Outpost Universe Forums
Projects & Development => GORF => Hall of Fame => Topic started by: Freeza-CII on August 01, 2006, 04:39:52 AM
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Now i looked but i couldnt find any one talking about slapping a Tiger turret on a GP platform. And I know people have thought about it.
So here it is Why the hell dont we have a double barrel GP it would use more power and make the base defence a little easier with out using tigers.
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why not a tri-turret for that matter? a GP platform has to be able to handle more than a tiger chasis
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I smell that Lion SUPER HEAVY MONDO CHASSIS again. I think 2 barrels is enough.
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One idea to balance is have a turret speed, the bigger the turret the slow it turns so light fast units, if the transversal is high enough, wont get hit.
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could we expand that as well, having different classes of weaponds? like for a rail gun, a lynx would carry the lightest version of the rail gun, it would do less damage, but would be more accurate and be able to swivel very fast, a panther's would be slower and a bit less accurate, but more powerful, and a tiger would have a big slow (it is twice as big anyway) turret that would inflict massive dmg
that way even though the tigers are still the main groundpounders, lynx and panthers could have the advantage of accuracy
thats another thing, i think accuracy should be come more of an issue in op3, in op2 basicly every shot was a guarenteed hit with a very small chance to hit, add in more accuracy discrepancys to add a new level of luck into a battle, and of corse open up a whole new level of possible upgrades
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Accuracy and/or turrent speed would very much add a new level of tactical gameplay and, if added, would be things undergoing a lot of play balance :)
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The damages of the weapons for the vecs would make sence as well as for GPs. the max weight the vec can use and the max power the weapon requires. GPs dont have to worry about power plants they can plug in with tubes.
How ever the double barrel turret could move just as fast as a lighter turret. This is because it could have bigger power requirement to push the turret around faster and it could use a different drive motor.
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But wouldnt you then use that drive moter for the smaller turrets to make them even faster?
The reson i suggested turret speed is for gamebalance reasons, and gives the specilizations path more validity.
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If the lighter turret used a faster moter, it would have less turning accuracy. It's hard to stop something that is moving faster unless it has more friction
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Ok i think this turning thing might be getting you know to realistic hehe True that a bigger turret would be heavier and slower turning and would require more power. Think of the turning of a turret this way tho like most things that aim or tune you have a Course tune and a fine tune. So it wouldnt be like some one picking up a 2x4 and trying to hit a golf ball
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The turret could also be turned with electro magnets, anywyas you are right this is getting a bit too technical ;) gameplay comes first!
Turrets moving faster on larger chassis might actually be a really good idea, as lighter turrets could move faster and take out speedy craft better.
Faster turrets being less accurate, while probably more realistic, migth be too much and defeat the point of fast turrets (taking out other fast craft)
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Perhaps some weapons might allow for double barreled GPs, but others wouldn't - IE no double Thors, but yes to double lasers, etc.
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fast turrets arn't inaccurate, just look at the phalanx anti missle turret, it can move extremely fast to catch up with missles, yet is accurate enough to hit them, and it can stop very fast http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm)
if you have the drive moters capeable of moving a turret quickly, than they are capable of stopping the turret very quickly as well, all you have to do is short out the leads to the moter and it will act as a brake that would be more than capable of stopping the turret right where it needs to be
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Or simply just fire on the move, while tracking.
The electro magnets thing Croxis mentioned might actually be applicable - if we make turret speed an issue, we might want a research that could increase that speed. Keep those too-technical things in mind.
IMO something we can work with for this turret-speed thing, is think that - the Lynx is too light to have very powerful turret turning motors, and the Tiger has to fight all that weight of the double turret. The Panther on the other hand, has neither problem to worry about, thus giving the Panther the fastest turret speed. Just something to make the Panther feel the luv.
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I like it, lynx have speed panthers have accuracy and tigers have durabality
I think thats pretty balanced
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I did talk about this (in IRC I think) about a million years ago. The idea was shot down by other people who said it was "overpowered". :/ Obviously, they didn't realize how s***ty regular GP's are.
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it would be a good idea.
if tigers can hav them im sure gp could.
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That would be unbalanced in Op2, but considering its a new game it would give a chance to rebalance old concepts with new ones.
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I like it, lynx have speed panthers have accuracy and tigers have durabality
I think thats pretty balanced
Accuracy? Where did that come from?
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IMO something we can work with for this turret-speed thing, is think that - the Lynx is too light to have very powerful turret turning motors, and the Tiger has to fight all that weight of the double turret. The Panther on the other hand, has neither problem to worry about, thus giving the Panther the fastest turret speed. Just something to make the Panther feel the luv.
there, just a few posts above
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I dont know why you people are putting all this damn realism in the game let all the weapons fire like they did in op2 and just be done with it. That is nice clean and simple no reason to make every thing almost rube goldburg. OP2 had the weapons make miss fires that was good enough.
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So more interesting and thoughtful gameplay is a bad thing?
If it comes down to realism vs gameplay, then gameplay should win, but I'm not seeing this as the case.
Turret speed is going to be coded anyways because the buggers arnt going to magically point in the direction of fire, all what will need to be done is change a number in the turret speed equasion from a number to a variable which is assigned to the chasse/gun -- its not hard to add.
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That would be unbalanced in Op2, but considering its a new game it would give a chance to rebalance old concepts with new ones.
And you're forgetting how worthless regular GP's are.
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Right. If guardposts were rebalanced to be viable options then they may be no need to have double barrel, or balance it so double barrel is only viable for particular counter stratagies and not a universal uber weapon.
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Right. If guardposts were rebalanced to be viable options then they may be no need to have double barrel, or balance it so double barrel is only viable for particular counter stratagies and not a universal uber weapon.
So much for trying to make a NEW idea.
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I dont see how a double barrel gp could be considered an uber weapon, I mean tigers arnt uber weapons, so how could a not moving tiger be an uber weapon, even if the dmg is increased if it is hooked up to a cc?
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People throw temper tantrums when I suggest new ideas.
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The Tiger is nothing more then a movable GP Having a Double Barrel GP looking turret would just mean its going to have twice the power like a tiger does over a lynx or panther. They would cost more use more power and would have the same range for there weapon and sight. There not going to be any more uber then a tiger. They dont move from there spot and have more HP then a tiger any way.
Having all this realism bulls*** with how it turns and making one faster and the other slower and the complexity of calculating the ACCURACY based on turret speed distance to targer and target speed is just bogus. The Turrets are just like the vecs they basicly turn and fire on the enemy not this slow moving bulls***. They wouldnt be uber just better then a regular turret and they would have a rare ore cost to them. They wouldnt take up any more room then a normal turret. Making all this REALISM for the GP turrets would then have to be put on the vecs as well and you can pretty much forget that. Just have the turrets for any thing work the way they do already. A absolutely horrid term i am about to use. KISS Keep it simple stupid.
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One fallacy with KISS: Tic Tac Toe.
LIke I've said time and time again, real ism isn't bad if it adds to gameplay.
Again I have two words that nullifies your entire argument: Play balance.
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you say things but you dont explain them put up or shut up you know that term right.
Tic Tac Toe is simple the person that goes first wins pretty much by putting what ever in the right spot and causing a 2 lines and only one that can be blocked very simple there is nothing complex about that.
Its a turret that fires faster using twin barrels its a Statonary defencive weapon and like the Single barrel guard post it is kill able it can be EMPED it just fires faster they take up more space then a unit so spamming them becomes harder plus spamming the GP means you need alot of power because a GP is what 50 power these double barrel gps would take 75. BOTH f***ING SIDES WOULD HAVE IT :P. Its very simple twin barrels of the same weapons or any new weapon that is or might be in the game some building cost difference in price and time to build. You seem to think this is going to be the END ALL MOTHER f***ER WEAPON it wont be because its a turret it doesnt move around the map it stays at the place it was built. Dual Thors Turret no different then a tiger that sits there only gps have more hit points i believe and the dual would have more of course because its bigger.
You want to add all this REALISM. IS it really needed that much. This isnt a first person shooter or a simulation so it doesnt need all this complicated leading of the target or the slower turret has more accuracy or even worry about turret speed. Just keep the turret turning like it is. RTS with all this crap in it will be slow imagen the LAG caused by 200+ units all calculating all this crap at the same time.
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thankfully turrets only use up 10 power, so a double barrel gp would probly take 20, basicly it would mean its a dencer firefield, that coupled with hopefully it would have higher hp (probly 750 instead of 500) would make it a nice heavy defencive position
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but vecs out number gps any way they just try to shore up the numbers a bit
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Generally the people and places I hang out with, we don't treat each other like s***. (Hence a bit reason why I read digg over slashdot.)
Let me put it to you this way because any and all attempts of explaining have ultimately failed. The suggestions I make is NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM ADDING REALISM FOR THE SAKE OF REALISM.
Let me say it again just so you are quite clear what I am saying. Everything I have or will suggest has nothing to do with making the game more realistic. You have the most bazar paradigm in your head right now.
Everything is to add and develop gameplay. Period.
And one again, two works that make your argument pointless: Play balance.
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the only way to determin if something is balanced on a new engine is to try it out
there is no point in argueing about hypothetical balance because neither of you know for sure until it is tested out with the op3 engine, thats how games are made, ideas our proposed and tested, and the ones that dont work are weeded out, there is no point in argueing over hypothetical concepts
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OMG if both side have the Double barrel turret then it would be balance because the cost of the weapons is also relefected on the f***ing GPs EDEN Double BArrel THOR PLY Double Barrel ESG. Different Cost Like i said before More power comsumtion like i said before Both side have access to this Tech like i said before Its not different then both sides having tigers. All this does it give a heavier defensive weapon.
moderated by TH300
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The game is balanced as is. We don't need 'dual turret GPs' the current GPs are stronger than tigers.
If you want 'dual turret GPs' then just change the artwork to a thing with two turrets.
As for figuring with "the turn speed has to be slower for the weight" or whatever, no one's gonna notice unless it's some "mega weapon" turning as fast as a laser. But other than that you don't have to throw this huge amount of realism.
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well seeing how this is op3 we are talking about not op2, we have no idea what is balanced and what isnt, op3 will have a different combat system than op2 thus allowing things that might be unbalanced in op2 perfectly balanced
again, the only way to tell with a new game if something is balanced is to test it, until we can do that, there is no point in argueing, just put your idea up for grabs so that it can be tested in turn, and everyone else just accept that, unless its something so out there that its not even worthy of the testers and coders time
again, argueing over something like this is pointless, neither side knows what the combat system in op3 will be like and thus put up a solid argument backed by facts
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well seeing how this is op3 we are talking about not op2, we have no idea what is balanced and what isnt, op3 will have a different combat system than op2 thus allowing things that might be unbalanced in op2 perfectly balanced
Yes, but it's based off of OP2, I wouldn't expect it to change terribly much.
But yes, I agree its pointless to keep arguing about this.
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I love the idea of new and improved fortifications, walls, and more powerfull turrets and guard posts.
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This topic was closed already? And it seems discussion is pretty much over. No reason to necro a topic that is a year old.