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Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Divided Destiny => Topic started by: WooJoo on February 22, 2009, 11:44:06 AM

Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: WooJoo on February 22, 2009, 11:44:06 AM
i dont remember being good at op2 ever but the party i worse of is the population based missions

so anybody got tricks hints of tatics with which the game commonly works well?
 
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Kamikaze088 on February 22, 2009, 01:01:18 PM
So here is a general guide I use if there are no dangers of attacks:

As a standard measure, keep your food in surplus and residence demand below 100% at all times.

1. Get the nursery and university up and running first
2. Provide medical centers (keep demand below 100%)
3. Build a GORF (increases morale!)
4. Provide recreation centers/forums (keep demand below 100%)
5. Provide DIRTS
6. Keep those colonists occupied (I guess they don't like time off like the rest of us.)
7. For Eden players have consumer factories and make stuff (we all love cheap goods made from common and rare ore!)

The key is first establishing the nursery and university to allow your population to grow, and then keep the morale as high as possible. Those two factors combined should help you out.

If you need to research weapons, then I usually do #1 and 2, then start researching weapons.

Is this on the easy, normal or hard setting you want help with?
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Hidiot on February 22, 2009, 01:59:17 PM
Never build Recriation Facilities/Forums unless you need to keep workers occupied. Sure, you do get some +2 to morale if demand is met, but you get -1(I think) if you're below demand and they take up workers which could be used elsewhere.

Med Centers are only as good as their demand. The lower the demand, the less your colonists die. 20% demand will make then near-immortal.
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: WooJoo on February 22, 2009, 02:14:23 PM
thats very interesting since ive never looked inside the game mechanics i always thought "wtf why are my ppl dying even if there is everything" but normaly i had not build an university becouse i wantet to research first and then asap fun parks so the ppl moral gets up from 0 or 20 to near 40 somewhere i can only guess how wrong my tatics where to survive xD
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Hooman on February 22, 2009, 04:06:45 PM
GORFs do NOT increase morale. They can however hurt morale if you research it and don't have one active. Same thing for rec centers and forums too actually. This makes rec centers quite useless. They should be the absolute last thing you research in any game, aside from some very specific circumstances which should never occur in practice. DIRTs also don't do anything for morale. They are to reduce damage done to buildings. There may be some morale penalty if you research them and don't have enough, but they will not increase morale over where you were before researching and building them. It's like this for any morale issue regarding colony state. If you don't research it, you get to bury you head in the sand and ignore it (for morale reasons at least).

Basically, if it doesn't show up on your morale list (Ctrl+M), then it won't affect morale. Only worry about what that list tells you to worry about.

Here's how those things work. Suppose for arguments sake that the number of things you have researched gives you 10 base morale points, and you want to research say rec centers, which can give a bonus of 2 points. Assuming you keep things under control, your morale before researching could be 10/10 = 100%. Immediately after researching it will be 10/12 = 83%. After you've built the rec centers to account for demand, you base morale will then be 12/12 = 100%. You're no better off. In fact, you were slightly worse off during the period between when you researched the tech, and got enough buildings up to account for demand. This is why I say research rec centers dead last. They're only purpose is to help morale, and as you can see, they don't help.

The only possible use for rec centers, is if there is some colony state you are unable to manage. Let's say you have buildings disabled due to the blight, and you are now unable to take them offline or disabled/destroy them. Then maybe your base morale would have been 8/10 = 80%, and after researching and building rec centers, it's now 10/12 = 83%. That is, rec centers can make other problems account for a smaller piece of the pie. In this case, and pretty much only in this case can they be truely beneficial. For any other morale issue, there are usually other ways to solve them that are more effective, and more permanent.

If you have unemployed workers, you might build a ton of vehicle factories, just to keep people employed. You don't have to build anything at those factories, just keeping them online will make people happy. If you need more of a building, then build more. If you have too many scientists as workers, then stop training scientists, and try and move them to research. This might take some time, but if you have scientists working as workers, then you have a worker shortage anyways, and adding the burden of running rec centers won't be helping you there. If you've completed all research, and have excess scientists, then build more med centers, or other buildings that require scientists (or just don't worry about it, because you probably already have a large population and don't need to worry much about new people).

Now, GORFs at least let you recycle things, but I find I have very little use for this. Maybe if a disaster destroys a building, I could pick that stuff up, but I find just using those cargo trucks at a mine, and workers at a smelter gives you more ore, and it's more stable. The GORF only helps you periodically, and requires staffing full time once researched to avoid the morale penalty. The best I can say for the GORF, is that once you've researched it, you are then able to research more tech that can increase ore production. However, I think of this as the later tech being beneficial, while the GORF tech that leads there is slightly detrimental. Hence, I tend to avoid researching GROF until later in the game when I have the extra workers, and need a bit more ore.

Similarly, if there isn't too much fear of disasters, or attack, I find DIRTs are also a waste of resources.


Med Centers will help population growth. They are 2 fold once you research them. Once they're researched, they have a morale effect, and you must keep demand at or below 100% to keep your morale up. They also slow your death rate, which is proportional to your population, and inversely proportional to your morale. The more Med Centers you have, the slower the death rate, even well past keeping demand below 100%. There is no limit to how much Med Centers will help slow death rate, although, you may find it seems to affect things proportionally less as you build more.


The consumer factory is a must for Eden on Hard if you want 100% morale. There is a certain multiplier to your base morale, depending on difficulty level. They are as follows:
Eden Easy: 100%
Eden Medium: 92%
Eden Hard: 83%
Plymouth Easy: 110%
Plymouth Medium: 100%
Plymouth Hard: 92%
The highest morale level is at 90% and higher, so for Eden, this is not achievable on Hard without the help of event morale, which the Consumer Factory gives you. Basically, whenever something good or bad happens, it adds or subtracts to the event morale, which is added to your base colony morale (after the multiplier), and can account for morale being keep at 100% (or 0%), despite having conflicting colony conditions. Event morale decays over time. Every 2.56 ticks, it is divided by 2, so it will always tend to 0 over time if no events happen. Note that there is a huge penalty (-800) for killing "good" enemy buildings, such as residences and agridomes. Expect your morale to plummet to 0 for a while if you do this.


If there are enemies around, I find Med Centers can wait until they're taken care of (such as in Colony, Eden Starship), as the cost of staffing those Med Centers is a little too high early game. Kill the enemy first, and then build the Med Centers.


Also, the death rate at low morale is huge, and the birth rate is also much lower. Lower than the death rate in fact. So make sure to always keep morale up. I find dealing with initial colony conditions is sometimes a little more important than getting the nursery and university up, but the nursery and university should still be a fairly high priority. For instance, in Eden Starship, I tend to build a couple residences and an agridome before building the lab and researching Offspring Enhancement and Research Training Programs. That usually keeps morale sufficiently high that not too many people die while you're waiting to get those up.
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Spikerocks101 on February 22, 2009, 11:04:12 PM
Do you write any full book style guides? Non the less, very useful. Just some understanding on my part, heres what I get.

Things that increase moreal\population:
Medi Centers
Consumer Goods Factory
Killing "Bad" Enemy Stuff

Things that make it nuteral if met:
Demand
Food
Building Gorf, Unvi, Nercery
No Scientests as Workers
No Unoccupied Workers
No Disabled Buildings

Things The Decrease Moreal:
Destroy Enemy "Godd" Stuff
Everthing In The Last Paragraph Reversed

So yeah... Is This Right?
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: WooJoo on February 22, 2009, 11:05:02 PM
well i tryed now my combined version of all the tips i got here and here is what i did :

getting residence down under 100%
researching nursery & building it
researching university & building it
(with this few things i think it is already posible to get over 450 ppl)
then keeping the spice flowing
mean while upgraiding the enviorment for better housings
getting medi stations until they got less then 30%
then the rest was quit easy

since i used the easy mod of plymith there where no big invasions and the few units comming by got a emp and a spider waiting for them ^^
 
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Hidiot on February 23, 2009, 06:19:47 AM
I just noticed something really out-of-order in the morale.txt I have somewhere, mainly:

Code: [Select]
REC_UT_LOW  1
REC_UT_MED  1
REC_UT_HIGH  1
REC_UT_MAX  1
FORUM_UT_LOW  1
FORUM_UT_MED  1
FORUM_UT_HIGH  1
FORUM_UT_MAX  1
MED_UT_LOW  1
MED_UT_MED  1
MED_UT_HIGH  1
MED_UT_MAX  1

And then I also noticed the lack of GORF in that list...


Funny thing is that I always thought having the GORF and demand-filled Recreation will give you at least some +1/morale-calculation-cycle, which can be helpful, but it's not if that's not the case.
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Hooman on February 24, 2009, 02:02:51 AM
Hmm yes, you're right. That looks suspiciously like there is a morale benefit even when you don't meet demand. Someone should test this.

I just went back to a CD install of the Sheets.vol file to verify these values. They are indeed correct, as of the last official Sierra release.

It might just know to negate certain values, maybe?

Mind you, we're still talking about the difference between say, 10/10, and 11/11. Not exactly too big of a deal.



Btw, I should mention the disaster warning techs have some interesting morale properties. They also affect base morale, in the usual 10/10 or 12/12 way, but the really interesting part is how they affect event morale. There is a difference in the event morale penalty between a warned disaster and an unwarned disaster. So if there are lots of disasters, even if they're all on the other side of the map, getting advanced warning of them will help your morale a little bit.
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Hidiot on February 24, 2009, 06:43:54 AM
Yes.

Actually, all morale affecting information should be found in moral.txt, unless, as you already implied, the game has some extra internal stuff that also influences morale.
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Kamikaze088 on February 24, 2009, 07:51:00 PM
How are disasters modified in the easy/normal/hard settings? Are there more in the hard setting? Also, does building damage from a disaster or enemy attack drop morale? I've wondered these things.
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Hooman on February 25, 2009, 02:53:11 PM
I don't think damage affects morale, but destroyed or disabled buildings do.

The mission DLLs can ask what the difficulty setting is, and then conditionally do whatever they want with that information. Typically, they'll increase the frequency of disasters, or increase the spread of lava or blight, or decrease the time before one-time disasters, like volcanic eruptions, or the blight. They may also create extra disasater sets, which can be a little harder to tell apart from increased frequency of disasters. Think of tornado alleys. It might be that tornados appear anywhere on the map, but if they appear much more frequently in one area on hard, then it could be because they added another tornado disaster set, with that specific area.

Really though, the DLL can do anything. It might even decrease disasters on hard. Not likely, but perhaps if there is an AI that is much stronger on hard, they may decrease disasters a little to compensate. Or perhaps the other way around. Make the disasters worse, and weaken the AI a little.
 
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Tellaris on February 26, 2009, 06:31:15 AM
Damage doesn't affect morale directly. However, it does indirectly through disabled buildings. Also note, that damaged buildings can be destroyed/disabled by random disasters, such as Storms that can actually be quite devastating overall. Do NOT leave structures damaged, if they are sufficiently damaged and get raked by a storm, you will lose that structure, and everyone in it. Both these events WILL hurt your morale. It DOES pay to keep structures repaired, ESPECIALLY weak ones, specifically morale buildings. Also Tokamaks too. Power is a good resource to have.
Title: Cppp Your Tatics For A Well Growing Community
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2009, 09:29:56 AM
Power is overrated.

Dismantle your Tokamaks today.