Outpost Universe Forums
Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Multiplayer => Topic started by: Sirbomber on June 03, 2008, 10:10:47 PM
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See question.
A few examples of outposts are mining colonies and forward assault bases.
These are two very useful things that Outpost doesn't see used very often.
So why not? Having some VF's right next to your enemy would be incredibly useful.
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Just thought I'd point out that aside from the defense option, the other three are all sort of overlapping choices. Particularly the first two.
Too many workers is essentially too much cost. Or do you mean specifically ore cost? In which case, tubing 50 tiles away is about the ore cost of a CC. At any rate, ore isn't limited in the same way that workers are. The only real limit for ore is how fast you can get it. (Plus how much you can store at a time, which leads back to how many workers you have, but meh).
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Yes, "expensive" is referring strictly to ore cost.
Though you can include "power" costs in there if you like.
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Keep in mind that a CC provides 50 power, so that would be a negative power cost to build one.
Come to think of it, your third option sort of makes me misread the question. Rather than why or why not build an outpost, it seems to imply how would you build an outpost. By tubing, or by building an extra CC.
It also makes me wonder why I'm replying to this question, since I usually DO build extra outposts, if you consider tubing to remote locations as building outposts.
But then it also depends on just how far away you'd consider an Outpost as being. Often I don't build that far away, so by late game, my main base is at least enchroaching on the outpost, if not consuming it.
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Too many workers, too much work needed to set it up, and having to defend two bases with a limited number of vehicles (yay low vehicle limit).
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An "outpost" must have its own operational Command Center. If it's just tubed to your main colony, it's merely an expansion to the main colony.
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Frankly you will rarly see me with out a second base.
multible bases allow for faster ore aquiring and building a base and idling it will let you have it but not have it consume worker allowing you to build up the needed workers and then activate it and start mining rare resources.
also multiple bases have exstended my wining chanses by 50% from 34% to 84%
meaning its harder for the enamy to beat you and you can use the exstra base as a staging ground.
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also multiple bases have exstended my wining chanses by 50% from 34% to 84%
Did you know that 96% of all statistics are made up?
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Because you gotta have a CC there and it uses a lot of workers. And ConVec's are slow to get to the location you want to build it at.
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In which case, tubing 50 tiles away is about the ore cost of a CC.
Just thought I should point this out:
Tubes cost 50 ore.
50 * 50 = 2500 ore
Command Centers cost 2800 ore.
So in order for it to be cheaper to build a new CC instead of a very long tube, you'd need a tube that crosses more than 56 tiles (56 * 50 = 2800).
But at that length, it would be very easy for an enemy to cut the tubes in several places, making you have to find the cut pieces and repair them. Not to mention that Earthworkers are painfully slow. I'd say a new CC is just easier if the new colony is that far away.
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I find its generally worth it, unless its 4+ player games. The unit limit and structure limit is so low, it takes very little to hit it, especially on World maps. I often consume my structure limit just defending myself, let alone the stuff my main colony needs to survive. GPs are incredibly useful, a great supplement to a defending army, but they suck structure limit really fast. And with a low unit limit, I find building GPs is almost required if you want to make defense relatively easy.
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The best defense is a strong offense! :P
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GPs are incredibly useful, a great supplement to a defending army
Hardly. The only advantages they have over their mobile counterparts is that they use up a different kind of unit limit, and being immune to ESG, though at the same time are hit worse by EMP unless maybe you have complete DIRT coverage, but those tend to use a prohibitively high amount of workers and precious scientists. They are even completely outclassed by one mobile unit chassis, the tiger.
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GPs are not end all defence. they are suppliment. You rely on them soly your going to die. relying on tigers you may live. with gps in the mix you have a much better chance.
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GPs are not end all defence. they are suppliment. You rely on them soly your going to die. relying on tigers you may live. with gps in the mix you have a much better chance.
The fact s that when they go boom, plus not to mention they will randomly when damaged, damages any units around it and instantly kills lynx, are pretty damn big disadvantages.
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Not to mention a couple Acids are all you need to own a GP without getting hit yourself.
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See, using TACTICS and playing INTELLIGENTLY neutralizes both those issues.
Guardposts are meant specifically to be a supplement. You can't rely on them completely. But lets not hijack the thread.
If unit/building limits were higher, I'd be more inclined to build more then one base, especially on larger games. However, this is a mute point, as the limit is terribly low, and makes this nearly a waste of resources, especially in 6 p games.
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Cant you amazing coders just up the unit/building limit and make the multiplayer maps a bigger? Is it so hard?
Back on topic here. I can't really multiplay but i can say that i probably wouldn't make a seconds base, but more so work on my army so i can defeat my opponent asap. Now if i see them taking the time to do so, I may reconcider since if I fail to kill him, once his second base is made it would make defeating him a lot harder.
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/hints op2rules to check the Programing forums as there is a project on upping those limits, although not yet adapted to the version everyone uses.
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Wooo Cool thanks hidiot! Ma bad :o .
Sry but I haven't been around much lately, just kinda getting back into op2 now.
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The main reason I don't get a few mining operations going: people rush too often
That's part of the reason I don't play as often anymore, I'm tired of rush games. Where's the strategy in it?
ANYWHO, back on WON, I always set up mining operations on big maps. Small maps don't allow it.
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That's part of the reason I don't play as often anymore, I'm tired of rush games. Where's the strategy in it?
Quiet, you'll piss off all the people who know the art of tactical keyboard mashing and strategic macro use.
See, using TACTICS and playing INTELLIGENTLY neutralizes both those issues.
Guardposts are meant specifically to be a supplement. You can't rely on them completely.
So you put up some guard posts. Putting lynx next to them to add some defenses in the relatively big gaps (vs just using units) between each GP is a no go because it'll result in the lynx getting owned when the GP dies. Any unit put next to them puts you at a disadvantage, really, because they could very easily take damage from exploding GPs. There is nothing you can really do about sticky rushes on a map like pie chart to save your GP except wait for it to die, units you send to intercept the sticky will just get stuck. On any other map where your GP isn't in a small chokepoint there's still nothing stopping from the sticky stopping your units until its job is done. Later in the game if you got someone killing your GPs using acid, unless you happen to have acid or ESG GPs you can get to fire in range of them, there isn't much you can there either. If you packed units between the gaps of your GPs, again, that will cause them to get friendly fire'd by GP explosions, so if you had tigers just outside the GPs they will take too long to get out there, and if you send out lynx they'll be running into their worst enemy (acid).
The only times I ever use GPs is on Swarm and on maps like Around the World to put in chokepoints in the cliffs on either side of your base just for the sake of having something there. It's always just easier to use vehicles, and the only thing that can stop you from doing that is the build button disappearing on your VF.
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That's part of the reason I don't play as often anymore, I'm tired of rush games. Where's the strategy in it?
Quiet, you'll piss off all the people who know the art of tactical keyboard mashing and strategic macro use.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
To all rushers:
When I finish my volcano map, you will need to learn REAL strategy! MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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You might dislike rushing as much as I do, CK9.
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Rushing doesn't even allow for the full potential of the game to be used.
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Let's not get started on that issue again.
Besides, that's off-topic.
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Personally, I don't like the risks defending two bases entails. It can effectively split your forces. Under certain circumstances it can be useful though; for example, if you and your ally build next to each other your ally could take over part of the main base defenses. I also like the idea of remote unit factories on large maps; no defenses needed since it's the source of your offense.
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Usually, when people build remote mining bases, they build them in locations that are out of the way and therefore an unsound target for initial attacks.
Personally, I think the remote base is a major strategical advantage, as it allows you to allocate specific tasks to different areas (for example, you can save space in your main base by mining in a remote base and using metal storage in the main). Also, if you get a foothold outside your opponents bas, but don't quite have the firepower to burst through the defence, a vehicle base at the frontline can boost your army size.
However, the biggest advantage is the ability to hold on past the destruction of your main base. I had a 1v1 on one of the world maps in which I had a small mining base with a vehicle factory on it. My opponet decimated my main base, and just couldn't seem to spot the mining base.
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Well, these results have been very useful. I'll keep this in mind when I start balancing MT2 to make second/third/fourth bases a more viable option.
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My reason for rarely building a second or more small bases is as Tellaris pointed out. Unit limit makes it hard to defend both bases at once.
Usually it's quite easy to divide an opponents attention aswell, so that by moving some vehicles a bit back and forth, you manage to hit either the mining outpost or the main base. (Or just mass vehicles to attack 1 of the bases he is less defended)
I haven't played much with the new bigger unit limit, so with that in place my arguments might be mute.
However, the only time I build any bases far away from my main base it's usually a military Outpost, to press an advantage somewhere on the map. And then it's usually better to call it a second mainbase rather than an outpost.