Outpost Universe Forums
Community => Feedback/Suggestions/Problems => Topic started by: Sirbomber on January 04, 2008, 09:55:58 AM
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BlackBox and I have been talking, and we've decided to rebuild the Wiki. Everything will be deleted and rebuilt from the ground up. We're telling you all this so you all have the opportunity to browse through the Wiki and find anything you think is important enough for us to save.
However, before you do, there's some stuff we don't want. Useless, trivial information, like information about each and every map. We don't need that (especially since it's already on the website).
Ultimately, however, what you deem important will be judged by me and a few others, so don't think that just because you run around saying everything is important means we'll keep it. In fact, doing that will just make us mad at you.
Okay guys, go at it! http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/ (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/)
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Are users deleted?
BTW:
I'm skilled in making (and stealing) wiki code. Could make useful Navbars, and main menu... If i Knew my password :P
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Yeah, personally I would like to restart everything on a fresh wiki. (The current software we are using is a huge pain to manage things. For example, something as simple as resetting a user's password is a non-trivial task).
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Yes, all user accounts will be deleted, since we'll be starting fresh.
Please link to any pages you want us to keep. Do not post the pages here.
I can just see somebody posting huge chunks of text here, so please don't.
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Ok great I like the idea of starting a fresh and copying content over.
What I think we should do is move the wiki to oldwiki.outpostuniverse.net for now and setup the new wiki at wiki.outpostuniverse.net.
Are we still planing on using MediaWiki?
We need input from all users here please!- What do you think the wiki should have on it?
- How should it be organized?
- What are the main categories?
- Should each project have a page?
- What guides would you like to see on the wiki?
- Should we have a map list on the wiki?, one page per map or what?
- Should the OP2 manual be on the wiki or on the site?
I would like to see some planing before we jump into it.
Thanks. I hope we can one day have a good wiki :)
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The new Wiki will be on a separate server, and it will have less useless information. We don't need to explain what a Command Center or the Blight is. That stuff is in our guides and the OP2 Help File. We won't need each and every individual novella chapter on the Wiki as we could easily put it in a separate PDF available for download. Same for map lists. Projects should probably have their own Wiki if they're big enough. If not, they can each have a little snippet on one giant projects page.
The organizing process is already well underway, but thanks for your concern.
Edit: Here's your mission list, straight from my OP2 CD:
c_mpgame.doc (http://www.outpost2.net/files/c_mpgame.doc)
EDIT (leeor_net): fixing broken links
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http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Outpost_2_:_Colony_Search (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Outpost_2_:_Colony_Search)
A small memory for a big game. :'(
Also, updating the wiki could be a good idea, and adding extension that are needed.
(like moz-borders)
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I believe these page should be saved; some of them may need updating however.
Compiler_Setup (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Compiler_Setup)
Creating_Tech_Trees (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Creating_Tech_Trees)
How_To_Make_Tilesets (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/How_To_Make_Tilesets)
ADemo1 (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/ADemo1)
ADemo2 (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/ADemo2)
ADemo3 (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/ADemo3)
AI_Coding (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/AI_Coding)
AI_Coding_Examples (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/AI_Coding_Examples)
Adding_Extra_Player_Slots (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Adding_Extra_Player_Slots)
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I've used this in a few missions:
Setting Terrain As Lava Possible (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/How_to_use_lava)
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The organizing process is already well underway, but thanks for your concern.
Then post it so all can see. It should be a group effort. We want input from everyone.
Also I think some of the big coding forum topics should be put on the wiki such ad some of Hooman's threads.
Thanks :D
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I think the Wiki would be most useful if it were devoted mostly to coding topics. Most other information would likely be redundant.
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Well, there will be some non-code stuff (so regular people might actually use it).
We'll have a coding section, a (very small) projects section, maybe an "in-depth" guide section (with tips specific to individual maps).
The old Wiki is overburdened with useless information. The new one will be much smaller and easier to navigate.
To reduce the number of articles, editing will probably be limited to a small group of trustworthy, dedicated staff members. This group will discuss proposed additions and changes, and a majority will be required to approve any edits to the Wiki. I think we can all agree this group will make for a better organized and more professional place for us to store important data.
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BlackBox and I have been talking, and we've decided to rebuild the Wiki. Everything will be deleted and rebuilt from the ground up. We're telling you all this so you all have the opportunity to browse through the Wiki and find anything you think is important enough for us to save.
However, before you do, there's some stuff we don't want. Useless, trivial information, like information about each and every map. We don't need that (especially since it's already on the website).
Ultimately, however, what you deem important will be judged by me and a few others, so don't think that just because you run around saying everything is important means we'll keep it. In fact, doing that will just make us mad at you.
Okay guys, go at it! http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/ (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/)
Forgive my objection; but I have an issue with what you've got planned here, bomber.
You say a wiki doesn't need information about every unit in the game and each map and such, but isn't that the point of an encyclopedia-esque database? I think a [albeit well organized] page for each unit, structure, map, et cetera is pretty much essential. And if the stuff is already on the site, why have a wiki?
Chris
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The problem with the current wiki is that is it terribly organized. There is no effective way to crawl across the pages like the full wikipedia has. IMO, the biggest reason for a new wiki is to correct this problem using a new wikipedia type... I'm not sure how exactly wikipedi work, but from what I've heard the current one is a pain to work with.
I wouldn't mind sections for the basic stuff, like units, structures, etc. as long as they are separate from the other topics. It's hard enough to find information on, for example, tech tree making when there are 2340293 wiki pages for each mission file.
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Well, I just figured since that information is easily accessible in the OP2 Help File, we don't need it. But if we do have pages about those kinds of things, then they shouldn't be copy/paste jobs from the help file (which is what they are now).
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Well, I just figured since that information is easily accessible in the OP2 Help File, we don't need it.
Someone should not have to use or have the manual to get at that information. It should be online for all to find. People are used to using the web to find things and expect the information online and not have to download the manual each time etc.
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Well, I just figured since that information is easily accessible in the OP2 Help File, we don't need it.
Someone should not have to use or have the manual to get at that information. It should be online for all to find. People are used to using the web to find things and expect the information online and not have to download the manual each time etc.
Everybody who has OP2 should have that manual...
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Not... exactly
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Better for information to be on the web than to have to download it each time. You should be able to acess information from any location etc.
Anyway back on topic..
We would like more input from users please.
And Sirbomber can you please post your current plans on how the new wiki will be organized etc so we can see and comment etc. Thank you.
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Regarding having pages on maps and stuff...
I don't really think we need a separate page for each and every map and dll file that there is. Now on the other hand, if we were to combine those into one page that might be okay.
However... it would easily get out of date.. and I don't think that a wiki is necessarily the best place for lists. Especially lists of information that people could easily find out themselves. (Name of level, map used, etc? There is a tool that scans all DLLs in the OP2 directory and tells you that).
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And Sirbomber can you please post your current plans on how the new wiki will be organized etc so we can see and comment etc.
Well, now I have to revise the plan since people are already making organizational requests before I've had a chance to talk about how I plan to do all of this...
Okay, here you go:
I'm planning on having several sections:
-History of Outpost and OPU (Including a Hall of Fame to honor the Heroes of OPU who have kept the game alive after all these years, and probably a Hall of Shame for all the people who nearly killed the game over the years).
-Outpost 1 (Game Basics, Structure Info)
-Outpost 2 (Game Basics, Unit and Structure Info, List of Maps and Missions, Map-Specific Strategies, among others)
-Development (Coding, Mapping, Modding, Techtree Making, One General-Info Projects Page)
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Double-post power!
Okay, I'd like it if somebody with the authority to do so would delete or move the old Wiki and add a new one so we can start rebuilding it.
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Hi sirbomber... :./
Gah! Don't kill precious opu history! >.>
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Save the pictures of the buildings and units that are uploaded, that will save a lot of time creating pages for the structures n units
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It should be moved and a new one started.
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Yeah, that's what I said.
So somebody do it so I can get started with this thing.
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Well guys I realy think we should start geting this done. We need to decide on a structure for it.
I allways liked the OpenTTD wiki (http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Main_Page).
Some suggestions for sections:
Gameplay Manual
Multiplayer Manual
Development
Player Resources
Projects
We should defo keep the op2 manual on the wiki like before. Multiplayer manual will include things releated to mutlplayer gaming. Multiplayer guides and such. Development for creating content for the game.
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I was talking to Hooman, and he said that we should probably just scrap the wiki and put the useful stuff (novellas, code snippets, guides, etc) in a special part on the main site.
I think it makes sense. I really don't care where the stuff is as long as it's not cluttered and it's easy to find.
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I agree that the wiki was good for some content but also bad for other.
The coding section on the main site only really needs to be a brief overview, links to coding samples / examples.
Then links to relevant forum topics in the coding section.
Perhaps the same for projects, unless the project is big enough and well progressed to have its own site i.e. Renagades as it has been released, but the majority of op3's don't need to be there except perhaps for genesis. Even then the progress really should be link to the genesis site.
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My main point was that the wiki was not appropriate for things which should not be edited, such as the novellas.
The wiki probably also isn't so great when info needs to be completely replaced rather than patched up, especially if historical versions need to be easily accessible. Nor is the wiki particularly good in subject areas where there is not a significant number of people knowledgable on the subject. Keep in mind that mainstream wiki sites usually have a lot more people using the wiki then we have here. If we can't reasonably expect a number of people to contribute, then there's no real point in using wiki over some other format. We might also want to avoid using the wiki for things on which there are many conflicting viewpoints, since the nature of wiki means people will be editing what other people say.
I've also found the organizational structure of the wiki to be seriously lacking.
It's not so much that I oppose using a wiki, as I don't see the point. Most of the things that have been suggested for the wiki would be better suited to some other form of presentation.
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Thats mainly what were here to discuss Hooman. A new organizational structure and to get rid of stuff that should not be on there. To start over and make a good wiki! :)
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Why dont you just start adding on the website have it all in a centralized location.
I would think this would be best as you can make it look any which way possible. Because Wiki is good for like text but not alot of tables and s***.
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Thats the idea, to have everything in one location where all the active members can help on it.
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Wiki is just f***ing nasty for formatting. Probably not the best idea to turn the whole website into one.
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Wiki is for Information not websites
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Noticing the comment about "development," I have my two cents to add:
If you think code (other than short snippets illustrating how to do something) should be posted on a wiki or anything like that, I don't think it's a very good idea at all. Ideally, code that is going to be a sort of community project (any significant amount, like a whole file) should be posted on SVN or some other kind of version control system. These systems are much more suited to programmers.
With regards to making the website a wiki, my opinion is a big resounding "no." In my opinion, the website is best meant as a place to put pages and information that changes infrequently (such as the IRC / hamachi setup guides, download pages, links pages, etc). Stuff like this, help file contents, etc. shouldn't be posted on a wiki (this kind of information has no real reason to be changed often and a wiki encourages that to a point).
I think the biggest barrier to having a maintainable wiki, however, is the lack of manpower we need to keep it organized. Ideally, there should be editors who periodically clean up, revise, etc. If we can't get people who will periodically devote time to this, we shouldn't have a wiki. (And the excuse that "allowing the whole community to edit" doesn't really seem to work either. Large wikis like Wikipedia still have groups of editors, admins, etc. who go through and clean up the garbage. If we make the wiki a free-for-all then all kinds of useless crap is bound to get posted just like what we have now).
Another thing is the software used. The current software we use (mediawiki) is terrible to upkeep and maintain, and I have heard many a complaint about the terrible wiki syntax it uses. In my opinion a good wiki would either: a) have a graphical / wysiwyg editor, or B) allow a subset of HTML so that people can use what they are familiar with, rather than having to learn some new, useless markup language to write pages for the Wiki.
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I totally agree with BlackBox on all that.
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Let's just dump the piece of crap and devote our attention to the site.
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Its not realy about have a maintainable wiki but haveing a maintainable website that dosent rely on one person to be updated. The website should be on a CMS system which trusted members have admin access to. If you want something with a wysiwyg editor I would suggest Joomla. That also allows for HTML editing.
And Sirbomber I never said it must be a wiki. We just need something that can be updated when people make new tools and such and by that person.
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perhaps you should give the people who have the ablity to do websites access to certain parts of the site that need the attention. Or the people that actually want to do it.
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If you want something with a wysiwyg editor I would suggest Joomla.
Joomla is quite frankly a piece of crap. I'd rather not see our site get hacked every other day by 13 year old russian script kiddies.
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Well some other CMS that does the job then!
So what CMS/wiki are we going to use?
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I just pulled out my old copy of Outpost 2, and discovered I was having far too much trouble so I found this website and managed to pull down a fully working version, so first, thanks.
Second, I did find the Wiki and the pages on the website, and was wondering if I could get an account or status on the Wiki rewrite? I couldn't find any of my documentation and had a devil of a time figuring out techs and such again in one of the colony games.
Is it possible if not to grab a Wiki account and to just add pages that are missing from the website, such as techs and buildings?
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Editing has been disabled. We were going to trash it and start from scratch until we all remembered that nobody uses it anyways.
Anyways, hi there. Come on IRC sometime during the weekend.
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Sad. For the life of me, I couldn't find tech trees or anything anywhere and was hoping the wiki would have them.
So, a bit off topic, but where would such things be located?
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In some dead links.
That's right, there are no actual links :/
I suggest, uh... doing the campaigns on easy for a rough idea of their order?
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>.<
While I may have the original Outpost 2 disc, I'm not sure where my manual is to look up such things, and have no desire to go through the campaign to find out such details.
On the other hand...can I grab the information from the...'vol'? files?
Well, would it be possible even so to grab editing functions for the wiki to add such a thing, or even another sub-domain with the wiki software. Because I have to admit, I've always enjoyed this game, and think it could benefit from having more of the documentation available in a more open format.
I also, after reading the thread, do believe that even information which is fairly static such as tech. trees works out well in a wiki format. For reference, I would point to the Dwarf Fortress Wiki (http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Main_Page). An open-source game that has most of the documentation available in that format.
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I think I'm experienced enough to let you know that personal experience is the best way to go.
Once you start playing multi player and pick up some essential hints, you'll probably find yourself changing your play style.
I could only become somewhat of a competent player after the first month or two of multi playing and that's considering I've played this game quite a few times during the past 10 years before that.
If you're not prepared to take a long trip to learning the techs well, then don't bother, you'll just drop it at some point.
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Quite frankly, that's not what I'm concerned about. I've played the single-player campaign numerous times throughout the years. I especially enjoy the colony games and with the discovery of this forum, am intrigued at all of the hacking that has been going on.
My main purpose in having a tech tree is for my brother and girlfriend, quite frankly, and to have a reference I can use if I lose interest and come back, which will probably occur as it has throughout the past years as well.
If you're not prepared to take a long trip to learning the techs well, then don't bother, you'll just drop it at some point.
I'm curious, are you talking about building a tech tree or playing the game?
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He's talking about playing the game, saying (let me paraphrase) "if you don't want to learn the techtree don't bother playing the game" (I think).
PS: I think you'll find these helpful:
http://gallery.outpostuniverse.net/display...t=10984&pos=-92 (http://gallery.outpostuniverse.net/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=10984&pos=-92)
http://gallery.outpostuniverse.net/display...t=10984&pos=-93 (http://gallery.outpostuniverse.net/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=10984&pos=-93)
Edit 2: You know, if you really want, I can probably convince BlackBox to let you have free reign over the Wiki; it's not like anyone cares about it as is. What's the worst that could happen? You might make something good out of it! Just say the word.
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:blink: Those are truly amazing. Exactly the sort of thing that helps conceptualize the tech. tree.
And, no worries about the wiki, I set up one of my own just to play around, if anything comes of it, I'll work with whoever to get it transferred here, if nothing comes of it, then you won't hear about it again. :P
And, Hidiot, I must disagree, while learning through trial and error through the Campaigns may be a useful "character building" experience, being able to understand the flow of technology and units and buildings and upgrades that are received in an overview format also helps with understanding.
But, I believe I have carried that point far too afield from the original wiki, so, may we agree to just to disagree on the best method of learning the tech. tree?
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Meh, I'm not one to completely exclude other possibilities. Just sharing my personal experience.
I guess the reason we don't really have a wiki is that with the low number of new players, it's not that hard to help each individually (preferably over IRC though).
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i found some where a cool looking tech tree,
i will try to find the links.....
eden (http://gallery.outpostuniverse.net/displayimage.php?pid=92&fullsize=1)
plymouth (http://gallery.outpostuniverse.net/displayimage.php?pid=93&fullsize=1)
yea!!
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Uhhh, yeah... Those are the ones I linked to...
Anyways, we're getting really off-topic now.
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sorry.... din't see that far up.....
any way, why cant you just allow people to add stuff and just delete it if it dosnt apply?
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see, that would be logical, and were not that smart.
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Spell, for once?
We'd be lucky if even 5 people were using that wiki. Why put effort into something that maybe 5 people use?
Only should there be really nothing better to do would one actually do that.
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5 people may use it now, but if a curious internet traveler wanders in and see's a nice wiki that presents the game as it is, they could keep interested in the game and come play or mod. If they can't find anything due to information being scattered about, then they could just as easily go their merry way about the series of tubes.
If anything, the main page should be redone. Perhaps the left side in the green panel, have "player" resources, such as tech trees, unit information, game storyline (which could just as easily be taken from wikipedia or include a link, easy work there), etc. The right side or blue panel, make it a set of "modding" resources, such as how to edit things within the game, links to the mapper, game, mods, etc. And of course on the right, also wiki-related development things.
Just a suggestion on how to present the information in an easy and upfront manner to people who happen upon the site as well as people who disappear and come back. I know I'm still struggling with figuring out tilesets, as I can't seem to extract the native OP2 files, so I can speak from experience here being a community newbie.
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Would be great to have more info on the wiki and work done on it :)
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Damn, it's been a long time since I last heard of my beloved OP2. Glad to see this community still stands :D. It's been what, a whole year? The only thing that has changed is that OP3D thingy <_< (by the way, congrats Celledor). At least we got half-a-dozen new members :blink:.
Anyway, reading through the forum I found this thread that's been around longer than my absence (not that's a big deal), but to my surprise the wiki is still the same! Had some free time and got inspired by this:
5 people may use it now, but if a curious internet traveler wanders in and see's a nice wiki that presents the game as it is, they could keep interested in the game and come play or mod. If they can't find anything due to information being scattered about, then they could just as easily go their merry way about the series of tubes.
which I totally agree.
Before anyone suggests that I do it myself (I'm looking at you Sirbomber), I started rewriting the main Outpost 2 page, but to my utter disbelief, the edit page isn't loading, not even displaying an error :o.
So, I decided to post here for reviews (MediaWiki format):
'''Outpost 2: Divided Destiny''' is a Real Times Strategy (RTS) game developed by [[Dynamix]] and released in 1997 by [[Sierra Entertainment]]. Outpost 2 is a 'spiritual' sequel to the original [[Outpost]], reusing and enhancing the storyline and some game mechanincs, but adding new gameplay elements such as combat and a more narrative style. Unlike similar games, Outpost 2 is a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science_fiction hard science fiction] game.
==Plot==
<center>''“Extinction is not an option.”''
-Captain of ''[[Conestoga]]''</center>
As a massive asteroid called ''[[Vulcan's Hammer]]'' collides on Earth, the gigantic starship ''[[Conestoga]]'' flees with the last of the human race. Survivors are put into [[stasis]] while ''[[Savant|Savants]]'', intelligent computer systems, scan the skies for an appropriate world. After almost a century, as resources reach a critical level, some crewmembers are taken out of stasis to make a critical decision, continue the search, and risk no suitable planet to be found, condemning everyone to certain death in the void of space, or go to a dry, Mars-like planet, only marginally suitable for human survival.
They chose to land. ''[[New Terra]]'', as they called it, was dead in almost every possible way. No geological activity, almost no atmosphere, cold and dry. Even though, it was their new home.The original colony was simply called ''"Outpost"'', built from what they could salvage from the landers and the Conestoga when it crashed on the surface of New Terra. But, as it grew, the survivors started calling it by a new name: ''[[Eden]]''. A time of limited prosperity came, as the colonists struggled to survive in the inospid environment, but internal conflict forced almost half of the survivors to flee and to found another colony.
''[[Plymouth]]'' had a different philosofy. Instead of trying to tame New Terra, by tansforming it in another Earth as Eden was trying to do, Plymouth wanted to live in harmony with the planet. Initially, both colonies tried to reconciliate, but when Eden announces it's plan to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming terraform] New Terra, Plymouth shuts down the only communications satellite available, and both sides go on living separate lives.
Years passed, and in a meeting with the majority of Eden citizens, the chairman announces a breakthrough that allowed New Terra to be terraformed not in centuries, but in a single lifetime by using a genetic altered bug, the ''[[Blight]]''. The bug was more successful than anyone could've predicted, and in an accident, the laboratory where the meeting was being held exploded, killing almost everyone inside and unleashing the Blight. At the same time, ''Mt. Goddard'', an old and inactive volcano, erupted, it's lava flowing torwards Plymouth, built at it's base.
The situation has become critical, but, ''extinction is not an option''.
==Gameplay==
Unlike other RTS games, Outpost 2 is mostly focused towards colony building and management, but combat is still very important, specially in multiplayer matches.
===Colony Management===
====Morale====
: ''Main article: [[Morale]]''
The most important resource of the game is morale. It defines birth and death rate of the colonists, and so the size of you colony since you need colonists to maintain your builings, production rates and research rates. It can fluctuate as the game progess based on several factors, including housing capabilities, food production and war casualties.
====Research====
: ''Main article: [[Research]]''
Outpost 2 have an unique research tree and system. Most research topics available are intrinsically tied to the storyline, with a few 'generic' topics. Also, all topics researched are permanent as the campaign progesses. As in the real world, research is very important for successful strike and defence forces, and for the development of the colony. Because of this, research is one of the main objectives in campaing games, and can be decisive in multiplayer games.
====Ore====
: ''Main article: [[Ore]]''
Even as not important as morale and research are, you cannot actually ''build'' something out of the blue, you need ore. Similar to Tiberium in Command and Conquer, Crystal and Gas in Starcraft and Money in countless games, ore is what you use to build, and it comes in two flavors, ''Common Ore'', representing commonly found elements such as iron and aluminum, and ''Rare Ore'', representing rare elements, such as gold and platinum. Ore is obtained from mines and have to be processed before use.
===Combat===
====Weapons and Tactics====
No combat units in Outpost 2 are manned, but controlled by a remote computer. This is important to know because colonists can be classified as resources, which without your colony cannot funtion. The only way to kill enemy colonists is by destroying a manned building.
There are three classes of [[Combat_chassis|combat vehicles]] and eleven types of [[Weapons|weapons]], giving a total of 33 possible combinations plus the [[Arachnids|spider and scorpion]], avaiable only to Plymouth. Not all weapons are made to do direct damage, but to be used in conjuction with another weapon type, giving the player a wide range of possible tactics.
====Super Weapons====
Unlike traditional RTS (yes, Outpost 2 ''is not'' a traditional RTS), there are nothing like super weapons. The only weapon that can be considered as a super weapon 'prototype' is the EMP rocked, obtained by the end of the Plymouth campaing. Still, it's expensive to create and produce, and it doesn't do any permanent damage. This is explained by the setting: Eden and Plymouth battling for survival, and not annihilation.
I still want to add more content, such as images. Most of the pages it links to don't yet exist (at least I hope so), that I'll write after this page is ready.
If you want to see how this page looks like without all formatting characters, go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=edit), paste the quoted text and click 'Show preview'.
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I started rewriting the main Outpost 2 page, but to my utter disbelief, the edit page isn't loading, not even displaying an error :o.
Yes, that's because BlackBox disabled editing. I've only mentioned it 148 or so times so I could understand how you might have missed that.
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Yes, that's because BlackBox disabled editing. I've only mentioned it 148 or so times so I could understand how you might have missed that.
Must've missed that. It happens when you're reading an year's worth of new posts :heh:.
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So, no one cares about the Wiki, right?
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Nope.
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Nope.
Though so...
Sad actually. A good Wiki would help getting more members.
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Well, feel free to setup your own; if it's any good maybe Hooman can change the links.
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I would put my 2 cents in if there was a wiki i could edit. only problem would be the amount of spam bots, like we have right now.
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Spam bots can't use the wiki if you authorize each member.
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I'm taking a shot at making a wiki. I will show you it later tomorowo.
Heres what I got so far, Wiki (http://outpost-unvierse.wikispaces.com/)
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I'm taking a shot at making a wiki. I will show you it later tomorowo.
Heres what I got so far, Wiki (http://outpost-unvierse.wikispaces.com/)
Saying you haven't done anything yet would be the same. No content whatsoever.
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well, i did it for like 10 minutes, then went to sleep... i will work on it today.
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Yeah another wiki would be good. (Except for the fact that it's called "Outpost-Unvierse" XD.
Also; I hate the ads.
We could upload wiki software to a free host, and start from there. That way we have access to the source, and can make backups and whatnot, and don't have any ads.
Also.. I can't seem to find the reason for the old wiki being closed. Was this because of the fact that it needed to be hosted on the OPU server, or to it not being maintained or something? (In wich case a new wiki could possibly be uploaded here aswell)
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Hooman asked me to name it "Outpost2" to keep things simple (war origanly called Outpost-Universe). Now my exam is done for the day, I'm going to begin work. If any one wants to join, your welecome too.
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Well.. I'll maybe help (..though I'm not really experienced with OP2; just started again last week..).
But I still want to ask you: Why not host it ourself (free host[/ this server?]), and use free Wiki software (like DokuWiki?) ? (not mediawiki, as I heard that mediawiki's bad back-end was one of the reasons for not using this old wiki anyhow)
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I'm taking a shot at making a wiki. I will show you it later tomorowo.
Heres what I got so far, Wiki (http://outpost-unvierse.wikispaces.com/)
Saying you haven't done anything yet would be the same. No content whatsoever.
Owned. I have underestimated you, Brazilian Fan.
Also.. I can't seem to find the reason for the old wiki being closed. Was this because of the fact that it needed to be hosted on the OPU server, or to it not being maintained or something? (In wich case a new wiki could possibly be uploaded here aswell)
Part of it was because it had no useful information, was never used, rarely updated, and was mostly a dumping ground for crap. Lack of organization was also a factor, and the ability of almost anyone to come in and edit it willy-nilly contributed to a lot of the problems. For further info: Outpost: Colony Search (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Outpost_2_:_Colony_Search) (I think this is the page that convinced BlackBox to shut the wiki down).
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@Sirbomber: Ah, thanks for the info.
Hm.. then perhaps a new wiki will need some sort of post-approval first.
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Umm, just wondering, do you have a list of all ingame technologies for me to copy (i'm using the picture Kontana made at the moment).
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@Spikerocks101: Have you even looked at the question I posted earlier? :blink:
(The one about hosting it ourselves..)
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i really don't know what any of that is :( This was one i used before, so i dicided to use it again. If you show me how to do one, i would build it that way.
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Sure.. I'll see if I can setup a host for you somewhere.
I think DokuWiki also also has some support for restrictions, though I'm not sure. This could make it all more managable
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btw, is it going to be editing online or offline, becuase i perfer offline (the one site i was using has some serious lag)
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Depends..
How would offline-editing work?
I'm not sure if you can do checkout's or anything.. and I dont think the wiki will play nice with FTP software..
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ok. well, i will hold off editing until you get the thing set up.
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Why don't you just approach the thing with patience? Have the local wiki cleared and re-started, as was suggested, but never had enough support?
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oh, so thats what he ment. ok. i do wish to start right away thou :P
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It would be great is we could use OPU's wiki, ofcourse (but maybe change the software over to DokuWiki, as that's what I'm gonna install [unless someone else has a better idea]).
I'll set the DokuWiki up anyway, and see if we can convert it later or something.
>_< .. didn't count on 48hr approval time..
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since the current opu wiki is called "Outpost-Universe" and hooman said he wanted to switch everything over to "Outpost2", maybe, for a bit, we can have 2 wikis?
n/m, wiki.outpost2.net redirects to the other one...
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Planning can never hurt, and while we're waiting for the server to validate, here's a possible list for the setup.
Everything is divided into namespaces, except for misc-articles.
Like 'namespace:article' as the url.
Sub-namespaces (like the 'Units' below) are just units:article; not game_info:units:article.
[Misc]
[Game Info] (plot, manuals)
--[Building] (basically, things like this (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Basic_lab))
--[Units]
--[Research]
[Running the Game]
--[Setup/Install]
--[Multiplayer]
[Modding]
--[Mapping]
--[Missioning]
--[Hacking]
[Projects]
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Or, you could start contributing to Outpost EarthWiki (http://outpost-earthwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) right away.
[size=8](Between you and me, there is content. And 10 articles, yay!)[/size]
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Wait.. there are 4 OP2 wiki's now? (this, earthwiki, spikerocks, [mine])
Wow..
Don't really like your wiki though.. (sorry)
You can't apply any restrictions or anything, and it can get messy real quick.
Just wait for the wiki of spikerocks and me.. It's gonna be a lot cleaner.
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You can't apply any restrictions or anything, and it can get messy real quick.
Just wait for the wiki of spikerocks and me.. It's gonna be a lot cleaner.
Who said I can't apply restrictions? The main page, for example, is fully protected. Only I can edit it. Anyway, I'm targeting content, and not prettiness.
But I do disagree with you, self-hosted wiki is not always the answer. It's a lot easier to maintain the front-end than both the from-end and back-end.
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Hm.. I don't know.. I don't know..
I always like control over my files.
(we'll never agree on this)
But.. let's face it.. multiple wiki's is not really usefull, is it?
We need to decide wich one to use:
[Spikerocks/AmIMeYet]
[Brazilian Fan]
I VOTE MINE! :P
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We'll always agree: I like 100% control of my files, but sometimes it isn't nice to have to support an overly complicated infrastructure for 100%, if you can just forget and have 80% :P.
Also agree that multiple wikis aren't useful, but since you chose yours, I'll choose mine. At least I have some content.
Or we could write two separate wikis and let OPU choose.
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(Wait, so if I hadn't voted mine, you did? :P )
First off: the content will be the same anyway (in the end); same users, same content.
Let me ask you something: Can you export all the wiki data?
Because DokuWiki saves everything as a text file; we can go in and get it even if bandwidth is exceeded or anything.. and can easily be moved to another host.
From what I hear from you (you can set permissions, etc.) you already have a back-end of some kind. Why not just take on the files too? There's no real maintainance to be done there. It's really not complicated. If we where to code the wiki ourselves, then we'd be screwed, but this software is made to be easy.
If only my hosting account got validated real quick and I could show you how awesome it is :D
Sure, bandwidth is a potential issue; but I do think the small OP community won't exceed 10GB (a month?)
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Well, either way, i'm quitting the one site i had, but keeping the naem (maybe i should redirect it to another wiki?). non the less, i really hate all wikis that have adds (again, i only used that becuase its all i had). Once ur server things is up, please let me edit it freely :D
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Hooman asked me to name it "Outpost2" to keep things simple (war origanly called Outpost-Universe).
Say what? I think you're confusing two different things.
I suggested you not use the name Outpost Universe, but I didn't suggest what you should change the name to. Name it whatever you want, just it should probably be different from the name of this place if it's an external site.
My other suggestion was about the link to the Outpost Universe site. For those that don't know, there are at least 3 domain names in use for the Outpost Universe. They are:
outpostuniverse.net
outpostuniverse.net
outpost2.net
During the site update, I removed the domain name from most links that didn't need it, so the pages would play nice no matter where they were hosted. For the ones that did need a full domain name in the link, I've started using outpost2.net. Mostly because it's shorter and easier to type. Plus, I've noticed occasional confusing behavior when switching between them, like being "logged out" of the forums. I figure it might be helpful to standardize on one of them, rather than just use any of them at random.
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Nope.
Though so...
Sad actually. A good Wiki would help getting more members.
I agree I think it would help. It would make it easier for members to learn about the game and making content for it.
Spikerocks101 the wiki is up:
wiki.outpostuniverse.net/ (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Main_Page)
We should NOT have multiple wikis, we should stick to one, OPU's wiki. Anyone can edit and contribute towards it.
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i still can't edit anything, unless you were saying something else...
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Lev has this annoying habit of only reading 2 or 3 new posts (and even then not reading them fully) and assuming what the rest of the new posts are about... Just keep doing what you were doing.
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(Wait, so if I hadn't voted mine, you did? :P )
First off: the content will be the same anyway (in the end); same users, same content.
Let me ask you something: Can you export all the wiki data?
Because DokuWiki saves everything as a text file; we can go in and get it even if bandwidth is exceeded or anything.. and can easily be moved to another host.
From what I hear from you (you can set permissions, etc.) you already have a back-end of some kind. Why not just take on the files too? There's no real maintainance to be done there. It's really not complicated. If we where to code the wiki ourselves, then we'd be screwed, but this software is made to be easy.
If only my hosting account got validated real quick and I could show you how awesome it is :D
Sure, bandwidth is a potential issue; but I do think the small OP community won't exceed 10GB (a month?)
If you hadn't said "I CHOSE MINE!", I'd have voted for the OPU wiki. Anyway, competition is good, and better content may arise.
Why the hell would I want to export data? Even in the remote possibility I really wanted to export/backup wiki pages, a simple script, even written in JavaScript, would do the trick. (Bandwidth isn't a problem, Wikia doesn't limit it)
The main 'thing' about wikis is content, information. If it is good and easly accessible, everything else is superfulous detail.
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Hm.. ok.
I just pm'ed Lev about this, and it's waiting for him right now before we take any further steps.
This was the proposal I sent to him:
I get server space here.
I create a wiki.
We create categories (I already have a raw draft in this thread somewhere).
We start filling it up, partly with data from the old wiki.
Users apply for an account, we approve them (I think we need a panel of approvers), they continue filling it up.
Once the new wiki is greater or equal to the old wiki, we replace it.
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Brazilian Fan its not about competition its about working together to make a good wiki for the community.
Everyone just needs user accounts on the current wiki and then you can edit/add to it.
If we are going to start a new wiki and move the data over and then phase out the old wiki we should host it on our domain and use MediaWiki as before.
What do people think? Work on a new one and get rid of the old one once we are happy all data is moved over or work with the current one?
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I vote to start a new one.
We don't even need to delete the old one.
@lev: see pm for more info
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Of course is not about competition, but competition may give rise to better content. The problem isn't accounts, but BlackBox disabled editing.
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i would also like to get a new one. thou, we should standerize it, but i think thats called templates. it be weird to actuually get the wiki done :P
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I'm ready to mark this topic as junk and not follow it anymore... Seriously, you came to an agreement two pages ago. Stop saying the same damn thing. Just WORK TOGETHER ON THE BLOODY WIKI.
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We're already working as we speak :)
The definitive wiki is currently being set up.
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Everyone just needs user accounts on the current wiki and then you can edit/add to it.
That's why we needed to delete the old one...
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Development on the new wiki is well underway, and we're hoping that with this new category-setup things will not get messy at all.
I just need to make a few rules and regulations regarding articles. Maybe even start to be picky in letting people join.
Hm.. I'm really starting to thing we should add article-validation..
Also, I need your help:
We have this category in the wiki, called 'modding', where all user-created stuff go.
This category is divided into 3 sub-category's: Mapping, Hacking, and.. well.. missioning.
Is there anyone who can think of a good replacement for 'missioning', that is ideally also made of 1 word?
(You know.. missioning.. when you program your own op2 missions)
In a scheme this time:
<Modding>
--<Mapping>
--<Hacking>
--<..mission_coding_mayhem..>
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yo know, you should put "Custom_Missions", and also rename "Hacking" just "mods", unless your explaining how to hack...
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yo know, you should put "Custom_Missions", and also rename "Hacking" just "mods", unless your explaining how to hack...
Do you know what's 'hack'?
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now i think i don't. btw, did you make the op2 page ur self, or copy and paste it?
Edit: n/m, i read the caption for the change. I will edit it further (make links work and such). very nice thou, i'm jelus :P
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Just for the record, I don't particularly mind if there is an external wiki. I figure a bit of healthy competition could be a good thing. I also don't mind if people would like more content hosted here. I'm a perhaps a bit limited in what I'm able to setup though.
I also have no idea how to unlock or otherwise administer the current wiki.
Actually, I was thinking of putting the web site, or at least parts of my revision of it into the public SVN. Then other people could add new pages, or edit things in the SVN. It wouldn't update the site, but you could check-in changes and send me a note so I could review the changes and publish them. The reviewing could also help keep it less spammy than the wiki got. Too much drive to publish things on it, without really thinking what should be on it doesn't seem to be such a good thing. The SVN does need accounts setup for write access though, and currently the website isn't in there.
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The new wiki is up and user registration is open.
newwiki.outpostuniverse.net (http://newwiki.outpostuniverse.net)
I hope we can make a successful community wiki. Have fun :)
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Now we have 3 wikis, but since Lev BLARUGHed the icon I say it automatically is disqualified from the new wiki competition.
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Lol, only two: OPU's and mine (AFAIK Spikerocks101 and AmIMeYet are only workingin the OPU's one). There's only slight differences between both, but content is essentially the same, so in the end there's only one.
Anywayz, it's better to have 3 wikis competing than one dying :P.
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Now we have 3 wikis, but since Lev BLARUGHed the icon I say it automatically is disqualified from the new wiki competition.
The logo is only temporary.
The idea is for the new wiki to replace the old one.
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hmm... BF dleted me edits with out asking...
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Sorry, but I did not check new edits, just overwritten it with a newer version.
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also, you need to fallow the catagories and stuff. I.e. its "Recource:Food", not just "Food" and stuff. Amimeyet has made some good orginization, so see if he made something before you add it.
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I should point out that the wiki Lev just tried to setup is only available under that one domain name. The other two domain names can't be used to get to it.
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also, you need to fallow the catagories and stuff. I.e. its "Recource:Food", not just "Food" and stuff. Amimeyet has made some good orginization, so see if he made something before you add it.
Yep, I know. I was in a rush and forgot to add the 'Resource:' prefix.
As I first write articles to Outpost EarthWiki, and then copy them to the new wiki, there's bound to exist some organization issues.
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Please note that adding the prefix is not enough.
For it to actually show up in the Resource category, you have to add:
as the first line.
And not even all category pages should include the category in their names.. (only those of subclasses of Game_Info.
I know, it's a bit confusing, but it realy makes the wiki more manageable and clear.
More info on this in the Best Practices (http://newwiki.outpostuniverse.net/Help:Best_Practice) page.
I already updated the food page and everything, but I still advise anyone (planning on) adding to the wiki to read the Best Practices.
This page also has some other examples and stuff.. It would really help if everyone read that. :)
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I think you should do a introduction for new users of the wiki for people who want to work on the wiki.
Something they can read that tells them how the wiki is set out, how to edit and work on it and what needs doing.
I think you should start by moving the data from the old wiki as there is a lot of it to the new. Thanks for the work so far :)
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Yeah, well.. I linked the best practices page on the main page. That page also includes an (albeit small) layout.
I'll see about adding a small message on _all_ the work that's left.
And yeah.. especially about importing the old info.
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sorry for not doing much last 3-4 days, i will restart tomorrow, hopefullt get the complete tech tree done.
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if the page I worked on is gone, it's gone. No way in hell am I going to try to track down all the old OP2 clan pages again
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The old wiki is still there CK9.
wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Old_Clan_List (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Old_Clan_List)
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hehe, I'll let others decide if it's worth putting on the rebuild
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I'll look in to it later.
I'll put it on a todo list, to atleast give a good look at it.
Definately not the highest priority though! :P
I haven't really worked a lot on the wiki either, and I'm currently reading through the whole story's again. Great writing, those stories, I've been reading all day, and I just can't stop B)
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Please please please, put this content on the wiki. It will do well for the community.
List of needed content:
-mapper files.
-greenworld files with instructions to install.
-codeblocks files with instructions to install.
-every colony game that is posted in the forums with credits and links to download in the forums.
-every new multiplayer map that can be patched, with credits and links to download
in the forums.
All of the above is files that need to be put on the wiki. It will make downloading needed files alot easier than just searching the forums.
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-every colony game that is posted in the forums with credits and links to download in the forums.
-every new multiplayer map that can be patched, with credits and links to download in the forums
Tested maps get released in subsequent versions of the op2 package from the download link.
Before then it is up to the map maker to publicise the maps on the forum.
Perhaps when we get the wiki working you can link to the file forums/ links in the file forums containing the user made content?
Greenworld was on the old wiki, As were mapper instructions (no idea how upto date they were).
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the green world and mapper on the wiki were infact the only working ones and were up to date. I bet my cookies even Th300 uses that mapper.
What we need noow is for a site administrator to link the wiki and mapper download on the home page to make it easier. This is not asking alot, simply copy and paste links onto the home page. I hope Hooman puts a download of the mapper on the front page instead of a link to a forum thread filled with irrelevent trash that nobody needs for downloading the mapper.
Hvaing dead links on the main site is not a good thing.
I am not trying to sound demanding or anything. Im simply reminding everyone of my concern with more detail.
So please fix the mapper link on the homepage, it can't be that hard.
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Hehehehe... I find it hilarious that Lord of Pain, of all people, is complaining about "trashy" posts when that's the only type of post he's capable of writing (assuming "trashy" means "spammy").
Regardless: The old wiki is a titanic piece of garbage. I don't see why you want it back so badly. You want a link to OP2Mapper. What does the wiki have to do with that? We can put that anywhere. You want a link to the latest version of Greenworld? The wiki never had that. It had an old version. Mcshay's site (now down, to my knowledge) had that.
PS: How many times do I have to get this link for you? (http://www.outpostuniverse.net/files/mapper2_2_1.exe) The irony is, of course, that you'll never find it because you've spammed the topic with "irrelevent trash" (sic).
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Your clearly avoiding my point. My point is we need a link for the mapper, not in the forums, but in the main page/home page where it used to be. Or it could be put in the new wiki along with the greenworld.
so please stop placing links in the wrong section of this website, it only confuses people who are not as experianced as you.
So please, think of others befor you want to remove somthing.
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lop, just download the file you need and let the site admins deal with link placement. You've been given the link to the mapper, if you need it use it. Most people who want to use it will find it very fast using a simple forum search, which they should know how to do if they've spent any time using the internet at all.
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Before this carries on any further, I should point out the link on the website was fixed days ago.
There is a direct download from the files section, rather than a link to a dead wiki article.
Edit: I should also point out that fixing the wiki is turning out to be a pain in the butt, and is perhaps not likely to happen. Instead, if you want a resource available, it can be placed on the website, which I've been suggesting for a while now.
Which btw, reminds me that the website is in the SVN. If the link bothered you so much, you could have fixed it yourself and then posted there was an update to be pushed to the site.
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tisk, tisk, tisk Hooman. Such expectations (Not that it's bad to have high expectations).
Not even I would attempt to modify those files without ample knowledge of what I was doing. And I don't believe I would know what to do if I were to try. And if it involves some learning, it's more comfortable to ask someone who supposedly already knows than to learn.
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The files are just in the SVN. Any updates would have to be manually pushed to the site (i.e., I would download the updates from the SVN locally, check them over to make sure they make sense and are correct, and then I would manually upload them to the site). The SVN tracks revision authors and dates, and lets you easily undo changes and revert to a previous revision. So, go ahead and hack away, even if you don't really know what your doing. It's just a bunch of HTML files really. Besides, no one else will even see it unless you commit the changes, so you can always at least try stuff locally and see how it goes. If you don't like the changes, or they failed horribly, you can just delete your local copy, and nobody will ever know.