Outpost Universe Forums
Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Multiplayer => Topic started by: Starfox00000 on February 07, 2006, 08:41:16 PM
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I use EMP missles, and some people were getting pissed at me. Thats fine, and I had decided to stop/severely limit my using them. Now, I got the most flack for haveing lots of missles (the most spaceports I have ever had is 6) and EMP-ing "mining colonies" (mines with smelters and cargo trucks, and then ppl would have to reset the cargo trucks.
But recently I had been lurking around the fourms and was reading this thread http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2095 (http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2095)
and found some intresting things like
Quote: OP2hacker "I've had 6 spaceports in some game..." Unquote I've never had more than 6 either.
And Quote: thablkpanda "That's how Starfox plays. Again, i hate to single out one person. But he built 6-8 spaceports on me, and would have launched had it not been for the fact I was getting beat anyway." Unquote I didn't even launch, but it seems that when McShay beat him with plymouth Quote: thablkpanda "which I recently got owned by as Eden, thinking I'd own some n00b stupid enough to play plymouth against me. (Actually wasn't a n00b, it was McShay- real cool guy, and a true Plymouth master.)" Its totally ok. Not for me though, even as an insurance policy.
And When Mcshay gets lots of space ports and uses them constantly, its also ok Quote: Mcshay "I have played many games where I can run 3-5 spaceports constantly and produce units." and "to frequently have a maxed out tank army and many spaceports at my command. If you had played any game with me a month ago, you would have had to kill me early on, or face that." and "I usualy can staff and easily produce missles for 3-6 spaceports." but It's not for me.
It's not like anyone agreed in any of these games not to use missles or anything, and if its in the game I think its a valid strategy, like Sl0vi Quote: Sl0vi "MP missiles are fine the way they are, and if ppl want to mass-produce them, well mass production is a very valid strategy, so I don't see why a limit should be put on them. However, the blind spot on meteor defences seems like a bug, and I'd say using it is an exploit :/" P.S. I never had any knowledge of the missle defense exploit and think it should be fixed.
And, Are three missles really that much?, alot of people in that thread (to many to cite, or have been cited). Look at this thread http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2522 (http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2522)
In this peticular game I only used 3 missles, and there is no way I had 9 spaceports. Quote: thablkpanda "I'm speaking from experience, case in point when I played Starfox00000 yesterday. He exploited the exact Spaceport trick I mentioned." -what thrick? mass production? like everyone does with units?- "He never EMP'ed my base" and "Using only three missles".
Plus, in an even army thor/acid cloud/emp vs. esg/rpg/emp plymouth will lose, they need something extra, mabey not 4-6 missles, but when your in a high mark game with 4 ppl, and you know that it you attack one of the other 2 ppl will kill you and you at the unit limit what do you do?
That being said, I would be fine with some ground rules for all games (e.x. no more than 1 spaceport per person), increasing the build time/cost, decreasing the effect like a smaller radius mabey, or something. possibly some other rules like in the multiplayer guideline thread. In fact I support it because it would end this.
Again, I understand that people didn't like lots of missles (really, I don't want to be another moogle, I really dont want that to happen.) But like I said earlier, Is three missles really that much (Missles, not Spaceports)
Indeed I started playing eden, (the last 3 games I played I was eden). But when I saw this thread, it seems like a whole bunch of people did/do this and have no reprocussions (like getting a rep. for being cheap). Only me.
I'm really sorry but I don't think I've been unreasonable, I would support ground rules for all games or something... I didn't even really care until I read that other thread
Again, I'm really sorry for the long post and the new thread, I just think I have a right to be upset. :(
edit: thats not why I haven't been on IRC lately, just my laptop HD died and Im on my super old comp, waiting for the warrenty replacement.
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you are right, missles are a viable way to win the game, just as much as lynx or tigers
if the designers of op2 didnt want you to be able to use missles they would have put a limit on how many spaceports you could build
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Another one of these. Let me just make this short.
Nerf the missles, then also nerf the thors!
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you are right, missles are a viable way to win the game, just as much as lynx or tigers
if the designers of op2 didnt want you to be able to use missles they would have put a limit on how many spaceports you could build
The game designers didn't intend (they probably didn't even think of this at the time) for people to build 4-6 or more spaceports and launch a massive amount of EMP missiles. Saying mass missiling is a viable way to win a game is nearly like saying that scout rushing, building guard posts at your enemy's CC, and using earthworkers to destroy your enemy's tubes are legit.
People are specifically mass missiling you, Starfox, because they're assuming you'll do the same thing.
Mass missiling has ALWAYS been considered a cheap tactic.
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LOL omg you guys, seriously. when you lose or have to seriously face losing you complain but when you win using hte same tactic, you insist that everyone has to know that youre the "missile master".
i agree with starfox but i also agree with everyone else. people are fickle and will bash a tactic that kills them even if its one they prefer to use. i always get told "we didnt agree to that in the lobby" whenever i complain about cheap tactics and then get ignored. i think everyone needs to suck it up, seriously. and yeah, ill prolly complain about this in a couple days and someone will tell me to suck it up but then i can just say that i prefer to be in style :D
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well people should set rules before they start the game, then they can moan if the rules are broken. but if u dont set any rules before the game u cant moan when someone does somthing in the game.
i love missiles, u should use them to missile people mines and factorys. and of chorse their tiger's and armys then send lynx nova's in to destory their units. and the more missiles u got the more effective your attacks can be.
i like to missile my way thru the back of someones base and run some nova's in and win the game and the big army battle where having at the front of of the base dosent matter :)
whats the meteor def problem?
it may be considered a cheap tactic by some Arklon but if havnt been told u cant use it then people cant moan at you when you do.
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for my multi maps im thinking on makeing it so you cant use emp missiles.. i think they are abused too much
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I remember anoying HaXtOr once when i played with him. Missiled his army then nova'ed it :P
Yea i think createing custom tech's for maps is a great idea. Remove tech and stuff. Mod away!
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Mass missiling has ALWAYS been considered a cheap tactic.
Really Arklon ? "ALWAYS" might be a bit strong word here.. ? I have never heard of Mass Missiling being considered a cheap tactic before some guys brought it up not long ago..
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I agree. I never herd it either realy.
I used to play on WON as did Highlander, but Highlander actualy played for longer than me, and when WON was big.
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I think that useing missles is a very cheep tactic, its like saying that you dont know how to command your armys properly and stratigize or defend yourself.
If your going to emp you might as well be playing agenst a ai that is dead. there is no skill involved
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There is skill involved. When you are about to get EMPed you gottta EMP your tigers with ur lynx EMP's so the EMP wears off quicker than the EMP of a missle. Also if your driving in nova's you need to get them in before the other player can get something there to stop it. Timeing is key. Skill it takes.
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I really think whether the missiles can be considered a cheap tactic is up to the players playing in the game. If you don't like the idea of EMP missiles, make rules before you start.
As for the meteor defense not blocking all EMP missiles. This isn't a bug. It's designed to not have a 100% success rate. I believe there's a research you can do to improve its effectiveness. Also, it's designed for destroying meteors, not missiles (not sure if that's by design, but do think about it. Meteors come in at an angle, and slower than, EMP missiles)
Bottom line is, make rules before the game if you don't want people to use missiles. Otherwise, consider any strategy valid.
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Yeah.
I remember on WON before a land rush game you would set the build mark of chorse and make sure eveyone knew that.
But we did also ban cheap strategy. Thos strategy's were using earthworkers to take down people tubes and scout rushing. Before the game started we would say these are baned to make sure no one did it.
If you dont set any rules before the game starts then people cant break any rules :P Set rules before hand!
Rock on missiles!
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I agree with that :)
Here's an idea... before (or while it is loading) a game starts, have OP2 remind the players about the game rules.. etc. This way, ppl will remember to discuss it beforehand.. or if pops up during loading, to ask once the game starts. :)
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Take away the thors becuase the missile is gone that is sad. You people need to get over the fact that thor and emp is really the only good units eden has. Ply has ESG EMP RPG NOVA and sticky. Rail guns suck flares are fine laser are ok but only on a fast lynx acid does damage but not much on the heavier units plus it has self damage where a ESG does not with dont make much sence to me beacause there f***ing land mines. EMP can reach any where on the map and it doesnt have to move thors have to move they are a unit. The thor is not the mighty rape all weapon.
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I never worry about Plmouth mass missiling. Firstly, I have TWO observatories, minimum. I build plenty of meteor defense. I know how to command my armies to prevent the entire force from being disabled. I've never lost to mass missilers before.
Its all about skill and tactics. You have to be careful. While emping your own army does help, its not the end all tactic. There are plenty of other ways to protect yourself.
One example I'm going to give.
You got large tiger army, completely emped. They send in nova lynx to kill your army.
You SHOULD have, I'll say again, SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST 6 LYNX AWAY FROM THE MAIN FOCE. What should they be? 3 EMP, 3 Thor/ESG. EMPs will stop the novas in their tracks, ESG/Thor will kill anything that gets by.
As for emping ore, while incredibly annoying, its more of a waste for the missiler then it is for you.
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Freeza, so what if Plymouth has ESG/RPG/Nova, when they lose to a thor/acid army anyway... Sure Plymouth has more good units, but Edens best units are way better then Plymouths.
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Finally someone who has his facts right (thumbsup)
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Thor might be the overall best unit, but its also the most expensive.
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well alls i am going to say is if the emp missile is removed ply should get a new unit. You cant remove any eden units because it would cripple eden. putting more production time on emp missiles would be nice but would not stop multibombing.
thor is a hard hitting weapon but it doesnt have great area damage that ESG or Acid has Acid doesnt seem to have as good as damage as esg either.
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Couple those ESGs/RPGs with EMPs and they'll stop the thors dead in their tracks.
I can remember a game where my opponent had all thors, and I had about 50/50 microwaves / EMPs, and I easily beat the army of thors due to the EMP. (EMP disabled them and then the microwaves took care of them)
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exactly the thor can be defeated with out the use of EMP missiles
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If we had OP2's engine source (which we don't D:), we could've made it so that you could only have X number of EMP missiles being produced and on launch pad at the same time.
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The Meteor Defense exploit/bug/whatever is:
http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.ph...topic=2095&st=0 (http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2095&st=0)
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If we had OP2's engine source (which we don't D:), we could've made it so that you could only have X number of EMP missiles being produced and on launch pad at the same time.
You could do something like that in a DLL anyway.
Just hook the command packets, and when a ctMoProduce packet appears, and the item being produced is a missile, increment a count. If the count goes above a certain number, change the command type to a ctNop and the missile will never get built. (Or perhaps, you could AddMessage an error to the player, saying that they cannot build more EMP missiles).
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Umm, that would fix the number of missiles per game. Keeping track of already built missiles and missiles being built would take slightly more work.
But still, valid strategy! (thumbsup) :P
Actually, I just don't have much faith in any of the "rebalancing" suggestions. It seems like most of the suggestions to rebalance the game only ends up making it more unbalanced, or at best, equally unbalanced but in a different way.
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I agree hooman. So far, every idea put forth will simply not work. The ONLY way I can think of balancing this is to redesign both factions... in which they may no longer play like they where ment to. Eden, technologically advanced, and powerful. Plymouth, weaker, but more cunning.
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Another one of these. Let me just make this short.
Nerf the missles, then also nerf the thors!
and while we are at it lets nerf ESGs and Stickyfoam as the honestly give plymouth the advantage in the absence of thor's hammer.
in fact, why quit there, lets give the two sides the same tech trees but keep their buildings different looking.
but wait someone might hide a lynx behind the eden university! oh god forbid you can't see half of a lynx!
better make the sides identical and nerf any attacking units beyond a basic laser-lynx.
- as you can see, nerfing something just doesn't work the way you'd like it. you have to keep doing it and doing it till you end up with a more and more generic faction make up on each side.
thor's and EMPs both have their weaknesses.
thor's are expensive
as are EMPs
EMPs cannot cause damage, but can hit anywhere on the map.
thor's can do a lot of damage (of course if they are in range), but have a range limit.
also, i agree with b-ray. it's unlikely the dynamix team considered missile spamming. infact, players didn't cotton on to it that quick (i remember when people were moaning about plymouth being weak in high mark games and only useable for early micro rushes. seems that that isn't the case anymore.)
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Honestly, you all are a bunch of whiners. StarFox wants to use the resources to make a bunch of missiles? Let him. I'll just build an Observitory and a few Meteor Defense posts, and then Thor rush his arse.
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Necro. Totally necro.
btw, I concur.
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fox aint that easy to defeat, if you can use missles properly, you can shut down almost any attack, and what are you going to do, build MD's all the way to his base? I doubt that
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Actually... Thats been done too... Not to fox, but a diff game...
I'll put it this way... Didn't work too well.
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Oh please. If your RTS tactics are up to snuff, you'll use multiple attack vectors, ESPECIALLY against someone with multiple AoE ranged attacks, such as EMP missiles.
His forces will be unable to take out all your attack parties before the pulse wears off, and then you beeline to his power generators and spaceports. Or, if you're lucky, you can hit his CC.
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If you take out EMP Missle's, take out Thors too =p
RTS balancing takes alot of practice, and you can't just remove things like that, especially because you can really tip the scales one way. Don't mess with the balance like that, unless you make it even.
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Feaz, have you even tried to stand against a constant barrage of missiles falling down every 2-5 seconds (yes, that is what it is really like)?
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For a barrage like that, he has to first invest MASSIVE amounts of metals, workers, and scientists.
The moment you see him, realize you can't let him get up that far. To accumulate that amount of spaceports and missiles, he'll have to skimp on the vehicles and GPs.
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with 3 bar mines or even a multipul amount of mines its is easy to get the resources to make the missiles. Even more so when you have extra storages.
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Feaz, have you even tried to stand against a constant barrage of missiles falling down every 2-5 seconds (yes, that is what it is really like)?
Arklon, I think a better question is to ask if he's ever actually played against an opponent that isn't pre-scripted into the mission DLL. (AKA a real human opponent)
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For a barrage like that, he has to first invest MASSIVE amounts of metals, workers, and scientists.
The moment you see him, realize you can't let him get up that far. To accumulate that amount of spaceports and missiles, he'll have to skimp on the vehicles and GPs.
Getting metals for mass missiles is extremely easy. I'd like to see you go up against Fox with him having 10 spaceports constantly pumping out missiles.
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yea feaz, lets put your money where your mouth is, I want to see you play a game against fox, and see how well your thors do against his missles
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Would be glad to the moment I get the bloody thing working.
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I agree with bomber, it sounds like he's never gone up against a missile spammer. Last time I got spammed the missiles fell a few every second for about 2 minutes and then about 2 minutes between volleys. Theres nothing you can do against that, especially if theres about 15 screens between you and the opponent.
feaz, try playing someone THEN talk to us.
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Shooting down multipul missiles is possible i think i made a thread on that.
But ill recap it shortly because i hate redirecting.
2 arrays of meteor defences. One active one inactive. Say when Metdef A fires once or twice you got to its counter part A-2 (which sould be close by A but not right next to it) and activate it once its fired met def A should be good to go again so you deactivate A-2 and wait for the next time.
I have actually tryed this before and it seemed to work.
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1) If your opponent can get 15 Spaceports and the Vehicles to defend them, without you ever being able to stop him, I think we can say without doubt he could have killed you in any way he wished. To be honest, he probably goes about with the Spaceports because t is fun, not because it's the only way for him to beat you.
2) You basicly have 2 ways of denying your opponent those missiles:
- A: Deny him a Spaceport.
- B: Restrict his resource collection.
If you can't do either, then you have a flawed strategy.
3) You are actually allowed to think OUTSIDE the box guys. Learn from your mistakes. If your attack gets messed up by missiles, you DON'T have to continue to send X-amount of tiger squeezed together in a group at the enemy base the next 100 attacks you make. Change strategy ?
As with most other places you can adopt the term "Survival of the fittest" into Outpost 2. Either you change and adapt to your opponents tactics, take advantage of it and survive, OR you don't adapt and fail the sexy voice in the Outpost 2 intro.
On a sidenote: This topic was posted February 8th.. Please don't tell me none of you have managed to work your way around this problem by now.. ?
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Lynx don't help, either. Obviously, you don't know what mass missiling is really like.
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I just made them cry until they stop using missiles. ;)
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No I guess, your right Arklon ;)
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I used to build up to 15 spaceports with missles constantly on the launchpads. People didn't mind so much because we agreed before hand that no base attacks with the missles would take place
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Every RTS has problems when someone decides to mass produce something. WC3 - mass produce air units. TA - mass produce Big Berthas. Dune 2 - mass produce Devastators. The list goes on.
If we're going to limit EMP Missiles, then we'll have to limit EVERYTHING. Why? Because using EMP missiles is a valid strategy that you are taking away. You'll have to limit all vehicles: Spiders, Thors, ESGs, EMPs, RPGs - EVERY KIND of vehicle. BECAUSE MASSING IS A STRATEGY.
I played a game against ShadowCrystal where he massed Scorpions and turned their lights off. I didn't b****, because it was a good idea - can't see them, can't EMP them.
Massing EMP missiles IS annoying to the recipient. You have to adjust your strategy to suit what your enemy is doing. They're massing spaceports? Take them out before they can mass EMP you. They're massing ........... (<- insert object here) - HIT THEM ASAP before they get a good quantity up.
Stop the b****ing and start using your brain to make your own counter-strategies.
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Chandler speaks the truth.
You play TA? So do I. We need to round up the OPU TA'ers and play some.
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Now when some one say limit i think every one automaticly things one and only one. I think if there was a limit to 4 or 5 you can have at one time then you can still have a resonable mount of missiles to attack distract or defend with but not have the over kill amount of 8 to 15+. Limiting to a reasonable number. If that is done i dont think every thing else would have to be limited at all.
It is true about strategy but some times a base just has a really good defence becase of how many openings it has or the distance to the base. You all want to spout off about strategy but dont offer any advice for those that might need it. And also alot of people around here speaking of idealistic ways where there is always a way around some thing. There isnt always a way around some times you just have to yield to a superior force.
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Unfortunately, its next to impossible to defeat somebody who has the ability to mass missile you and actually knows how to do it. The only real counter would be to do it right back, and whatch your arse as much as they whatch theirs... And be prepared for some REALLY long drawn out battles as the units just flash away to the EMP.
Either that or just rush his ass.
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Don't limit missles.
If you're getting pounded, and you're eden, get some meteor defensis up!
If you're getting pounded, and you're plymoth, pound the person right back and get some spiders ready!
Honestly, I keep reading things in the OP3 suggestion section with people (including freeza) saying not to change things, and now I'm seeing people wanting to change this! You want to know a counter strategy? Here it is: emp your own units when the missle is launched! At the begining, make eveyone agree not to base-attack with missles! And for god's sake, use the forking spiders!!!! THey are in the game for a reason, take advantage of them!
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Freeza.. instead of feeding all my knowledge about this game into every newcomer who gets on here, I try to poke you in the right direction every now and then.
It is my belief that you, as new guys or newbs if you like, have more fun with the game if you learn by trial and error and observational learning (Like I did). Instead of having me and some of the others telling you exactly how to do things..
I'm sure we can make a manual for speed 10, where all you have to do is hit hot keys at the right mark and produce the units at the correct mark. It can be done, but it is, like I said, my belief that you will have a more enjoyable time if you toy around with the game yourself instead of being spoon fed every bit and piece of knownledge.
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LOL Feeding all your knowledge like the knowledge of a game is so precious. Any way Give them hints not a walk through you know what I mean highlander.
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If you're Eden, counter EMP Missiles with UFOs instead of melting them for titanum. ;)
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Don't limit missles.
If you're getting pounded, and you're eden, get some meteor defensis up!
If you're getting pounded, and you're plymoth, pound the person right back and get some spiders ready!
Honestly, I keep reading things in the OP3 suggestion section with people (including freeza) saying not to change things, and now I'm seeing people wanting to change this! You want to know a counter strategy? Here it is: emp your own units when the missle is launched! At the begining, make eveyone agree not to base-attack with missles! And for god's sake, use the forking spiders!!!! THey are in the game for a reason, take advantage of them!
Meteor defenses are hardly effective against 3 spaceports. 10? Not possible. And some people have tried self-EMP'ing against missile rain and it didn't work well.
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If I was pounding you dont you think i would keep your spaceports emped lol so you couldnt fight back. Then it comes down to a quick draw Missile rush.
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If I was pounding you dont you think i would keep your spaceports emped lol so you couldnt fight back.
Good luck getting those EMP units there and keep them alive...
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Alright, since this seems to be a hard nut to crack.
Say movement is absolutely impossible(stupid idea that, but thats what most of you seem to think)
So, for let's say La Corrida, or any place you guard an entrance. And following Freeza's suggestion here, I'm gonna give you a few hints.
1) Meteor Defenses
2) Triangle
3) DIRT
Put these 3 together and you'll have 1 answer on how to counter mass missiling ;)
Anyone feel like guessing how to complete the pussle ?
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Alright, since this seems to be a hard nut to crack.
Say movement is absolutely impossible(stupid idea that, but thats what most of you seem to think)
So, for let's say La Corrida, or any place you guard an entrance. And following Freeza's suggestion here, I'm gonna give you a few hints.
1) Meteor Defenses
2) Triangle
3) DIRT
Put these 3 together and you'll have 1 answer on how to counter mass missiling ;)
Anyone feel like guessing how to complete the pussle ?
Multiple missiles. Meteor defenses (even clusters of them) HATE that.
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Multiple missiles. Meteor defenses (even clusters of them) HATE that.
Arklon, I wish I could do like teachers can: Stamp a big, red "FAILED" on your Answer. I might even have asked to have a little chat with your parents about your obvious lack of effort and involvement. (As with everything else, OP2 requires you to put some effort and practice into it before you get good or better)
For the record, and as I underlined, I can see WHY you find mass missiling troublesome, if you like to keep everything in clusters.
Anyone else like to try ?
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Grid systems Grid doesnt always mean square.
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Multiple missiles. Meteor defenses (even clusters of them) HATE that.
For the record, and as I underlined, I can see WHY you find mass missiling troublesome, if you like to keep everything in clusters.
Thanks for misinterpretating me. Clusters as in large groups of them.
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The only time I was annoyined by EMP missiles was when Edencommander launcher a bunch of them at me BEFORE the Atack Mark ended. And after that, nova'ed me BEFORE the atack mark ended.
Lucky bastard, I could've crushed his and Skydock Commander army on seconds If i wanted to break the mark
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EMP missile spam may be annoying but it's still fair plymonth needs a edge over edens weapons which are lethal beyond measure and EMPING your army isn't the end all be all it's what you do when it hits you may be able to turn the tide with even half your army disabled justuse better tactics and EMP doesn't last for very long to tell you the truth because if they haven't blown half your force away by the time they are active eden will go on a rampage
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EMP missile spam may be annoying but it's still fair plymonth needs a edge over edens weapons which are lethal beyond measure and EMPING your army isn't the end all be all it's what you do when it hits you may be able to turn the tide with even half your army disabled justuse better tactics and EMP doesn't last for very long to tell you the truth because if they haven't blown half your force away by the time they are active eden will go on a rampage
Uhh, no. We're talking 10-15 spaceports constantly launching EMP missiles all over the map. And the EMP effect of EMP missiles is much longer than that of regular EMP.
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EMP missile spam may be annoying but it's still fair plymonth needs a edge over edens weapons which are lethal beyond measure and EMPING your army isn't the end all be all it's what you do when it hits you may be able to turn the tide with even half your army disabled justuse better tactics and EMP doesn't last for very long to tell you the truth because if they haven't blown half your force away by the time they are active eden will go on a rampage
Uhh, no. We're talking 10-15 spaceports constantly launching EMP missiles all over the map. And the EMP effect of EMP missiles is much longer than that of regular EMP.
Point taken but still missile spaming all good tho do what it takes to win XD
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EMP missile spam may be annoying but it's still fair plymonth needs a edge over edens weapons which are lethal beyond measure and EMPING your army isn't the end all be all it's what you do when it hits you may be able to turn the tide with even half your army disabled justuse better tactics and EMP doesn't last for very long to tell you the truth because if they haven't blown half your force away by the time they are active eden will go on a rampage
Uhh, no. We're talking 10-15 spaceports constantly launching EMP missiles all over the map. And the EMP effect of EMP missiles is much longer than that of regular EMP.
Point taken but still missile spaming all good tho do what it takes to win XD
Missile spamming is about as honorable as scout rushes, advanced lab bombing, cutting other people's tubes, or building GP's at other people's CC's.
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As was stated earlier...
I believe that if you wish to limit EMP missiles, have it as a rule before the game starts (only 3 spaceports allowed, etc)
Otherwise, if you let them (either by rules, or (if allowed by game rules) by letting them build up 10-12 spaceports) its your own damn fault - you should have specified in the rules a maximum number of spaceports, or taken them out before they got so many spaceports.
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I agree... If the conditions were not specified before game, than anything goes. One thing though. People will notice when others are being "cheap" in the game. duh right? the trick is, DON'T PLAY WITH THEM if they keep doing the same thing over and over. I do however think the EMP spamming is a legit strategy. Prove me wrong.
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True but all tactics. some may be annoying but if they work they can pay off for the player and it's not like the dude is cheating i say we rename it cheaping. besides the guy that cuts tubes is easy he can only cut 3 just keep rebuilding it he blow up sooner or later rofl. as far as building guards posts just be faster then them. all i'm saying is for anything there is always a counter nothing is unbeatable not a scout rush or anything else just wall your front door and then that convec scout rush EW rush won't do much good andsometime those tactics could be a final throw of the dice yet scout rush may be cheap but scouts are weak enough you could kick them and blow them up like 3 guards posts hooked to CC would own them fast
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Cost of 10 x Spaceports:
30 000 Common ore
5000 Rare ore
(3000 common, 500 rare a piece ?)
Cost of 10 x EMP Missiles:
30 000 Common ore
15 000 Rare ore
(3000 common, 1500 rare a piece ?)
Total:
60 000 Common
20 000 Rare
If you can't beat your opponent with this much ore to play with, you don't deserve to win. If your opponent has this much more ore than you, no way in hell you will win in any case..
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I do however think the EMP spamming is a legit strategy. Prove me wrong.
It's just barely possible to defend yourself against missile spamming, but try going on the offensive. Impossible. Unless you abuse vehicle trading to go way over the unit limit (but even then, it'll still take forever).
True but all tactics. some may be annoying but if they work they can pay off for the player and it's not like the dude is cheating i say we rename it cheaping. besides the guy that cuts tubes is easy he can only cut 3 just keep rebuilding it he blow up sooner or later rofl. as far as building guards posts just be faster then them. all i'm saying is for anything there is always a counter nothing is unbeatable not a scout rush or anything else just wall your front door and then that convec scout rush EW rush won't do much good andsometime those tactics could a a final throw of the dice yet scout rush may be cheap but scouts are weak enough you could kick them and blow them up like 3 guards posts hooked to CC would own them fast
If you think things like scout rushing are legitimate, you don't have a legitimate place in these kinds of discussions.
If you can't beat your opponent with this much ore to play with, you don't deserve to win. If your opponent has this much more ore than you, no way in hell you will win in any case..
They can have that much ore, but it might not be more than you do.
Before this goes on any further, all of you should try playing against a missile spammer. Then you'll see why I'm complaining about it so much.
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Fact remains - don't want missile spamming, make it a rule of the game (along with BM/AM, etc)
It just barely possible to defend yourself against an army of Tiger Thors/ESGs. Try going on the offensive when the other player has an army parked outside your base, or your CC surrounded with starflare lynx.
If you have that much ore - you should already have a similar number of spaceports as them, or you should have a lot of meteor defense.
Scout rushing, whilst cheap, is quite legitimate. If they can afford to waste their ore on that many scouts, you should be able to afford a few Guard Posts to stop them.
I have played a game where EMP missiles were used a fair bit (not quite spamming). The other player couldn't shoot my Lynx RPG army because he couldn't see them (lights off). By the time he saw them, they were at his base, and the EMP also affected his units.
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It just barely possible to defend yourself against an army of Tiger Thors/ESGs. Try going on the offensive when the other player has an army parked outside your base, or your CC surrounded with starflare lynx.
You can destroy an army parked outside your base. What you CAN'T do is destroy EMP missiles outside your base. Unless you build tubes and meteor defenses (which will get destroyed) all over the map. Dodging can only work when only one missile is launched... doesn't work when someone launches half a dozen at your army.
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Arklon i'm not saying scout rushing isn't cheap man but it's just a tactic as i said before work faster. and alls fair in love n war but don't be mad at someone because they used the tactic on you and you got killed which i'm guessing is the case(no offense) as most people who say oh thats not fair about a move have often been killed by it or had it used on them besides if they send a scout rush at you but you destroy it thats a decent waste of cash stop complaining about the cheap rushs and own them and make em pay for using stupid crap
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Why do you let your enemy get more than two spaceports in the first place?
If you give your opponent time to collect enough ore and do the research and build the spaceports, then in reality, you also should have got that amount of ore, If you are plymouht you could build spaceports yourself, if eden, you could build meteor defence, and still have lots of ore left over to build acid cloud, thors and EMP tiger weaponary.
I don't see any problems, eden has greater firepower and plymouth greater defence/disabling ability, in a long game!
Stop your whining and learn to play the game strategically
Missile spamming? Thats not spam its a tactic, that only happens because you let it!
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Mez (thumbsup)
Arklon, I played against Starfox on La Corrida. By the time he was finished making all his spaceports and collecting ore, I had a more than adequate defense of my base..
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Mez (thumbsup)
Arklon, I played against Starfox on La Corrida. By the time he was finished making all his spaceports and collecting ore, I had a more than adequate defense of my base..
And the defensive force, quickly became the offensive force (well knowing you it would of anyway)
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Mez (thumbsup)
Arklon, I played against Starfox on La Corrida. By the time he was finished making all his spaceports and collecting ore, I had a more than adequate defense of my base..
Yeah, and I just said it's barely possible to defend. And I recall that you said you had a problem going on the offensive.
Why do you let your enemy get more than two spaceports in the first place?
Pie Chart superrushes are old.
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and any tactic is legit if it works
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and any tactic is legit if it works
Then the "Dan's dog can make more ore" tactic is legit too?
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The main thing is on big maps missiles can grind any assault to a halt
I was playing a 2v1 on root canal and before hand we agreed no missiles, I was on the lower left corner and they are at the very top
Before missiles were used I was able to breach their bases multiple times, but reinforcements generated were able to shut my attack down right at their cc
after many of these attacks being repelled, and me repelling their attacks, we agreed they could use missles (they were ply I was eden) after that, I couldn't do much more then hold up in my base and wait for their missiles to break through my defense so they could run a nova into my tigers, I tried attacking, but each time my offense was emp'd way before it reached their colony, and novas and others mopped them up.
on large maps like such with both players holed up with few constricted entrances even without an attack mark it is almost impossible to rush and completely succeed thus only our agreement kept them from using missiles, and then we agreed out of boredom
also just to clarify I didn't originally agree to a 2v1 match, my teammate quit and I'm a stubborn bastard lol
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and any tactic is legit if it works
Then the "Dan's dog can make more ore" tactic is legit too?
They are a set of known cheats!
However it doesn't matter as they are disabled in the OPU version of the game
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Key word being tactics arklon not cheats a tactic is a set of plans that can work to your advantage in a fair way(unless you do this by exploiting a bug) cheats give you a unfair advantage like 10k metals in a second however i seem to recall that in 1.3.4 cheats have been taken out so why talk about them?
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cheating is considered a tactic, but is often one that will lose you opponets. Let's just say this: if it isn't a cheat, it's legit.
things that would be considered cheats:
1) codes (obviously)
2) trainers
3) intentionally breaking pre-arranged marks (build, attack, etc)
4) hacking (game or opponent's computer)
mass-missling is a strategy, and one that has been used for a VERY long time. Some of us know how to defend against it better than others apparently, and that is no reason to try to ban its use.
Suggestion:
Don't play on maps that easily support mass-missling (la corr, flood, etc) if you don't want to deal with it
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And the crown is handed to CK9 for outstanding ownage in this topic (thumbsup)
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Wow, this topic is still alive?
It brings memories of a game with a lot of people. I think it was me, some guy plymouth near me, Starfox and Tellaris, I think. A nice FFA. When I discovered the guy's starports, I sent Supernova to blow both his spaceports. Everyone went laughing!! After that, we began a massive missile war, and only after a LOOOONG WAR I managed to barely defeat his army. A shame I had to quit to sleep after, it was a such great battle!
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Yeah nobodys posted here in ages
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Ugh, thread necromancy.
Someone needs to lock this, the thread's been dead and it should stay that way.