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Projects & Development => Projects => Topic started by: Leviathan on January 27, 2005, 04:45:11 AM

Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on January 27, 2005, 04:45:11 AM
What do you want from a new single player Colony Game mission?
What sort of objectives? Similar to current ones or very differnt? or both?
Quick to complete or very long ?

And what idea's do people have for new Colony Games?
Post ideas.
We want to make a mission that everyone will enjoy.  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Highlander on January 27, 2005, 08:29:40 AM
1) Land Rush. I hate having my base preset for me.

2) Alternatives for base choices A) Good ore but hard to defend. B) Easy to defend but little ore etc..

3) Possibility of population goal alot higher than 600 ? Same with space, possibility of having to launch more colonists ?

4) Enemy bases is better than units just entering the map

 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Cctoide on January 27, 2005, 11:28:01 AM
Maybe a more "sandbox" style of play: plenty of resources, not-so-crappy morale, ability to attack whenever we feel like, and so on...
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: TH300 on January 27, 2005, 12:36:44 PM
landrush and enemy base on map should be.

sandbox would be nice. ;)

If u don't make it sandbox, maybe make it so, that the player can win by reaching one of several possible objectives. I.e. either launch the starship or have a certain population. I would be careful with an onjective "eleminate the enemy", because that might be necassary to reach another objective.

A totally different idea is to make it a 2v2 with the human player having one allie, either an ai or another human player (if that can be programmend somehow).

In any case make sure, that there are as many startegies as possible for completing it. A game that u can only win by following an exact startegy could at best be fun the first time playing.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: BlackBox on January 27, 2005, 05:08:30 PM
You could even go farther and make the victory condition almost anything.

For example, you could make something where you had to, oh, capture food or colonists, steal RLV, fight your way to a certain point on the map, escape from somewhere, etc.

As for the design of the mission, it should use some randomness. (For example, the strategy the AI player uses would be more unpredictable, (e.g. would it go offensive or defensive)?, order in which it builds up its base.
The idea is to never "play the same game twice."

I would help out with design of a colony game but I have other stuff I have to do. (Like designing the map editor, etc.)
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Betaray on January 27, 2005, 06:23:45 PM
you could even though in some wreckage salvage, they would be scattered around the map, and you would have to find them with scouts after you have reshurched space program, each piece of wreckage would allow you to reshurch a new starship part

those pieces could be hidden in random places, some mabe inside the opponents bases, and some guarded by the enemy

all the other ideas are really good too
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: RedXIII on January 27, 2005, 08:34:12 PM
I always thought of this as a advanced 2 on 2 game. A lot of it is pipe dreaming, probably. Although I wonder if its possible.

Simply enough, theres four players, the top two make up Team A, and the bottom two make up Team B. Team A is the defending team, Team B is the attacking team.

Create a very, very large map. A world-sized map. There are three bases. Base 1, 2, and 3.

Base 1 belongs to team A, it has a extremely excellent defensive position, however, it has limited clear room to build on. There is also limited resources. Maybe one or two of one-bar rare and common. Also add a geothermal vent or two.

However, at the core of the Base 1, there is an A.I., that uses the color black. It uses the exact same A.I. as the La Corrida AI with modifications. For example, unlike the La Corrida AI, if it feels it has 'Too many' combat units, it will send off half it's force, and transfer it to Player 1. The AI will have access to Three-bar ores. The AI Defending Base 3 also has a phalanx of turrets here. These turrets are in fairly crappy positions, and only serve as a rather artificial first line of defense to prevent rushes and allow Team A enough time to solidify a defensive position.

Base 2 will consist of Team B. They have poor defensive position, however, they have excellent ore.  They will also have an A.I. assisting them. Their AI will be plymouth, and mostly focoused on base defense. It will send combat units to Bases 1 and 3 at random intervals. However, if there are enemy units remotely near the base, than it will send all combat units to meet them. It will also build a lot of turrets.

Base 3 will consist of Team A's Main force, They have average defensive position, and good (But not great) ore. It also has an AI, the AI focouses entirely on defending Base 3 from intruders, however. It too is plymouth.

The objective is simple. Destroy the Base 1 AI's Command Center. Team A's objective is to destroy Team B's base. Team A can lose Base 3 and still be able to win.

PS: I posted this to allow people to draw ideas from my original idea.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Highlander on January 28, 2005, 04:37:45 AM
Hope I read your idea right, please correct me if I have read anything wrong..

But to comment on it, good defensive position does not weight up for a massive amount of ore no matter how you look at it..

Like I have seen Lev do on several occasions is just to mass produce lynxes and wear the opponents defences down bit by bit. Since he got more ore/more vec facs he can build he's forces up quicker than the one on the defensive.

No matter the defensive position, a big difference in ore is what will decide the outcome..
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Drakmar on January 28, 2005, 09:47:08 AM
I agree with that. Maybe if you had one 2 bar Common and Rare in the defensive, it might work better.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on January 28, 2005, 10:27:28 AM
nice idea Red but its not single player.
the base with more ore can produce larger armys and win.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: RedXIII on January 28, 2005, 06:48:41 PM
While Attrition may work, the point of a defensive position is so that the 'Swarming' player will be at a disadvantage.

Simply enough, swarming with 500 lynxes wont be useful if the 100 lynxes fielded by the defenders wipe them out.

Numbers are not everything. Lev only beats people because he not only knows how to mass produce lynxes, but use what he produces.

Plus the defending team owns two bases, While the attacking team attacks one, the defending team might decide to use the other to stage counterattacks.

The definition of a 'Good Defensive position', for example, may force the attacking player to go through a heavily defended entry point to even hope to reach the target. How easily do you think Lynxes can survive going through a valley with ESGs and Stickyfoam raining down from the mountains?

PS: I know Levi, which is why I commented that it was to draw ideas from, not a complete idea in itself.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Highlander on January 29, 2005, 04:08:16 AM
1) Swarm with Tigers instead of lynxes

2) Carpet bomb the entrance with EMP Missiles before sending in the cavalry


With good ore you can afford to do both..
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on January 30, 2005, 08:33:04 PM
depents if players start with rare ore
depents if attack happens early with lynx
the team with more ore can wear the other team down over time
tigers can slowly move in etc
defence will slow units down tho and make them last longer.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on January 31, 2005, 07:24:40 AM
A large map, land rush style, many base locations with differnt ore types and defensive spots. A AI on the map. Many objectives which will take a long time to complete.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: RedXIII on February 01, 2005, 02:43:49 PM
I was thinking more on the scale of multiple AI. Maybe a friendly AI (such as a modified La Corrida Ally) That you have a mission objective to defend.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: TH300 on February 02, 2005, 02:17:37 AM
Quote
A large map, land rush style, many base locations with differnt ore types and defensive spots. A AI on the map. Many objectives which will take a long time to complete.
Yes. A large map is absolutely necessary. And the more objectives the better.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Betaray on February 02, 2005, 05:08:02 PM
dont forget my wreckage idea, it would make the game longer, lessen repetitive ness, and give you a reason to destroy the other coloney other than being bored :D  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: HaXtOr on February 15, 2005, 08:23:54 PM
you come apon one of your old bases and its totaly trashed to top it off a plymoth ai has settled in next to it and is mooching off the abandoned base take it over and rebuild. you enter the map with a repair vehicle. go under the cover of darkness, repair what you need to surprise them with defenses. dig in and build up the base.


this is my new project
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: BlackBox on February 15, 2005, 08:25:50 PM
I like Red's idea of multiple AI's.

Look at other games. You could do stuff where you maybe have to steal things, like technology (easily done), for example the enemy has a prototype unit sitting in a cargotruck deep inside their base. You have to penetrate in and get it out safely, and use the technology to your advantage and take them out.

Make the "technology" something big like a Thor's hammer and all you're able to research are lasers/mics.

Or make it an upgrade. (Remember we can create totally new research topics to change almost any attribute about a unit type). For example the enemy has similar units and defenses to you, but they always have a slight edge over you. (Eg. they sense when you build up and start to mobilize their army, either by building like nuts, or taking out your production facilities which are badly defended).

And with that research you can get the edge over them. (It could even cause the trigger of them slowing down production due to "radio interference" or whatnot. Researches can be used to trigger anything in the game).
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: lethalgoose on February 15, 2005, 08:29:03 PM
aight, here's my idea:

Sandbox!

Maybe sum1 said it, but Id like an instant action type game, where you have either 1, 2, or 3 enemies (choice). And you are all put on the map having to start your base from scratch (with required storage kits of course). Then, you can wing it. Enemies will fight each other, not just you (will attack each other) and you can choose the difficulty. Basically, easy (nobody would play so dont make it), medium (on case newbs or a bored person wants to play), and hard (which you escalate dramatically). Where enemies can form alliences, use tactics like stickyfoam or emps usage, and they build up defences that are acctually quite helpful (emp guard post, stickyfoam pst, etc). The enemies will go to your weak point in defencives, and will even make distractions and turn off their lights during the night. Enemies will flank you, and go straight for your base's most vulnerable points. And if that enough, stop it there. You can even give them a preset building and research order to make them proficient. make a mode Levi would have to think to win :D
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hooman on February 15, 2005, 08:34:20 PM
Well, sometime in the future when there is a map editor that will allow me to do what I want, I plan on making a new colony game. It's gonna be a sandbox style game. There will be no way to win, and probably no way to lose. Hopefully I'll have an AI base in it, and if one player ever gets trashed, they will get reinforcements to start up again. (Possibly replenish a few colonists if they all die). Depending on the difficulty setting there will be various things that could happen. On the easiest setting, there will be no attacks on your main base or any disasters in that area. Basically you'll never have to worry about your main base being destroyed. There will, however, likely be a disaster area, or a part of the map where enemy units will roam. Maybe like a top vs. bottom kind of thing. One half of the map is safe, the other half is where all the action happens. Now, depending on the difficulty level, this might change. On the hardest level, there will be disasters everywhere and the AI is free to trash your base. I'm not so sure about medium yet. Allow disaster everywhere but not AI everywhere? Ahh well, plenty of time to sort that out I guess.


As for another idea (largely from Haxtor after a discussion on IRC). You could start with a heavily damaged base where all the buildings are offline. We'll probably want a nearby enemy base leaching off the resources of the destroyed base. (Mines, rubble, etc.) You enter the map with a single repair vehicle in the dead of night, and see what you can get operational before your opponent realizes what has happened and stops you. So, get your basic required structure operational, kick out the invading resource hogers, retake your mines, and get enough defenses up to stop the couterattack.

Edit: and the idea gets posted while I write it up.  :o  Ahh well, I liked the idea.

Oh, and we should have some sort of randomized AI strategy. That way it won't always be obvious how to play to get the upper hand. A strategy that works well one time might fail miserably the next.


Edit: A level where you have to research to be able to see the blight. ... and when you do you find you're suddenly surrounded by splotches of it all over the map. And the gaps are closing in.  :ph34r: (Or you could not research it and silently be killed by the unknown and wonder what happened.  :lol: ) For sure the original starting area would have to be one of (or near one of) the starting virus patches. But without the research you won't know which mines are safe to move to, or at least how long you can expect to have at them.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Thunder1 on February 15, 2005, 09:35:25 PM
This sounds great! I was thinking for medium difficulty that the computer attacks your base, but half as much as hard mode. Disasters should include storms, earthquakes, and meteors, but not very frequent in the safer half.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Drakmar on February 15, 2005, 11:10:33 PM
Quote
For sure the original starting area would have to be one of (or near one of) the starting virus patches. But without the research you won't know which mines are safe to move to, or at least how long you can expect to have at them.
Great Idea! I have an addon to that idea: There are mines everywhere, and some are infected with the blight, whihc is chosen randomly each time. They stay dormant until a Mine is completed on them, then it explodes, and a slow-moving blight is released. The more you release, the faster they move. When the research is finished, you can prevent unleashing any more, but will still probably die from the ones you already released!
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Ezekel on February 20, 2005, 09:24:55 AM
hum, why not have a landrush where both you and the computer starts off with no buildings.

... perhaps even have a 3rd or 4th player as an AI player (making a 3 or 4 way battle)



...can more then one AI script be put into one map without causing problems?


mrr, no matter what is made i'll play it. haven't played anything new in op2 in ages
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hooman on February 20, 2005, 01:21:29 PM
It's entirely possible to have more than 1 AI player on an map. I'm sure they could be made to fight each other, team up against you, or even have an AI player help you. It might not be so easy to accomplish all that though. Using the DLLs for levels really opens them up to allow pretty much anything, but trying to code it might be a real nightmare. Anyways, if the code for an AI is written right, there should be no problems with having it control multiple AIs.

... I guess I'll look into getting an AI to actually ally with you sometime. I'm pretty sure I have an idea how it can be done, but I've never had time to try it out.
 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Zao on February 21, 2005, 05:19:42 AM
Yeah, I would like to see something like a free for all with a couple different computer teams.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on February 21, 2005, 05:34:43 AM
Many good and different ideas here.

A new colony game has been started but dont expect it for sometime :P
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Eddy-B on February 21, 2005, 12:00:04 PM
Hooman wrote:
Quote
... I guess I'll look into getting an AI to actually ally with you sometime. I'm pretty sure I have an idea how it can be done, but I've never had time to try it out.
.. Did you ever try out Renegades (http://beta.eddy-b.com/download), Mission 2 ?  I have something simular in there.
Question is.. what is "ally" ?   Does it mean you and this AI have a common enemy, and the AI is marked as "friendly" -meaning you cannot attack them by clicking only, unless you use the specific Attack command from the menu, same as you would need to for attacking your own units.
OR does "ally" mean that the AI will join you in attack runs, but is otherwise just defensive if YOU don't move off your tanks ?

The latter could be done, although it requires a LOT more coding, and we still need our skills to retrieve attack targets from the player's tanks, cause that cannot be done by using the standard exported functions from OP2 as far as i know..

The first "ally" option is very easy to create, which i've already demonstrated with Renegades, Mission 2
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sub-Zero22 on March 22, 2005, 09:32:18 PM
Plymouth mission: Use EMP's and spider combo to capture at least 6 acid cloud turrets from Eden, then post them at the marked points on the map to defend your base from the constant Eden waves which get stronger until the level ends. To win, you must take out Eden base, or get a population of 600 and launch all spaceport stuff.

Eden mission: Blow up one power system built by plymouth--with scouts. Then, take control of one Plymouth base (blow up command center and build a base beside it), and use it to complete your spaceport stuff and to defend against Plymouth, who will try to steal the RLV from you. If they steal it, mission failed.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: coolzero on March 23, 2005, 06:41:36 AM
cool idea  :D  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: zigzagjoe on March 23, 2005, 06:32:43 PM
Its a neat idea, but with one flaw: You would suffer heavy losses due to the acid clouds.

If you can get a spider in there after emping one, other acid clouds shoot at it and blow the spider and the unit, and this repeat itself many times with you losing many spiders and losing the acid clouds you try to capture.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sub-Zero22 on March 23, 2005, 08:05:31 PM
Quote
Its a neat idea, but with one flaw: You would suffer heavy losses due to the acid clouds.

If you can get a spider in there after emping one, other acid clouds shoot at it and blow the spider and the unit, and this repeat itself many times with you losing many spiders and losing the acid clouds you try to capture.
What I'm saying is capture an Eden Con-vec that has an acid cloud guard post in it. That way your spiders won't get wasted. And that does work, I've done it before.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Johnation on March 25, 2005, 01:58:51 AM
idk if any of you guys ever played age of empires 2 or not, but they have things called random maps, where basically everyone starts with basic stuff, and you just build up a city and try to either eliminate the other players or ai, or reach a certain objective, maybe build a spaceship or something.    

the idea is very basic, but i think it would be fun..

:lol:
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Tellaris on March 25, 2005, 03:35:29 AM
problem is, can Outpost 2 handle this?   It wasn't origonally designed for this, so it could be quite difficult to do it.   Chances are it won't happen imo, if this is the case.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hooman on March 25, 2005, 03:43:49 AM
The difficulty of doing that probably makes it beyond reason. But really, since all the levels are DLLs you could technically do practically anything. It would be possible to set every tile on the terrain from within the DLL, but getting the tiles to match up, setting the terrain movability right, having ridges where the tiles meet up, placing enough resources and in correct/accessible locations, ... and so on, just wouldn't be very reasonable to do.

But yeah, that is a cool idea. Maybe someone can look into doing it someday. They're probably gonna need a lot of programming experience though. Probably want to have at least a basic data structures course under your belt. It'd suck if you didn't know enough to ensure two players could actually reach each other on the map. (i.e. not blocked in by ridges, or just plain seperated by them).
 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Nightmare24148 on March 25, 2005, 01:07:45 PM
I was actually thinking once that maybe its possible to do co-op missions!

Like:

Take Eden & Plymouth mission 4, the one with raiding the orig Eden colony:

1) Instead of just you, both players could start at different ends of the base, and the base would be harder to infiltrate, and you guys link up.

2) One player controls the Scouts, the other Lynxes, and you have to work together to win.

3) One player is Eden, the other Plymouth, and they both work together to get the data from the Labs.

This could also be applied to conquer scenarios, take the same mission:

1) One player Eden, the other Plymouth have to raid the labs, and they will also fight with each other if you meet each other.

2) See what you can raid from the base and bring it back to your side's beacon, and sabotage the other guys operations.

Something along those lines. And also co-op mission can have more than 2 people :D

Ok for a colony game idea:

1) Ok in the middle is a Blight base, and on either side is you and an computer ally, same map and same teams, excpet you control Eden or Plymouth depending on what you pick in the col menu. You basically fight the Blight enemy, who has a HUGE base and MANY Outposts, and its efficiency is maddening, and it est new bases a lot.

2) Help an AI ally: See the mission starts with you basically and an AI ally. Both of you are in the same base. Basically the ally is say, the real Eden/Plymouth colony, and you are your colony. The enemy is a base and outposts that took power by force, and basically you help your ally fight them. They provide much of the attack, you provide more defense and also make those piercing winning attacks. The objective is to capture all their Evac Transports and bring them to the base.

3) Capture: Basically ATM Plymouth only. You start with nothing really except EMPs and Spiders, and you gotta capture one of several convoys at the start of the missions who head out in several directions, and you ambush and capture ONE. These are lightly guarded convoys of Convecs with Command Center, Smelter, Structure Factory, Robo-Miner, Robo-Surveyor, Earthworker, Some Lynxes, Basic Lab (or Standard), Cargo Trucks, an Agridome, and stuff. You capture one of these convoys, build and then I guess it could be either a Population or Starship one.

Maybe both? As in you gotta build your pop up AND launch a starship?

Im also thinking of other objectives beside Pop and Starhsip.

^_^
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: zigzagjoe on March 25, 2005, 01:41:49 PM
That is also a cool concept but it kinda goes against the story: Eden never works together officaly with Plymoth.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sub-Zero22 on March 26, 2005, 10:34:12 PM
Quote
I was actually thinking once that maybe its possible to do co-op missions!

Like:

Take Eden & Plymouth mission 4, the one with raiding the orig Eden colony:

1) Instead of just you, both players could start at different ends of the base, and the base would be harder to infiltrate, and you guys link up.

2) One player controls the Scouts, the other Lynxes, and you have to work together to win.

3) One player is Eden, the other Plymouth, and they both work together to get the data from the Labs.

This could also be applied to conquer scenarios, take the same mission:

1) One player Eden, the other Plymouth have to raid the labs, and they will also fight with each other if you meet each other.

2) See what you can raid from the base and bring it back to your side's beacon, and sabotage the other guys operations.

Something along those lines. And also co-op mission can have more than 2 people :D

Ok for a colony game idea:

1) Ok in the middle is a Blight base, and on either side is you and an computer ally, same map and same teams, excpet you control Eden or Plymouth depending on what you pick in the col menu. You basically fight the Blight enemy, who has a HUGE base and MANY Outposts, and its efficiency is maddening, and it est new bases a lot.

2) Help an AI ally: See the mission starts with you basically and an AI ally. Both of you are in the same base. Basically the ally is say, the real Eden/Plymouth colony, and you are your colony. The enemy is a base and outposts that took power by force, and basically you help your ally fight them. They provide much of the attack, you provide more defense and also make those piercing winning attacks. The objective is to capture all their Evac Transports and bring them to the base.

3) Capture: Basically ATM Plymouth only. You start with nothing really except EMPs and Spiders, and you gotta capture one of several convoys at the start of the missions who head out in several directions, and you ambush and capture ONE. These are lightly guarded convoys of Convecs with Command Center, Smelter, Structure Factory, Robo-Miner, Robo-Surveyor, Earthworker, Some Lynxes, Basic Lab (or Standard), Cargo Trucks, an Agridome, and stuff. You capture one of these convoys, build and then I guess it could be either a Population or Starship one.

Maybe both? As in you gotta build your pop up AND launch a starship?

Im also thinking of other objectives beside Pop and Starhsip.

^_^
For the other objectives: Bases controlled (number of bases you have) | Mines controlled | Buildings/Units captured | Buildings/Units Destroyed.... Alot of stuff.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sirbomber on April 07, 2005, 08:06:37 PM
*raises from grave - Hey, I've been away awhile. Not like I was noticed anyways*
Save the computer player from the OTHER computer players, and steal an RLV...
AS EDEN!!! Better yet, steal it FROM PLYMOUTH! Mwahahahahahahahah!
...Which is why you need to protect your (Plymouth) ally!
It goes boom = Lose ------- It doesn't go boom before X time = Get free A. factory
*attempts to return to grave to discover somebody filled it in with sand*
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: OP2Patriot on April 08, 2005, 01:46:00 AM
*gives idea* I always wanted something cool like this:

You are Plymouth, with unlimited resources and great defenses. Now, what you have is an endless wave of Thor's Hammer Lynxes, they keep coming and coming. It'd also be cool if we had some special way to document how long someone lasts, and we can brag about it.

I really want something like this, because I use my trainer sometimes, and I want something that even my trainer can't top (without using Rapid Fire and Long Distance Weapon Ranges, if I used those, it'd be a slaughter and/or the computer would crash. It'd look cool, however, and I'd probably would have to find a way to record it).
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: CK9 on April 08, 2005, 10:27:46 AM
I have a map idea that I keep trying to make and each time something goes wrong (first it was because the editor was still in beta version and I was the one to find the file save flaw :( , then I got it done only to find it too small, and finally I accidentally destroyed the file I was one-third of the way done with while getting rid of viruses and adware) that I have actually thought of a scenario with.  (wow, that's a long sentance :heh: )

Ying-yang:

the map, like the name implies, is a giant ying-yang (which I will be working on again (most likely after I graduate and before I head out for UCR)).  In the middle line where the oposite halves touch is impassible except for two really small passes that are gaurded by both bases.  The only other way to get to the other side is to go around the outside border.

Okay, now that you guys have a basic vision of the map, here's the scenario:

plymoth is on the volcanic side of the area and learns that the volcano will be errupting at (some mark, it would have to be tested a bit to decide the proper mark for each skill level).  The colony is desperate for survival and have decided to destroy eden to ensure it.  The goal for plymouth colony is to disable or destroy the eden colony, and build up a new base on top of it before the arrival of d-day.  For Eden colony, the goal is to defend the base, take out key structures within plymouth colony, and take starship parts from their spaceport before the eruption.

I know, it's a lame idea, but it is an idea
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on April 08, 2005, 10:58:41 AM
I do like the idea and I would like to have the Ying-yang map made.

Also Patriot op2 games can be recorded with a screen capture program. You idea could be easily coded im sure.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: CK9 on April 08, 2005, 04:31:40 PM
Quote
idk if any of you guys ever played age of empires 2 or not, but they have things called random maps, where basically everyone starts with basic stuff, and you just build up a city and try to either eliminate the other players or ai, or reach a certain objective, maybe build a spaceship or something.   

the idea is very basic, but i think it would be fun..

:lol:
AoM has the same thing...and OP2 does something slightly similar with some of the dlls...

If you look at the Eden Starship map while playing, there a few ore spots that have 50/50 chance of being there when you start the game.  Also, some of the ore spots change how many bars they are (as seen on the eastern side of the Eden population map).  I think what would work for a random map generation for OP2, is to make a .dll that will select a different one on the host's computer and relay to the other computers which one it is.  Is that more feasable than to make a dll that does all the map rendering itself?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote
I do like the idea and I would like to have the Ying-yang map made.
hmmm....I was going to do some runescape stuff tonight, but maybe I'll work on the map again...did I ever send you the "prototype" (as I call the one too small) lev?
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Eddy-B on April 08, 2005, 05:04:40 PM
Quote
You are Plymouth, with unlimited resources and great defenses. Now, what you have is an endless wave of Thor's Hammer Lynxes, they keep coming and coming. It'd also be cool if we had some special way to document how long someone lasts, and we can brag about it.
A trainer-type of game would be nice - it's not that hard to make eden spit out wave after wave of thors hammer's. I've had trouble keeping a hard-level playable, eg. not TOO hard.. ask leviathan about my 'hard' missions when i started working on them  :rolleyes:

Some more details about the map is all you'd need to create a trainer like that
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hawk on May 09, 2005, 09:40:44 AM
I like the idea of waves of endless vehicles coming at you.  Kinda like the Warcraft III guard tower mini-game.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on May 09, 2005, 09:42:11 AM
You could have differnt lines of defence and you would get beaten back into your base.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: coolzero on May 09, 2005, 12:08:23 PM
maybe strange questoin but some while back someone sayd that you could take over someone base. by building your base inside... but isnt there a way to make buildings change ownrers :D
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Ezekel on June 06, 2005, 04:04:47 AM
you can't take over a base, ever.

my brother tried this one game - he built a cc on top of a tube intersection in my base - as soon as he started building, about 1/4 of my structures lost their cc- connection cos his building was in the way
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: TH300 on June 09, 2005, 07:39:58 AM
However, tubes can be shared - I have just tested it.

(http://th300.outpostuniverse.net/images/tubeshare.jpg)
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: BlackBox on June 09, 2005, 07:49:23 AM
The only way you can take over someone else's base is thru code.

The DLL can change ownership, say on certain conditions (say, you destroy their CC so everything they have left gets given to you).

And yeah, tubes aren't owned by anyone, it's actually just a bit flag in the map in memory. The real thing just is that you can't share resources this way (you can't get their food, workers, etc by hooking up to their base, and they wont keep your buildings active)
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: CK9 on June 20, 2005, 03:52:20 PM
Hey lev, I sent the files of to plym to see if he could write a .dll for it.  Only type he'd be able to write is for m-player :( (he doesn't know how to do the CCC (Computer Controlled Colony)).
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Leviathan on June 20, 2005, 04:17:29 PM
AI coding takes a lot, player coding is just placing the bases.

He can post threads in programing forum if he needs help.

Or place the bases/units/mines like you want and someone else can do the AI coding, donno.

This aint realy the thread for this, i take it your talking the map you have made?
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: (•BD£)Sorcer on June 25, 2005, 06:48:40 PM
Quote
you come apon one of your old bases and its totaly trashed to top it off a plymoth ai has settled in next to it and is mooching off the abandoned base take it over and rebuild. you enter the map with a repair vehicle. go under the cover of darkness, repair what you need to surprise them with defenses. dig in and build up the base.


this is my new project
i like this much!!!! add this to the colony game!!!
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hooman on June 25, 2005, 08:43:03 PM
Haxtor was working on that. I think it was playable the last time I saw it, but not quite finished and polished. Maybe he'll tell us if he ever finished it?
 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: instigator on August 18, 2005, 08:28:49 AM
Well was it ever finished?
 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: BlackBox on August 19, 2005, 07:34:46 AM
By what I gather, probably not.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Eddy-B on August 19, 2005, 10:44:30 AM
I might still pick up this idea, i have thought about it earlier.
As people that read the Outpost : Renegades forum know, my (single player) missions can access old bases built by the player himself, and use that info to create such a take-over & rebuild scenario... It may be inserted into Renegades in a later mission.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: instigator on August 19, 2005, 10:53:43 AM
Eddy
Yeah that would be cool. I really wish I could help. Do you need help on coding or C++? I know someone (an acquaintance anyway) who spends night and day modding games. Mabye he could help...
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: warwalker on May 29, 2006, 06:22:01 PM
Quote
What do you want from a new single player Colony Game mission?
What sort of objectives? Similar to current ones or very differnt? or both?
Quick to complete or very long ?

And what idea's do people have for new Colony Games?
Post ideas.
We want to make a mission that everyone will enjoy.
Make a new single player Colony Game mission using the following:

start off with six convecs that have:
-1 Structure F.
-1 Common Ore S.
-1 Tokamak
-1 Agridome
-1 Command Center
-1 Standard Lab

Three Cargo Trucks with 1000 common metal in each one.

Two Cargo trucks with 1000 food in both of them.
 
1 Earthworker
1 Robo-surveyor
1 Robo Miner
1 Robo Dozer
5 Lynx's/Microwaves

After everything is built in the area u desired, start research wat is needed.

After 100 clicks, an enemy Lynx starts coming in 2 attack u. for every 100 clicks, your enemy sends in an extra Lynx's. :o

100 clicks= 1 Lynx
200 clicks= 2 Lynx's
300 clicks= 4 Lynx's
400 clicks= 8 Lynx's
500 clicks= 16 Lynx's

Ya get it? (thumbsup)

Is this a good single player Colony Game mission or wat? :D  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: TH300 on May 30, 2006, 01:11:52 AM
sounds easy.

One won't really need to build additional lynxes before mark 300. And by then most people usually have a decent defense up with high metal production, especially under such generous starting conditions.

A Standard Lab from the beginning is not needed, as well as 5 trucks. 3 are more than enough, and more fun.
 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sirbomber on May 30, 2006, 02:09:41 PM
Quote
100 clicks= 1 Lynx
200 clicks= 2 Lynx's
300 clicks= 4 Lynx's
400 clicks= 8 Lynx's
500 clicks= 16 Lynx's
That sounds about as much fun as watching my screensaver for an hour.
By mark 200 I'd already have Thor's Tigers.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: BlackBox on May 31, 2006, 02:24:49 PM
Yeah, the timing needs to be sped up.. unless of course you mean game TICKS... in which case, ouch, pain starting off. (100 ticks = 1 mark, so that would be a lynx every mark)

What would be the objective?
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Vexhare on May 31, 2006, 03:34:17 PM
To live through like.... 10000 marks would be insane
 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: lordly_dragon on June 01, 2006, 12:17:24 PM
when you said a click is it a mouse button click????
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: DragonBlade on January 12, 2007, 01:27:44 AM
My idea for a map was Plymonth has a totally massive base kinda like on the mission 11 for eden you free allied cargo trucks from a small plymonth outpost(gets harder of course if on normal fewer units) once you kill them you free the trapt cargo trucks they return to the AI's base and it goes active at this point you are also given structure kits to start a base probably where you freed the trucks once your CC is finished the plymotnh AI goes active and starts sending very larges armys at you(not at first of course but later i'm thinking 50+ units) what'cha think of this idea?
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Boar on April 24, 2007, 09:34:47 PM
I would like some massive sacale colony games, builers that have huge objective lists, like max out you tech, send off a crap load of stuff in to space, and also have a larg colonist base to boot (like 1000 or something) Of course you could use world maps for this also, if the world map where to have continets you could (dont know if it is possible) have ceritan weather/geological condiations on the, each having positives and negatives, and with a larg population to win you may have to expand and learn to adapt you cities to these conditions.  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Psudomorph on May 01, 2007, 02:39:14 PM
Quote
I would like some massive sacale colony games, builers that have huge objective lists, like max out you tech, send off a crap load of stuff in to space, and also have a larg colonist base to boot (like 1000 or something) Of course you could use world maps for this also, if the world map where to have continets you could (dont know if it is possible) have ceritan weather/geological condiations on the, each having positives and negatives, and with a larg population to win you may have to expand and learn to adapt you cities to these conditions.
Interesting idea, like one part of the map would be primarilly a quake-prone place, another would suffer from vortexes etc.?

First I assume you mean to make "continents" by varying the type of terrain in different places, since outpost 2 doesn't exactly support any type of "water" that could separate them. The whole planet in Outpost 2 is essentially one big continent. The best you could do would probably be to separate different areas with relatively impassable mountains, valleys, lava flows, or other geology.
Once the areas are separated however, I think it would be feasible to make them each have a unique type of disaster.

Lets see...
Electrical storms would probably be the least threatening. A colony built in such a place would simply need a large team of repair units on hand. Plymoth spiders would be an advantage.

Quakes could damage many buildings at once, and maybe destroy some. Ideally the best way to deal with that would be a spread out base with some important structures like the CC and Structure Factory duplicated on opposite sides. Again spiders would be a great help.

For Vortexes I am envisioning a colony on wide open desert, with few obstacles to slow down the wind, either that or landforms arranged in such a way as to channel and concentrate the wind. I can't really see anybody wanting to settle in vortex country, but if you did, you would definitely need a very spread out base, with many of your important buildings duplicated far apart, and be prepared to rebuild them when they get destroyed. It would not be a pleasant place to live.

I can definitely see the development of some strategies for living in regions where you know what kind of disaster you are prone to.

The only problem I forsee with a colony game of that scale is the inherent limits of the game.
First of all there is the sharp limit on map size. If there is any way to create maps larger than the ones already used in Outpost 2, then I haven't heard of it, and I have a sneaking suspicion that 256x512 wouldn't be enough.

Second there is the structure and unit limit. I don't know what they are exactly, but I know that you can reach them pretty quickly in long colony games, especially if you have more than one colony at once. For that reason, spreading to other colonies on other continents would be counterproductive because there would be so many unnecessarily duplicated structures. If it is even possible for a colony to support 1000 people, it would probably be best done by a single large colony rather than multiple small ones.

For that reason, people will tend to choose a continent and stick with it. I can't really think of a way to force people to settle on multiple continents, unless you make it a specific objective, and even then I don't know if the game could properly check for it.

All in all it is a good idea and one that I would love to try out, but it seems to me to be just a little too big for Outpost2. If anyone else thinks it can be done though, more power to them, and good luck.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hooman on May 02, 2007, 04:44:41 AM
I think it could be done, but like you've mentioned, I don't really feel the disasters are balanced well enough to warrant disaster specifica areas. The only way the storms would be foreboding, is if there were many more of them. I think if you had 3 storms floating over your base at all times, it'd make them a little more serious. The other problem with disasters is that they are inherently unfair. Unless you push them late enough into the game, or make sure early ones aren't near the colony, people can always get unlucky and have their CC plowed near the start. It's quite annoying having to keep restarting a level.

I believe bigger maps are quite possible, but the map file size starts to grow quite fast. Considering you only usually play on a very small portion, it's sort of questionable if it's worth it. Especially since the minimap becomes much less useful on large maps. I wouldn't mind seeing a few larger maps though.

The unit limit is probably the bigger issue, but I don't think it's that much of an issue. I usually only reach it if I'm doing something silly.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Galciv12 on June 08, 2007, 09:37:41 AM
I dont know if this has already been suggested, but perhaps maybe like a deathmatch mode:

 all techs reserached
 all bases prebuilt to the fullest (no defenses though)
 and almost unlimited resources

 that would create (hopefully) like huge battles and cool stuff like that.
 that would be so cool to play (thumbsup)  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Flameoftheabyss on June 09, 2007, 08:50:36 AM
Quote
that would create (hopefully) like huge battles and cool stuff like that.
that would be so cool to play

I think that would probably result in (very short) EMP Missile/Supernova wars. :)


Anyway, what about a map in which you have to defend your base, and the terrain is terrible in a way that it's hard to build anything at all - lots of cliffs etc., and very mazy and narrow and your buildings are scattered all over the map. Maybe have plenty of storms too, since it's not lethal but still annoying (or maybe short, anemic quakes).
The computer will send troops to try sabotage your scattered buildings in all sorts of ways and directions (and routes, since it's supposed to be mazy), and maybe even sneak in Earthworkers to cut your tube connections if you're not careful enough.
The objective can be to survive long enough, or maybe to collect enough resources, or perhaps get a good unit/structure win/loss ratio by ore value?
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Psudomorph on June 10, 2007, 11:58:59 AM
Quote
Anyway, what about a map in which you have to defend your base, and the terrain is terrible in a way that it's hard to build anything at all - lots of cliffs etc., and very mazy and narrow and your buildings are scattered all over the map.
I find something very appealing about that. For some reason it always struck me as too easy to be able to build a huge lump of a colony and conceivably never have to use earthworkers at all. There is really no incentive to spread buildings out as far as I can see, Except in areas where you have heavy vehicle traffic.

Speaking of vehicles, the auto-navigation would be virtually impossible. Based on what I have seen of how units behave, anything maze-like would quickly render their navigation systems useless, even with an RCC. You would have to control all vehicles with waypoints if you wanted them to reach their destination in anything less than 10x the normal time it should take.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Flameoftheabyss on June 12, 2007, 08:37:50 AM
Oh, pathing problems...
Well, I guess the maze could be made to be not too confusing for the AI?
Probably would need a lot of testing for that.
Or could Outpost 2's pathing algorithm be upgraded to use more resources for better results?
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hooman on June 12, 2007, 04:34:39 PM
You could program in set waypoints for the AI, so it only uses pathfinding to get between the waypoints. Just keep those shorter paths fairly simple. Sort of a hierarchial path finding method, where the level/DLL designer designs the upper level functions. Mind you, that does somewhat limit the AIs useful movement between certain set points. But if you're setting the waypoints to work specifically with a given map, it shouldn't be too hard to set them manually.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Psudomorph on June 13, 2007, 11:30:22 AM
An interesting thought just occurred to me. What if the enemy (Not you, just the AI) has the ability to sort of "air drop" their attack squadrons. That is, they launch a rocket from their spaceport (assuming it is on the map), the rocket reenters at a specific (semi-random) location, all units/buildings in a small radius of the landing are destroyed (to avoid overlapping), and an attack group spawns in that place.

Granted that Air Drops could be a game-ruining feature if they were used by players against each other (as evidenced by the repeated shooting down of "Air Unit" threads all over the forum), but it might provide an interesting strategical element for this particular AI on this particular map, while simultaneously eliminating some of the pathfinding the enemy would have to do to reach your base.

In keeping with the spread out nature of the map, it would be impossible to fortify a small area with unstoppable forces, rather the player would have to concentrate on fast and flexible forces, because there are no real "front lines" to be defended.

There are a few programming elements that I don't know are possible, and it might come out looking a little choppy at times, but overall I think a pretty believable effect could be achieved.

Additional points:
>I suggest it be Plymoth as the defender (player) for two reasons.
__1: They seem more behaviorally inclined to dig into an inhospitable area and use ____the natural terrain for defense (live in harmony with planet).
__2: They have fewer LOS weapons, so their arsenal is better suited to the situation.
__3: It seems more believable for an Eden RLV to land troops than a Plymoth ____missile.
__4: We wouldn't introduce the problem of a meteor defense stopping the RLVs.
__5: Full disclosure: Plymoth is my favorite colony. :P

>Maybe the landing RLV could leave some wreckage or rubble behind.
>There should be some unofficial limit to the amount of weight a rocket can carry, not a programmed one, but just a rule of thumb by the map programmer not to load an RLV with 30 tigers. I'm thinking something like 4 tigers OR 6 panthers OR 8 lynx, but the ratios can always be fine-tuned.
>Eden could build multiple spaceports and launch multiple rockets, either to send attack waves from several directions at once, or land the all in one place to make larger waves.
> The locations of landing sites would probably have to be hard-coded to make sure the rockets didn't land in bad places, but this also seems true of the attack waves in normal games, and those still manage to present a challenge. In general the more sites specified as possible landing positions, the more unpredictable it would be for the player.
> If Eden is on the map, destroying/disabling their spaceports would have to stop the attacks.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Quantum on July 09, 2007, 03:49:39 PM
Put in lots of ore three bar at mark 200 let AI come in with light force at mark 450 let AI come in with medium force and at mark 600 let the AI go all out (thumbsup)  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sirbomber on July 13, 2007, 08:57:43 AM
Mark 200, 450, and 600? Maybe for easy.
Besides, I don't want to see how long I can survive against an AI.
I want the AI to defend against me.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: 7842303 on September 24, 2007, 05:45:42 PM
cool that would be awsome.  i was thinking some thing like a endless game and the ai starts out with panthers and you have to resurch nurserys and univeritys still and they could attack every 250 time mark. how long is a time mark any ways :blush:  
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Psudomorph on September 24, 2007, 07:15:10 PM
Quote
how long is a time mark any ways
For me a mark is about 6 seconds on speed 5.

Open the communications panel (picture that looks like a satellite dish) and it will show you the current mark. You can time it's advancement for yourself.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Hooman on September 25, 2007, 02:09:17 AM
There are 100 ticks in a time mark. Each tick is processed every so many milliseconds based on the game speed. There are (gameSpeed * 4) ticks per second. That is, the time interval in milliseconds between processing ticks is 1000 / (gameSpeed * 4). So at speed 10, that's 10 * 4 = 40 ticks per second, or 1000 / (10 * 4) = 1000 / 40 = 25 milliseconds between ticks.

Or maybe more to the point of your question, 1 time mark at the max speed takes 2.5s. (40 ticks/s * 2.5s = 100 ticks = 1 mark).

And to be nice and general about this, (1 s / (gameSpeed * 4) ticks/s) * (100 tick / 1 mark) = 25 / gameSpeed mark/s.

Example 1: At speed 10, it takes 25/10 = 2.5 seconds per mark.
Example 2: At speed 6, it takes 25/6 = 4.16 (6 repeating) seconds for 1 mark.
Example 3: At speed 5, it takes 25/5 = 5 seconds for 1 mark.
Example 4: At speed 1, it takes 25/1 = 25 seconds for 1 mark.


This is of course assuming no latency or jitter, which will inevitably happen, so the real speed may turn out to be silghtly slower. This is particularly true if a task switch occurs just before it's time to proceed to the next frame. The difference though should still be fairly negligible. The time difference is measured from when the last tick code started to run, so if it's a bit late running one time, it won't try to run sooner the next time to make up for it. It'll be run some fixed number of milliseconds after the current tick.
 
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sirbomber on September 29, 2007, 05:12:15 AM
I have an idea for a colony game. You control 1 unit and the AI never fights back. See how much damage you can do in X amount of time.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Lord Of Pain on October 08, 2007, 04:20:36 AM
Map size: like arround 300x300.
No. of AI: 2
Objective: King of the Hill-post!!!!
How it works: ok its 3 differ teams, 2 edens and one plymouth(or)2plymouths and one eden(depends who you chose to be)...  There will be 4 Marked areas on the map...when a scout/light towwer is close enuff, it captures the hill-post.
To capture an enemy hill post, destroy all units that are near the hill, then use a scout to capture.(note) the scoute does not have to be on top oif it to capture.
Now there are no Alliances in this colony game. Every 30 secounds for every post you have in control you game 1 points.

Easy: Max 150points to win
Medium: Max 300 points to win
Hard: max 600points to win

Note: all 3 teams start with: Normal buildings from muilti player, 6 laser/microwave lynxs.. 2 scouts, 1 convec, 2 cargo trucks, and 2 gaurd posts(laser/microwave)

The Starship tech will be disabled for all teams and the vehical factory will be automaticly enabled.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


 (thumbsup)  Oh and by the way, i think this will make a good new way of rules for matchs.... :op2:
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Norsehound on October 12, 2007, 12:19:30 PM
I'd like to see a colony game where the enemy colony doesn't  have an unfair advantage over you.

Playing Colony game Eden Starship Normal is interesting in that I can never leave my corner of the map while Plymouth has three bases and is constantly bombarding me with EMP missiles while they send streams of combat vehicles pouring in to destroy me.

It would be fun if I could fight back somehow *shrugs*
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Lord Of Pain on July 06, 2009, 03:27:58 PM
Iv got an idea:

Make 3 teams of 2. On each team there will be a "boss" and a "supply AI"

A Supplying Out post will be set on each team controled by the "suppy AI"
Structures and vehicles for the supplying base: Common ore mine and smelter 1bar. Commandcenter. vehicle factory trade center(to give you the combat units they produce) tokomak with repair vehicle. Garage. Agradome.

Your base will not be Blue or Red, It will be Yellow.
You will be plymoth with an eden ally(divine united if you ask me). The eden ally will create lazer lynx and a plymoth ally will create microwave lynx.
The supply ally will not be able to exspand the base but will be right next to who they're allied with. Edn's ally will be purple.(or mag..w/e) plymoth's ally will be cyan. Your ally will be green.

I think the collony game should be Team Los..

2vs2vs2

_____________________

I love this topic i cant wait for the colony game! woots ;) !

Eddy-B  FTW! WOOT :D
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Sirbomber on July 06, 2009, 04:30:00 PM
Way to necro a 2-year old topic.
Title: New Colony Game
Post by: Kayedon on July 06, 2009, 11:59:43 PM
Maybe we should force the visible cut-off date to a month.