield it affects it too. Like if I (for example) were to set initial_yield to 10 and the peak_yield to 20 and the min_yield to 5, with min/peak trucks at 1, then the ore would increase 10 after one truck is loaded, and then go back down with the next truck loaded to the min_yield (in this case 5). But this is obviously more complicated then this in the game, seeing as the peak_truck and min_truck are seperated by so much.
At least, thats how I am understanding this. I could be wrong though :P.
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i understand it the same way lol
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Ok, I looked into it. The Peak_Truck and Min_Truck values are the number of truck loads for the ore yield to change from Initial to Peak values and from Peak to Min values. So yeah, the Initial, Peak, and Min values will all affect the rate too. So in the first mine type in mines.txt, it will take 14 truck fulls to go from initial to peak yield and it will take 50 truck fulls to go from peak to min yields.
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Get back to work on it.
That's my wish. ;)
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some suggestions for the editor itself:
Make it so that one can draw random terrain-tiles of the same type (i.e. sand or stone) without reselecting the tile. Will make the maps more varied.
maybe a function to make cliffs easier. (i.e. you drag the curser and the program determines which tiles to use)
And finally it should know, which tiles are passable and which not. You could do that with a simple table (e.g. tile -> attr)