Personally, I always thought that Eden should have had the spiders/scorpions. I am curious thou, is it possible to give Eden EMP Missiles aswell?If I remember correctly, Plymouth could use shuttles but Eden EMP-Missiles seemed to be bugged... They just vanish from the launch pad after start and they never go down. Or am I wrong? It has been a while since I tried that.
I think Eden's advantage of having the most destructive weapons should be countered somehow. And it doesn't take much effort to use them. If Either colony has an advantage I think it's Eden.If you think that then you obviously have never played OP2 MP, not against any halfway competent players anyway.
Nope, I haven't. All of my experience comes from Single play. I find I'm more frustrated facing Acid clouds and Thor's Hammers than a few EMP units with spiders.QuoteI think Eden's advantage of having the most destructive weapons should be countered somehow. And it doesn't take much effort to use them. If Either colony has an advantage I think it's Eden.If you think that then you obviously have never played OP2 MP, not against any halfway competent players anyway.
You should try going up against a Plymouth player constantly pumping out EMP missiles using 10+ spaceports then. And don't comment on multiplayer balance if you have never played it.QuoteNope, I haven't. All of my experience comes from Single play. I find I'm more frustrated facing Acid clouds and Thor's Hammers than a few EMP units with spiders.QuoteI think Eden's advantage of having the most destructive weapons should be countered somehow. And it doesn't take much effort to use them. If Either colony has an advantage I think it's Eden.If you think that then you obviously have never played OP2 MP, not against any halfway competent players anyway.
Yes, but online, players will emp their own units before the missile strikes.. that way the emp'd units will wake up before the others and kill off most of the approaching spiders.Pulling this off effectively is difficult because you don't have much of a window of time before the missile lands, and if you do it as soon as you hear "missile launch detected" it will be too early and your EMP will wear off before the missile lands. I've only ever seen it done a couple of times. And, generally, it'll be a big army approaching, not spiders.
correction: spiders are faster than lynx. I know becuase I constantly have to stop them to wait for the emp lynx (even with speed upgraded) to catch up.Is this happening on black rock tiles? Arachnids aren't slowed down as much due to terrain, though they still have a lower base speed than upgraded lynx.
The fact is, in Multiplayer, if it were possible to forcefully limit the amount of space ports allowed, then it would make it even.Not sure if that'd be the best way to go about it. Nerfing the resource cost, build time, and/or landing delay would probably be best. There is still the other factor that EMP missiles don't count towards your unit limit, so once you hit it you might as well put the extra resources into missiles.
As for spiders and scorpions, they obviously need to be fixed, but it comes down to a point "do they really need to be in the game at all?".Don't think they can really be fixed without some major engine hacking (most likely too major to be feasible). There's two things, besides their lack of hitpoints, herp derping (spiders), and weak weaponry (scorpions), that makes them undesirable. First, all units occupy the same space (1x1 tiles). Because of this, and how arachnids are designed to be massed to be effective, they have problems swarming through bottlenecks; they would work more nicely if they occupied 0.5x0.5 tiles, but that would for sure require TONS of modifications to the engine; at that rate, you'd almost be better off just rewriting the game. Second, all units count equally toward your unit limit, as opposed to, for example, Starcraft where different units have different "food" costs. You simply don't want 30 scorpions eating into your unit limit when those could be 30 RPG or ESG units.
Lynx un-upgraded moves the same speed as spiders (which is 3), but upgraded, it is the second fastest unit in the game (at speed 4, same as an un-upgraded scout, and 1 less then an upgraded scout).Movement speed is not merely determined by the move points. The track type (which makes speed different for different terrains) is also relevant.
Plymouth can stop the advances, if and only if they are someone who has said tactics and management to do so.The only thing Plymouth needs to do to stop MD creep is to not play on La Corrida. (MD creep would work semi-decently on Pie Chart as well, except that map heavily favors Plymouth due to the rush-friendly nature of the map anyway, so Eden is just not going to survive late enough into the game for EMP Missiles to show up unless they massively outplay their Plymouth opponent and the RNG doesn't screw them over for rare ore.)
CK9 - If the two of you were of equal skill, it seems you might have gotten a bit lucky ?I'd say Fio was a superior player high.
La Corrida doesn't have much in terms of bottlenecks and facing both superior numbers and superior weapons is not something that usually ends with survival.. B)
However, I'd also say that an eden player can still win by a landslide without them if they are more familiar with the most efficient research order than the plymouth player is.This is also known as "outplaying" which applies universally, and therefore says nothing about faction balance.
Eden VS Plymouth.Even this claim is dubious. Thor's Hammer has that raw damage output, but ESG with decent kiting micro can be absolutely devastating, plus ESG Lynx are bar none the best harrassment units in the game. Acid Cloud is pretty good, but it's very situational as the damage output isn't great against things with more than light/medium armor, and friendly fire is an issue with it. Supernova is a devastating weapon, to the point where on an open map Plymouth can pretty much just go mass Supernova Lynx and is guaranteed to get enough of them past their enemy's defenses to snipe their CC and possibly other important structures. As far common ore-only weapons go, Eden doesn't stand a chance; RPG is superior to Rail Gun (not being able to shoot over cliffs/walls is a huge minus for Rails), and Eden doesn't have Stickyfoam.
Superior weapons vs EMP Missiles.
The main advantage I see to acid over ESG:I'd still maintain that Acids main strength over ESG is that it does about double the damage compared to ESG. (Goes for all chassis)
ESG causes an auto-retaliation, Acid does not. Therefore, a single acid cloud lynx attacking defensive units while a focus-grabbing main battle is going on can give the eden player an opening.
"auto-retaliation"? What are you speaking about? I can't think of anything. Isn't a problem about acid that it can damage friendlies aswell?
Also, I'd say that while RPG outdamages Railguns in medium to long battles, it does generate a little higher first strike damage. Maybe you can use that for a hit-and-run tactic, would involve a lot of micromanagement skill thoughWell, it's been established that RPG is stronger than Rail gun in pure damage. RPG also is a bit useful since it does not require a direct line of sight. So RPG is the better weapon.
I'd still maintain that Acids main strength over ESG is that it does about double the damage compared to ESG. (Goes for all chassis)
I'd still maintain that Acids main strength over ESG is that it does about double the damage compared to ESG. (Goes for all chassis)Only if you try to use ESG as a straight AoE weapon, which it does poorly at compared to Acid. However if you use ESG to kite and cause the foremost enemy vehicles to be driving over the mines rather than splitting the mine damage between their whole army, it way outperforms Acid.
Auto retal is what happens with most other weapons. When you shoot at say a lynx, the lynx and other nearby units will automatically attack you in return.They will still automatically shoot at enemy units that come into range, including scouts that run into your army to cause friendly fire.
Acid doesn't have this effect, at least not when you only aim for area damage (Shooting next to your target), so you can leave a unit to do area damage like this until the other unit dies.
Well, it's been established that RPG is stronger than Rail gun in pure damage. RPG also is a bit useful since it does not require a direct line of sight. So RPG is the better weapon.Is this with or without the Rail damage tech or the Supernova tech researched? The Supernova tech actually increases RPG damage:
BEGIN_TECH "High-Powered Explosives" 08203
CATEGORY 7
DESCRIPTION "The Supernova weapon is now available. RPG damage increased. _______________________________________ A new explosive material, pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN), has been developed. PETN is about 60 percent more powerful than the material used in our Starflare weapons. Our RPG weapons systems have been upgraded to use PETN."
TEASER "Makes the Supernova weapon available. _______________________________________ The proven effectiveness of the Starflare weapon has led our scientists to propose a more powerful version. We have several formulas for chemical explosives more powerful than trinitrotoluene, but testing is required to determine which is most suitable for use as a reliable weapon."
IMPROVE_DESC "Increased damage"
REQUIRES 05602
REQUIRES 07102
EDEN_COST -1
PLYMOUTH_COST 1500
MAX_SCIENTISTS 12
LAB 2
UNIT_PROP CANNON Concussion_Damage 100
UNIT_PROP CANNON Penetration_Damage 45
END_TECH
Anyways, this thread seems to focus on late game, where it probably is more accurate to compare RPG vs Thor.Why would you compare a common-only weapon to one that requires rare? Plymouth's main DPS late game comes from ESG, RPG is for relatively cheap additional DPS that isn't micro-intensive like ESG is.
Only if you try to use ESG as a straight AoE weapon, which it does poorly at compared to Acid. However if you use ESG to kite and cause the foremost enemy vehicles to be driving over the mines rather than splitting the mine damage between their whole army, it way outperforms Acid.I agree with you here Arklon. ESG works great that way. Better than Acid since ESG has an area of effect 1 square larger than Acid and also because it is easier to visualize/work with and mines stay on the ground for a longer period compared to Acid's Cloud.
Is this with or without the Rail damage tech or the Supernova tech researched?
Why would you compare a common-only weapon to one that requires rare? Plymouth's main DPS late game comes from ESG, RPG is for relatively cheap additional DPS that isn't micro-intensive like ESG is.
Well, thanks for that, I never thought about that, I always kind of just accepted that happeningQuote"auto-retaliation"? What are you speaking about? I can't think of anything. Isn't a problem about acid that it can damage friendlies aswell?
Auto retal is what happens with most other weapons. When you shoot at say a lynx, the lynx and other nearby units will automatically attack you in return.