Outpost Universe Forums
Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Multiplayer => Topic started by: leeor_net on July 28, 2005, 10:06:02 AM
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I've recently entered into a few games with other users on mIRC. So far, Stormy has been the only one to understand that I havn't played in many years and thus am extremely 'rusty' in the game.
What I don't understand is why when I say that I'm completely n00b that some people say 'ok' and then set the game to ultra-fast mode and then rape me with thor's hammer's on Tiger chasis when I still only have laser lynx's... and this is less than 10 minuts into the game.
I've also watched a few of the videos from several players and it scares me how fast one has to click around the screen in order to have a chance at success.
The problem I have is that I don't find it fun in the slightest to engage in a race of who has the better location and who can click the fasted. It's not fun. And to be destroyed after only a few minuts of play, and not just taken out, I mean having the floor wiped with *ME*.
It's this sort of thing that makes me not want to have anything to do with OP2 anymore... and it's one of my absolute favorite games. It's not a pleasant feeling and I thought I would make people aware that there are players out there that are either new to the game or who don't want to do the click race.
On a positive note, it's good to see the number of users on Hamachi (IRC seems deadish).
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I don't like that most games are about speed either. But there's a rather simple solution: set gamespeed to 5 (or even slower). I didn't ever play at speed over 5 before my first multi-game against Leviathan and enjoyed it more than I do now.
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You know... posts like this are slowly starting to annoy me. People are constantly posting about how they are not fast enough AND THEN BLAME OTHERS!
I mean, I understand you like slower games, and are a bit rusty, but there is no reason to whine about it on the forums.
If you want to have an attack mark, or certain game speed, discuss it with the ones your playing with! It get's annoying hearing constant complaints on the forum! Most players that I have played with have the descensy to follow the rules that are agreed upon. I've heard many other players say that they like slower games too, why not try to set up a game with them instead?
sorry if I sounded rude, but I am kinda tired of hearing this over and over...
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The style of games i like to play SOOOOOO much better than rush, is the LONG ones lasting past mark 1000 or more. You can have a MASSIVE battle, and everyone has a chance to play, and help make a difference (if its a team game).. regardless of their speed..
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My point in posting this, Sl0vi, is simply this:
I would explain that I am rusty and do not like the click races. The other player would say fine and whatnot. Then the game speed would be changed to 10. I would change it back to five and it would go back to ten.
When I would leave the game because of this, and then I'M the one who's being a sore loser.
I said it on IRC to Panther, and I'll say it again. I don't like not being able to play fast and when someone says they'll play on a level of 5 or even 6, they refuse to and set the game to 10 anyway. Then, when I ask about it, I'm just a noob, which I'm aware of anyway.
It's NOT FUN. Either play the way you want with others who are either 1) willing to take it or 2) play just as fast. Otherwise, if somebody, or better yet, if *I* say that I don't want to play fast, find another player who will and don't get frustrated when you wnat a game and the player you're playing against thinks you're pushing it.
As far as attack marks are concerned, that's just dumb. I never liked that, even back in the SIGS days.
And you know what? I havn't heard this particular concern before. I guess you could say that I'm complaining. Maybe I am. But you know what, this is a very good reason why so many people don't WANT to play. Again, I absolutely love OP2. It's easily one of my favorite games. But it's just getting wrecked for me because every time I want to play multiplayer games, I'm the one the floor is being wiped with.
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Welcome to my world, leeor... I got sick of the rush crap, and haven't played in such a while... Granted I've been working on programming a map, but still. Rush only games are incredibly annoying. If you catch me on a good day, I'll play a nice, slow game with you. Space Race if you want it to be, can even be allied for it if ya want... (I do like to harrass in space race)
The only rushing I do is against Eden when I'm Plymouth, for obvious reasons... (Thor is simply too powerful to let anyone have)
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Heh, people underestimate large map landrushes.
Ask Stormy :P
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Some people like to play as fast as they can and some people dont, some people enjoy long games and some people dont.
Because we dont have that many players when you able to play only fast players may be on, like Panther or me. All you can do is just play people who want to play long games with you. have fun
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Agreed. It would appear that I'm not the only one that likes longer games. I am very eager to really get back into good 'ol OP2 (reminds me much of AoE, I LOVE that game!!) :)
Anyways, I just need to vent I guess. It seemed to me that everybody wanted to play on ultra speed and that anyone who wanted to play slower were expected to play fast. I'm glad I was wrong ;)
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There are many players and many game styles and types beening played. Play OP2 not other crap games like AoE! :P
Oh yea, don't play with me if your looking for a long game
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yeah, typical levi right there....lol.
i don't play the rush games on pie b/c they are so 'scripted'.....hell, you could write a simple ai for it and it would dominate. all pie really is is how fast you can pull off a series of instructions.....no variation.
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Very true. I've been tempted to try out that idea actually. But, there are slight bits of knowledge missing, and I'm a bit too lazy/busy to do it. Plus there are a ton of other things people seem to want me to work on instead.
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i prefer slow and long game because you can have a better micro on your unit
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Sadly enough i agree with most of those about op2 game speed. I joined the multiplayer back in mid july and it is a great game but the games i did play i couldnt keep up with and i start to get frustrated. I have played probably only a half dozen games on hamachi and i realized multi isnt as fun as i once remembered it to be.
Im not even really a noob, i have a very good grasp of the game, and i still cant seem to win any games or even come close. The game doesnt need to be 2 hours, but it doesnt need to last 10 minutes either. I wish it would be at 7 and thats it.
I have stopped playing multi for this reason, sadly enough i found more fun playing the colony games on op2. It doesnt have to be god awful slow but it doesnt need to be at the speed of light either.
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My sentiments exactly. For a little while I thought I was crazy. I was chewed out by quite a few people about it.
You know, that happens to me a lot. This is one I don't think should have happened but either way. Many of the other times I've been roasted is because I do things differently than most people and I like to take initiative. I've learned that sometimes I just need to calm myself.
Anyway, point stands. I'm glad to see support on this one.
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i like slow game so if you want to play one day just wack me up on irc (thumbsup)
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ugh i dont like pie becous its a series of instructions as said ... but slow games i always end up with a combinasion of uniets and ore that the last minuits ofthe game r just decided of who followed the instructions in the biggining the best and has a brain.
it comes down to this ... i dont like pie cous its to fast and i dont like slow cous the end always sucks >.> but i cant understand why they think the end is the most fun part of the game :D
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I also third or w/e the opionon of Leoor...I mean its just no fun to have the SAME old tactics, SAME old path to CONQUER THE QUICKEST, or even SAME OLD BASE PATTERN...it just takes the fun out...then it becomes a match of who can click more and more and who can MEMORIZE best the FASTEST WAY to get the RUSH weapons up - then it becomes boring - thats why I like TA...it isn't so simple...although OP2 is easily on the same level of favorites :)!
Just to say, its no fun for majority of us...maybe for the minority top people...
:(
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i have to side with leeor on this.
OP2 isn't a C&C game.
its true that in all games the one who can react fastest will have an advantage, but i always liked the chess-like feel of op2.
true i play on highest speed cos i just don't like sitting around waiting for structures/research to be completed or for enough metals to be mined, but i still feel that people shouldn't rush the game just cos they want to win.
yeh, i agree the aim is to win, but i find it hard to believe that doing the same 10 min thor rush over and over can be fun after so many times.
i dunno about anyone else, but i also like to build my base - and i'd almost never attack 1st in a resource/midas/space game (even if it appears that my opponent is about to win, cos that's just cheap and sore-loser-ish).
when i had my friends round here from the US, we played a lil OP2, and even though i knew the research trees and he didn't, i still didn't go for the 10-15 min game of slaughtering him. (besides big tank battles can be fun, especially when you slip a nova into their lines when they aren't looking ^_^ .)
anywho, thats my opinion about this.
would that i could, i'd play online for fun rather then to conquer.
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I also third or w/e the opionon of Leoor...I mean its just no fun to have the SAME old tactics, SAME old path to CONQUER THE QUICKEST, or even SAME OLD BASE PATTERN...it just takes the fun out...then it becomes a match of who can click more and more and who can MEMORIZE best the FASTEST WAY to get the RUSH weapons up - then it becomes boring - thats why I like TA...it isn't so simple...although OP2 is easily on the same level of favorites :)!
Just to say, its no fun for majority of us...maybe for the minority top people...
:(
heh, TA is a great game... until ppl start nuke spamming.
my point is - even that game has people who don't like holding back on taking advantage of a certain aspect of the game.
(after all in TA, the speed of the click isn't as decisive as it is in op2)
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the above post are pretty much what i think. amps like pie and earlobe just get boring b/c there is only *one* way to do things if u dont want ur ass pwned a few minutes into the game. its v annoying to me, altho it would be a interesting experiment to make a 'ai' for pie....and the problem w/ that is, its unbeatable. all pie is is how fast u can pull off a series of clicks.
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That's why we need more missions that people would be willing to play.
The best would be maps where it's possible to play at any speed (one mission, play as fast or as slow as you want)
One thing; big maps tend to be less fun to play as they take FOREVER just to begin to setup your base, etc.
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I've read all these post and they make me sad. I just joined OPU a few days ago after finding it on the net(it's one of my all time favorites) and I haven't played online since sigs either, so I'm a little rusty as well. It's disparing to hear that OP2 has turned into a speed race like Starcraft or C&C. I'm Definetely, DEFINETELY siding with leeor on this one. Nice long games, Getting to know little tricks or even something new from your opps is always a good game. Call me up on IRC anytime!
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I remember one of the greatest, yet cheapest, moves ever! Just when the game began, my opponent sent all of his vehicles in except his robothingermabob (the one that builds walls and tubes) and destroyed all of my vehciles by self-destructing his near mine. Then he too his thingermabob and disconnected all the tubes from my CC. I'll tell you, the game lasted only 5 minuts but it was one of the sweetest moves I've ever seen!
Another time I was playing with a friend of mine. He had green and I was white. We were playing on a relatively large map. As I built my units I spread them around the map to look like mining locations. He had no idea what was lurking in the dark for him! :D Anyway, I won that game but he put up a nice fight. He mentioned to me that he didn't build too many vehicles because he didn't realize how many I had until it was too late.
Those were the times, those were the times!
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There are not many players still around so id say at least half the time you play someone you have not played before they will be someone who likes to play fast, and if you dont play that way you probly wont enjoy it.
Before you play a game, find out what its gonna be like and how good the other players are then you wont be supprised.
Ask around, find the right people to play with, its often good to partner up with someone to play with and play many games with them which you both enjoy.
Were all here to enjoy OP2, and together is the best way.
If you like OP2 and wanna keep playing it, you should not be put off by people not playing how you like or want or the lack of players or whatevea. If you realy liked OP2 you would stick with it and be part of the comunity and not leave at all.
We need more players and members, people who like the game giving up on it dosnet help.
Rember be friendly.
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Hey im with leeor_net. Sometimes the games aren't just long enough. I'll play you leeor! just pick the game speed:P. also, is there a way to build an option into the multi game setup screen that locks the game speed? like to go no higher than 6 for example. just a thought....
EDIT: wb levi!
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does anyone here play homeworld 2? that game is similar to op2 in that it is a low-profile game, small community but with really great merits. the problem is that players reduce the game to how well one has their build order memorized. ive never found this fun. so i started making maps for the game using community-made dev tools. the object is to FORCE all players into a non-combat position. force all players to focus on building their base, not their rush build order. i know its fun to get the adrenaline from a fast-paced rush but alot of the truely great parts of op2 are lost in this activity. someone needs to make some custom maps that have a single major choke point so that nobody can easily speed an entire screen of tigers into an enemy base. there is no other way to prevent game-ending rushes than to but an obstacle in the way. unless we want to add features to the game (which i find impossible) that would physically prohibit tanks from moving across a specified area. Someone needs to experiment with lava flows and see if they can maybe create flood plains that fill with lava after a certain mark that create multiple choke points. something to deter rushes. does anyone remember the term "backstab" from the days of WON? for those of you who dont, the common practice was to set a mark to build til and then send out all your amassed forces and fight. most of the players around then would backstab by rushing you WAY before the previously specified mark. is this a practice that has survived to OPU?
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i forgot to mention that im the "colony builder" around here. i hate rush games and will usually quit when i find out that is the gametype. i generally like playing for at least 4-5 hours and focus entirely on building a massive base. i think as though i have no opponent on the map and build as though i have nothing to worry about and i advise those im playing with to do the same. you ever want to play a match like this, pm me or find me in irc. im usually always there.
keep in mind tho, most people around here are used to rushes and if you monitor their base, youll notice their building choice seems to learn toward that of a rush game. if you get into a situation where you are unsure if your opponent is building all those veh facts "just in case" or if they are building up to attack, you might fall into a trap where you match their forces, they match yours and so on until you are so paranoid that you launch an attack when neither player planned or desired.
.... what im saying is, communicate with all opponents. be blunt and ask "hey, wtf are all those veh facts for?" or "no, i dont need my base trimmed by thors"
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I play homeworld 2 "but I just have the demo right now" and so does Baikon and one other I think.
I have only been able to play one game online of OP2 but I have always liked the games were you build for a long time then do small battles increasing the size of the fighting slowly until you are fighting for your life are something :P
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I play homeworld 2 "but I just have the demo right now" and so does Baikon and one other I think.
I have only been able to play one game online of OP2 but I have always liked the games were you build for a long time then do small battles increasing the size of the fighting slowly until you are fighting for your life are something :P
well then we should play sometime. im the king of long-winded games!
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yea as soon as I get my router working we should do a game :)
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Leeor- I'm right there with you man
Horus - Ditto
Haters - I don't hear ya'. I can't stand people that want to click a bazillion times per second, and own everyone. If I can have a huge-ass base, and be at the unit limit with my vehicles, and with mining outposts and stuff all over the map- that's cool IMO. I like the feel of owning a small town or whatever, It's hard to explain, but rush games get rid of all that. I mean the rush people around here seem to play games just to get it over with. When you sit through a 2-3 hour game and finally face-off your enemy with HUGE numbers of units in strategic locations, and with defense outposts built to defend your base, or vehicle factories built miles away from your base just to keep a constant flow of units in the battle, you can own a army of Hundreds (ok however many the unit limit is) of units, it's a cool feeling. Like driving a Maserati, just without the hundreds of horsepower.
You get the point- and if you don't, you don't have to- it's just cool.
Horus- we gotta play sometime.
Panda
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Baikon will hate me, but I played a colony game without him. :D
It was kick ass. (thumbsup) It's fun to dig in a build walls 3 tiles thick around most of your base. It's also fun to play with EMP missiles, although, probably not so much for the other person. :whistle:
That, and I think I've come across a little secret about EMP, and it's possible destructive power, that I always thought didn't happen. I have yet to look into it yet though. (Idea based on some code I've seen). Still probably not all that useful though. :unsure:
Btw, I hit both the building limit and the vehicle limit in that game. From the scores list at the end, I'd built less than 100 of each. :( But hey, it was a 4 player game. :)
Think I can use any more smilies? (thumbsup) :heh: :P
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Yeah, I completely agree. I've never played OP2 online but its like that for most Strategy games. I have the game speed way down and that helps a bit, but its always better to get someone of the same mind and ability to play with.
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Unlike you ppl that love playing slow games, I just don't like being forced to wait until mark 1600 before anything starts happening. I've played games that have reached that mark and gone beyond, but usually because the game survived beyond the rush phase of the game.
There are some maps already where the games often turn out to last for a long time, mostly on big maps, people just need to learn how to survive in the early stages of the game.
As for game speed, I myself prefer having it at 6, unless ofcourse if someone is lagging :P It's not too slow, but you don't have to be a "super-clicker" either. And no annoying attack marks :P
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Problem solved. More or less.
I made a techtree that will prevent all rushing except scout rushing/etc. Just don't play with people that use those tactics though. <_<
Anyways, it makes Laser/Mic research require a blank tech that you can't normally research. That way who(m?)ever is making the dll can set the mark that you get the tech at.
In other words, if I'm making a mission I can make it so you can't research Lasers/Mics (not even GPs) until mark X.
I thought it was a great idea, but tell me if I should bother making maps for it or not and what kind they should be (player #s, gametypes, maps used, etc.).
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yeah, that would just lead to a race of who can get most vec facs and mining operations going, so he can quickly storm the enemy at that mark. That's just a new kind of rush :/
Besides, I don't see why you should force an attack mark on people. I think most people that want to play with attack marks are quite capable of coming to an agreement themselves, and sticking to that agreement.
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Frankly, if you don't or can't understand it, you never will. You're stubborn and refuse to stray from the "philosophy" of "Whoever has the biggest guns by Mark 50 wins". But I'll explain anyways or you'll call me a/n (insert generic insult here).
If you can't research weapons then it isn't a rush to get the most weapons BEFORE the attack mark, it's a rush to get the most weapons after. The No-Weapons Research Mark allows people to have a more laid-back OP2 experience instead of the click-race we're all used to. If you can't research guns until mark 200 then it guarentees that you don't need to worry about getting attacked until then. Also, this way everybody starts out more balanced. It allows people who might not be good at getting scientists/etc more time to research things, allows them to get more ore, build more vec facs, etc. It gives people who might not be good at some aspects of the game to get a little more even with the better players. It reduces the race to click things faster than the other guy.Think: which is a better idea?
1) Normal AM - People spend all the money before the AM building lots of Lynx/etc and researching only what they need to get the best army. People rush to get ore, vec facs, etc. Little/no attention is payed to the large OP2 techtree if it doesn't get you guns, or better vecs, or lets you build thinngs faster, or get more ore, or train more people...
2) No-Weapons Mark - People can research non-weapons related techs and concentrate on building the colony and population. It would be great for games with morale on. People can concentrate on building reses and meds instead of building lots of guns. People can actually have VARIATIONS of build/research orders. People can build WHAT they want WHEN they want instead of the "pre-set" orders we all know. With the AM you still have to deal with that huge army your opponent has. With this, nobody can have any armies until everyone else can.
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Sounds good :)
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I understand it, I never said I didn't. But unlike you, I just see it a little differently.
The thing is, when you reach that mark, it's all about researching the tech asap. Then mass producing units. Which also means, that the time before that mark is gonna be about getting as many vec facs and mining ops going as possible. So that you can just quickly outproduce your opponents. As I said, a new kind of rush, not a rush after weapons, but PRODUCTION.
Bases won't have any real defences either, because you couldn't research weapons, which means no GP's. This is possible in attack marked games, because players can research weapons tech. Well fortified bases are painful to crack, trust me, I've been playing against Tellaris alot lately, and he's very good at fortifying his base.
I only see this idea working in large maps, like ATW. Where simply the possible distance between the players, helps buy some extra time.
edit - By the way, you should try playing some unmarked games with morale on. You also get to research alot of techs you normally don't then.
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Morale steady/unsteady doesn't affect the research tree. Only affects production speed (morale fluctuations).
Newbies need to be able to develop an effective multiplayer strategy for themselves (reading a build order tutorial doesn't really help, they have to figure out exactly what to do, when to do it, and how to do it as quickly as possible), and they don't really get any chance when they're being blown to pieces when they've just started building an advanced lab.
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it doesn't affect the tech tree, but there are alot of techs based upon morale, that you have no need to research when it's turned off.
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Just wait untill I have all my tutorials finished. Then you can practice playing multi without the ego crushing effect of looseing to someone on irc
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i forgot to mention that im the "colony builder" around here. i hate rush games and will usually quit when i find out that is the gametype. i generally like playing for at least 4-5 hours and focus entirely on building a massive base. i think as though i have no opponent on the map and build as though i have nothing to worry about and i advise those im playing with to do the same. you ever want to play a match like this, pm me or find me in irc. im usually always there.
keep in mind tho, most people around here are used to rushes and if you monitor their base, youll notice their building choice seems to learn toward that of a rush game. if you get into a situation where you are unsure if your opponent is building all those veh facts "just in case" or if they are building up to attack, you might fall into a trap where you match their forces, they match yours and so on until you are so paranoid that you launch an attack when neither player planned or desired.
.... what im saying is, communicate with all opponents. be blunt and ask "hey, wtf are all those veh facts for?" or "no, i dont need my base trimmed by thors"
just like the cold war.
each side ramps up to match a potential threat till it spins outta control