Outpost Universe Forums
Projects & Development => GORF => Hall of Fame => Topic started by: Betaray on July 13, 2006, 06:31:37 PM
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Many of the older concepts for op3 have included a 3rd ore type, called heavy, it would be used to build the most advanced buildings and vec's including the lion superheavy chassis
from the inital pictures showing it the beacons would be a neon green color and the mines would produce half as much as a rare mine of the same yeld, (same as a rare produces half as much as a common of the same yeld)
will this third type of ore be in op3, or do you think having 3 differnt types of ore would be too difficult to work with?
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Many of the older concepts for op3 have included a 3rd ore type, called heavy, it would be used to build the most advanced buildings and vec's including the lion superheavy chassis
from the inital pictures showing it the beacons would be a neon green color and the mines would produce half as much as a rare mine of the same yeld, (same as a rare produces half as much as a common of the same yeld)
will this third type of ore be in op3, or do you think having 3 differnt types of ore would be too difficult to work with?
It woudln't be hard to work with, just well....... I"m not sure if it would correspond to the resources on the planet(s). What is it made up of?
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I wouldn't call it heavy ore - thatd make it sound like iron or something, which is common. It'd probably only be available from salvaged meteors or something, so maybe Spatial Ore? Extraterrestrial Ore?
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meteorites are almost completely nothing more than iron, silicon, quartz and iridium.
and comets are the above only with ice, usually co2 (dry) ice with regular water ice interspersed.
so weird elements with strange properties wouldnt really make any sense unless youre superman.
i think common and rare covers the metals just fine so why not try for something else like crystal or WATER or some type of gas?
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meteorites are almost completely nothing more than iron, silicon, quartz and iridium.
and comets are the above only with ice, usually co2 (dry) ice with regular water ice interspersed.
so weird elements with strange properties wouldnt really make any sense unless youre superman.
i think common and rare covers the metals just fine so why not try for something else like crystal or WATER or some type of gas?
Crystal sounds good - used in electronics? Reminds me of OGame....
Water!? What is this, Dark Reign? :P :find:
3 Types of ore is good IMHO (thumbsup)
Edit: Damn emoticons...
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OH!!!!!!! I read in an article that one day we may have processors made from synthetic diamond or something. Can you imagine how much faster that may be? I think maybe having diamonds classed under crystals would help. maybe have some sort of an upgrade to RCC AI and all that good stuff. Anything that uses AI, to be upgraded, you need X number of crystal ore.
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I've always been opposed to adding more ore/resources, and I still am.
A third ore would just make the game harder than it needs to be.
Let's not lie to ourselves: rare ore is hard enough to get. It's either really crappy or right outside your enemy's base.
"Heavy ore" or "crystal ore" (I'll shoot something if we call it either of those) would just make things worse.
And we already have six resources anyways:
Common Ore
Rare Ore
Colonists
Power
Food
Morale
Do we really need a seventh?
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OH!!!!!!! I read in an article that one day we may have processors made from synthetic diamond or something. Can you imagine how much faster that may be? I think maybe having diamonds classed under crystals would help. maybe have some sort of an upgrade to RCC AI and all that good stuff. Anything that uses AI, to be upgraded, you need X number of crystal ore.
We do have diamonds in lasers for CD players and stuff...LoL i remember my friend once ripped apart a CD player we found in the street to get at the diamond lens, then we found out it only needed batteries to work fine - until he tore it apart LoL
Anyways, sirbomber has a point - we've got enough resources to keep track of. And btw, we do already have a seventh - Command Center connections via tubes!
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But tubes don't show up under the resources report.
Oh well, I think the point's been made that we don't need more resources.
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Chandler: i play ogame, universe 14 ;)
we already have a working prototype laser computer that uses crystal to store data solid state. two lasers meet at a point within a cube of crystal and it counts as one bit. 1 cube the size of a wallet could potentially store trillions of kilobytes.
also, quantum computing is evolving very rapidly. i think the worlds first quantum "hello world!" was output in a lab a few months ago.
ANYWAY, i really think 2 ore types are fine. if you wanted to go into justifying how colonists get food, air, water, etc.... youd have to add a dozen resource types which makes op2 more like sim city and totally unplayable. for the purposes of the game 2 ore types are satisfactory.
NO VESPENE GAS!!!!
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The problem with making diamond is it requires huge amounts of power. And you dont mine for these diamond you make then from Carbon with is heated and pressed at the same time. Mining for Crystal SOUNDS a bit to much like SC.
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ya and the manufactured diamonds are of very poor quality compared to genuine.
i think some ppl with older computers and a copy of star craft or warcraft 3 have been having some very vivid dreams. the thing we like about op2 is that it isnt sc or wc3. we dont want it to resemble them either. suggestions and ideas are great but the day convecs are called SCV's and i have to mine vespene gas is the day i stop playing.
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Insufficient vespene gas. :evil laugh:
Why would OP2 need gas anyways? They use cold fussion or whatever it's called. (I is teknekul)
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Less is more! No?
I think two are fine as, like mentioned, there are plently of other resources to keep track of.
IF it does make it in game, it could be used for something non-construction related. Perhaps it could be used to upgrade buildings (upgradeable buildings.. hmmm), or it could be something that is consumed over time, like food, and grants a bonus while it is being consumed.
Really tho it isn't needed.
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or, if you are keeping the starship building tradition of outpost, use it for that only
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Yeah, I'd rather have it somewhat limited so that it doesn't make the game TOO complex too fast.
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One reason I have FOR a new ore type is for control of higher technology - another resource that you need to both research and mine to be able to build higher technology items, one that is rarer than rare ore.
Q - are the mine's going to be depleteable or unlimited in OP3 ?
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I always thought it was kinda weard that lynx was the only combat chassis that didnt require rare, once you have rare you can have panthers and tigers
which also brings the point of why panthers are rarely used, if you can build panthers, you can build tigers
I was thinking, if there is no superheavy "lion" chassis, tigers could require this new ore, so common for lynx, common and rare for panthers, and all 3 to make a tiger, so that if you have just common and rare you can only build panthers and not tigers
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Maybe, or maybe just make tigers more expensive, so that panthers see some use, and people think twice about just making 1000 of tigers and rape everything.
And I would hope unlimited, the OP2 system works fine, although it would continue to go down even lower, and force you to go find new resources instead of just continuing with the depleted mine you have.
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Um no the problem with the Panthers is the speed. Speed means alot on combat but so does brute force and armor. Panther As they stand now are a medium fighter one barrel turret that seem to do the same damage as a lynx not sure there. Any way People dont use the panther because it doesn fit the criteria of what they need. Its to slow for speed it has armor but not the same amount of a tiger with has dual guns. when it comes down to it the panther is a misfit because its born that way. They can be used people just need to start using them. Making the tiger research futher out doesnt solve the problem of the panther because people will just use Lynx till they get the tiger because they have speed. Then mass the Tigers because they are the "Doombringers".
Lynx = speed, Tigers = armor and damage, Panthers = Medium speed and armor making it a excellent patrol unit in my opinion.
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its simple economics.
Lynx = Cheap, fast, 1 barrel
Panther = Almost as expensive as Tigers, slow, 1 barrel
Tiger = Expensive, really slow, 2 barrel
Lynx are weak but fast and cheap so they can be replaced in battle easily. Tigers are expensive but make up for their price and slowness with armor and firepower. In a pitched battle, people are either trying to spam their enemy with lynx or roll over them with tigers. Panthers were probably included in the game as a stop-gap measure between classes. This can be seen readily in the campaign. In many of the later scenarios the player starts out wiht a number of structures, units and researched items. It usually isnt very far off to research Panthers and most of the time your base is under constant seige. In these instances, panthers do make the difference because their research is so close to being complete and their lifespan is greater than the lynx. In such scenarios Panthers do make a difference, but in multiplayer people either try to win ASAP by spamming lynx or crushing with tigers.
Just because people make a conscious decition NOT to use panthers doesnt mean there is a flaw in the game. They have their uses and a valuable place in the campaign. In multiplayer, people simply choose to otherlook them and save their resources for more lynx or research toward tigers.
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What would a super heavy chassis be? and what comes after that? Ultra Mega Chassis? Amazingly enough, OP2 (and hopefully OP3) are not Total Annihilation clones. Yeah having a Krogoth that stands taller than most buildings, walks around blasting everything with arm-cannons is cool but that kind of stuff isnt for the Outpost "universe". It doesnt fit into the story or gameplay, and would be pointless in a sequel. Wouldnt it be more prudent to just introduce an entirely new type of unit and not just a bigger tiger? Its too formulaic and amateurish. Why not have AIRCRAFT of some kind? Perhaps simply atmospheric gliders, probes or drones that drop a couple bombs or have some sort of laser that does moderate damage? You have to remember that everything in Outpost (especially weapons) is cobbled together from the bits of what was supposed to be a peaceful mission. The Tiger is the best evolution of a weapons platform and is basically a tank. We havent come up with anything better than a tank in real life, except for aircraft. And I imagine in the Outpost universe it is likely that any combat aircraft would be a modified scientific drone. (think army UAV's) The most advanced of which wouldnt be like anything we have in real life since it would have to be built using what they have available. I imagine the largest they could build would be about the size of a lynx not counting wingspan. Maybe that is more plausible?
~~ Sorry my posts get so long, but I find it better to explain thouroughly once than clarifying a dozen times later.
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The planet that there one make a difference for Aircraft. Is there a atmosphere? What kind of Atmosphere. Low or Hi pressure?
I am sure some one will speak of super magnet levitation. Is there the tech to keep a object down around the temps to keep some thing levitated? remember it takes liquid nitrogen to make a hockey puck float on magnets. and that doesnt float very high and its useing magnets made by man nothing like field found on a planet.
the problem with aircraft is there lynx that fly. they can just mass build them and run straight to the CC but on a direct line and able to avoid stuff alot better.
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its simple economics.
Lynx = Cheap, fast, 1 barrel
Panther = Almost as expensive as Tigers, slow, 1 barrel
Tiger = Expensive, really slow, 2 barrel
ing a dozen times later.
So to make the Panther see some use, either make the Panthers slightly cheaper, or the Tiger slightly more expensive.
And btw, if you compare a Laser Lynx, a Laser GP, and a Laser Panther's costs, and do the math, a Lynx with no weapon costs roughly 50 common, a Panther costs 150 common and 125 rare, and I forget how much the Tiger costs. A Lynx cheaper than a Scout? IMO this will need to be rectified somehow.
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funny thing is, with the hp upgrade the common cost for panthers and lynx are the same, the only difference is that panthers cost 150 rare, which as long as you've got it is mainly a non issue (for me at least even with a 1 bar rare and a 3 bar common, i always seem to run out of common before rare)
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And btw, if you compare a Laser Lynx, a Laser GP, and a Laser Panther's costs, and do the math, a Lynx with no weapon costs roughly 50 common, a Panther costs 150 common and 125 rare, and I forget how much the Tiger costs. A Lynx cheaper than a Scout? IMO this will need to be rectified somehow.
I have different values:
Lynx: 300 common
Panther: 400 common, 125 rare -> 300 common, 150 rare
Tiger: 750 common, 250 rare
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How do you come up with that?
Laser GP = 700 common
Laser Lynx = 750 common
750-700=50 common
Unarmed Lynx = 50 common
Scout = 250 common
Scout > Lynx
????
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How do you come up with that?
Laser GP = 700 common
Laser Lynx = 750 common
750-700=50 common
Unarmed Lynx = 50 common
Scout = 250 common
Scout > Lynx
????
can't remember, I found it in some old notes.
Consider that the laser GP's cost isn't only the weapon's cost.
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Lynx dont come with out turrets and the GP turrets seem to be different or bigger plus the you have to build there platform. The Lynx itself woundnt be 50. There is just a 50 cost difference.
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I know that Lynx don't come without turrets, I'm just saying, if you built one. But you have a good point with that GP having its own cost thing.
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The lynx costs 50 more because it needs more moving parts, and therefore more computer and motor components
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Any way this was about Heavy Ore.
The way to think about the ore in Outpost2 is that Common ore is your light metals and non gas elements that you can get from the ground.
And Rare ore would be your heavy metals and non gas elements and rare earth elements (Ones that werent created in a particle accelerator).
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The Lynx chassis costs 300 common ore, no turrets.
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and how did you figgure that out?
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In Outpost2 is that Common ore is your light metals and non gas elements that you can get from the ground.
And Rare ore would be your heavy metals and non gas elements and rare earth elements.
Then why not some sort of gas? Maby Xenon? Im shure we could come up with a use for Xenon. Maby a medical use? Or prehaps in some way of constructing or in factories?
Of couse we have to reaserch it. It could be called Xenon extraction. With a specal unit like a GeoCon that deploys over a Xenon thing (insert better name here) and would have the Gas be shiped in a specaly modifed Cargo Tanker thing (insert better name here) and have its own seperate structure like the smelters the refines the gas into a pure state.
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No gas there is no need for gas extraction for a few reasons
1. this isnt star craft
2. where the hell does xenon even come from
3. resources in a game are used through out the entirity of the colony power works scis and food. Ore is used to make new buildings which are esential. A gas mine for just medical is a waste of time power and workers.
4. the GEO Con is used on Geo Thermal vents (fuma roles) its not a collector of any kind.
Heavy ore was originaly thought up for production of new weapons say like the Falinginding assualt laser lol.
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its poisonis inst it? Why dont we make a kind of unit that can dock in an enemy base and realese large amounts of it?
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Xenon i think you might be thinging about RADON. And i believe that only certain Natually occuring Isotopes are dangerous other wise the gas is to heavy for some one to breath
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Realy? Then what about posioning the plants in the agidome?
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Realy? Then what about posioning the plants in the agidome?
poisening is not an option. The last humans don't want to kill each other.
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Then why are the fighting and not at peace? Why do they attack each others bases? Why do they have weapons period?
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Then why are the fighting and not at peace? Why do they attack each others bases? Why do they have weapons period?
Play the Outpost2 campaign and read the novella. Then you'll know.
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The Vecs arent piloted by people there all Boptronic Computers controlled at the CC and/or RCC. Or in the cause of the blight infested Vecs there optronic due to the damage they received.
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Yes but people are in the buildings and they destroy buildings.
I had a new idea for the ore. We could call it Obison Ore. Since all of the nown ore is taken by common and rare why not have them discover a new ore type?
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Why not just call the ore Bithium ore. In all concepts Bithium is an ore composed of elements that are not found naturally on earth. Like promethium.
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This thread pretty much ended last September, I really don't want to read a repeat of this again
--Thread locked--