Outpost Universe Forums
Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Divided Destiny => Topic started by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:52:31 AM
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These units if they could be added <_< . Would add a balance for the small eden units and the heavy plymouth units.
Eden Nitrogen Oil Grenade (NOG) is to rival the Sticky Foam.
Plymouth X-ray is to rival the Thors Hammer.
http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2311 (http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2311)
look there for more info.
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Come on people lol
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I just plain don't know. :unsure:
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lol say bad idea for names don't even fit into outpost 2 style
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What's with nitrogen oil? Nitrogen isn't an oil. I guess there is where you say something about oil being mixed with nitrogen or something. But the name just doesn't sound right. Besides, it doesn't seem like mixing nitrogen and oil would make much sense to me.
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Liquid Nitrogen and some kind of oil
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So what's the point of mixing them then? I think the oil might actually be solid at that temperature. Or at least very slow moving.
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These are good ideas, because it will balance the game out more. And they'll only be on special maps I'd assume. If you don't like them, don't play them.
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I am thinking of more of putting them on a multimap. And definatly putting them on a pie map.
And you know if enough people like it. Its a possiblity to put it in the entirty of the game
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I was just thinking that the granades would just be filled with liquid nitrogen, wich would freeze the joints and moters of the vec, as well as doing some dmg (mettal gets very brittle at that temp)
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that is why the liquid nitrogen is inside one half of the gernade and the oil in the other. and I already though of that by having a cold barrel. by cooling it with a heat bleader.
And if that doesnt work for people its call insulation by using some kind of plastic. on the inside of the barrel. And the heat bleader would still be used so that there isnt a sudden shock to the barrel when some thing that cold go through the barrel.
But then the Grenade its self could be insulated.
It would do some damage to the other vec but not much. And it would stop the movement of the vec becase the oil that would be used would expand when freezing like water does and jam things tight together.
As for the weapons not sounding OP2ish. They seem to be to me. Microwave weapon X-ray Weapon not much different. Eden using something over complicated and techy.
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The X-ray sounds OP2-ish. The other one I'm not so convinced of.
I think maybe one of the issues I have with it, is it's not sticky, but it still works like it. Seems like there needs to be a little more difference. Like how EMP and sticky are different, although similar. Similar is good. Eden needs some sort of delay tactic, but duplicating sticky doesn't work for me. What's different about this weapon?
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Sticky Foam is a simple tech very easy to make and such.
The "Cold Cannon" uses more extravogant way of stopping a vec using techs and different liquids that can only be produced in a lab
EMP and sticky may be different but emp cost more and does more then just stop a vec.
The eden weapon is simular to the sticky in the sence that it stops the vec but allows it to fire. As for it using ice and such. I didnt want a star trek sounding dampining feild weapon lol. It had to be a early tech but it also needed to stand away from the sticky because it uses different matterial. Not just some 2 part epoxy.
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I just found this out
X-ray Laser
G. H. Miley*
U.S. Air Force
B. Karabut et al. recently reported 1-2 keV x-ray laser
emission from metal targets such as Ti and Pd, which
serve as the cathode in a high-current deuterium glow
discharge. These experimental results are briefly reviewed
here. This unique laser provides a shorter wavelength and
more compactness than previously reported for tabletop
x-ray lasers. It is proposed that lasing is related to
anomalous transfer of energy through recoil events
when a highly loaded (D/metal atom ratio) metal hydride
is bombarded with a high current ion beam. Then energy
associated with the deuteron desorption/flow from the
overheated cathode surface creates nonequilibrium lattice
phonons, which excite a metastable super-cell state in the
loaded metal. An experimental-theoretical study of this
laser is under way at the University of Illinois at
Urbana-Champaign.
sounds intresting
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I think not that is a good idea that plymouth and eden have similar weapons; the interest of op2 it's precisely to find the favour compared to the other colony and destroy them!
in connection with the new weapon, I thought a firestar with some superconductive reels posed above, to imitate the tokamaks in full collapse, that could be fun... that wouldn't be the emp missile either ;)
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this is about the balance of the game there is no balance right now and they dont have simular weapons (othere then Mic/laser RPG/Rail EMP Starflare Acid/ESG) or eden would have some kind is delay weapon like the sticky all they get is EMP and that takes a little while to get. while Plymouth can get a sticky weapon which may not do much damage has a range and stopping power.
As for that Emp starflare/nova is vec that can be hit with a emp is not equal to a EMP missile because of the fact that meteor def cant take care of more then 2 missiles. That would cause a imbalance. And we alll know people love to emp missile the s*** out of eden because they have thor. If Plymouth has the X-ray weapon to rival the thor there wouldnt be such a need for massive bombarbment and the emp missile could go back into a defencive mode.
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Don't lie to yourself; people will still use massive EMP Missile bombardments.
They'll just use them less because of the new expensive units they can use.
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if they can make massive kick but machines i dont think they will use it. they will still use it and be gayer then ever lol
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but plymouth bombards already massively eden! when I go see the screenshots of the multiplayers games, it's ever a lot of thor's tigers against a lot of emp-supernovae tigers! and the world is domined by plymouth, they have 60% :blink:
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Actually, no, the Red Team has 60%, and both teams started with 50%. And I was on the red team, playing as Eden, getting a lot of land for red.
Red team doesn't mean Plymouth, and Blue team doesn't mean Eden.
And I think the last world domination game was a few months ago...
That was kinda off-topic, but that needed to be explained.
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Massive thor bombardments could be shut down with some help from the X-ray gun see. that way you dont have to rely on a one time use weapon like a supernova.
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yes but with this tactic, the winner is the guy who has the more of tigers :(
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It usually is any way even if you do use a EMP nova combo.
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1) Wouldn't the liquid nitrogen thing also freeze down the weapon system of a unit ? not just slow/stop it's movement..?
2) Freeza, have you ever played a 2 vs 2 game where Plymouth and Eden combined plays vs 2 others. Back in the days, the Eden player would supply the fighting means while the Pkymouth player carpet missiled the enemy forces. This tactic should be able to beat off most counteroffensives. With the Plymotuh X-ray thing, your basicly suggesting to combine Eden and Plymouths best offensive powers.
I don't know about the rest of you, but if I could get my hands on both "Thors Hammer" and EMP Missiles from the same colony, I'd be rubbing my hands and planning for World Domination.
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1 that is why there is Oil with the nitrogen and nitrogen vapor doesnt rise very high so the weapon would not get frozen. Pretty much freezing the wheels to the ground.
2 you are talking about a balanced game and a ideal situation. Dont forget people play 1v1 and Eden v Ply.
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plus if you read the origional post where we discusted these weaponds, the x-ray gun has disadvantages from the thor, mostly it is a LOS weapon, so it cant shoot over walls
so its not like it is a copy of thor
and yes the nitrogen gun has disadvantages on sticky, mabe instead of stopping it completly, it would just make them move very slowly, cause it dosnt really hold them, it just gums up the works in the joints, and freezes their oil
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Well i think it would be best to just stop them because making them go slow would involve setting a temp slow tile every time. i think not sure just guessing.
Any way i know you can freeze vec to the ground. I saw a Semi stuck in my yard once because the wheel were frozen to the ground. :D
The weapon would use some kind of oil or liquid that would freeze on because of the nitrogen. Think of it like a 2 part epoxy. Simular to the sticky yet different in the approach.
The Thor is the almight weapon the X-ray would not have the same damages that the thor does. Very simular to the Laser and Microwave. With the percussion and Penetration damage.
I have drawn up a X-ray turret but havent scanned it yet.
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I thought it could just temproarly set the vec speed to 50 or so, but your the programmer
and im not sure how well a thin layer of frozen oil will do against an all terrain with all wheel drive high torque, and designed to operate in areas with no paved roads
they would be alot tougher than a regular car, more like (for the lynx anyway) the army light combat vec, it also has 6 wheels and all 6 are powered, and its almost impossible to get that thing stuck
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well i dont know s*** about code so lol
that is why there is the Oil a high polymer (or some science term) that would make a object freeze solid and stronger then say water.
If there is a way to make them slower that would make more sence.
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hell making them move slower is easy, just mod the speed speed number in the sheets.vol, and I know also that reshurch can mod it the same way, so Im guessing that the special aspects of the wepponds (such as sticky and emp) also have that number in them, simply mod that number and you can make it so it only slows the vec, you could even make it so it speeds it up!!
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LOL that would be bad to speed them up. Unless you can make then careen into the nearest cliff and crash lol.
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that would be funny
make them move so fast that the game cant even map its trail yet lol
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Basicly what the 2 of you are up to is to make Eden and Plymouth more like eachother weapons wise. IMO, not a good idea.
So what if the X-Ray weapon will be a LoS wep. I've never heard of a Thor army spending 5 mins going around walls/buildings when it can blast it's way through.
Freeza, I see you mention X-ray won't do as much damage as Thor's Hammer, and that it will be very similar to Microwave and Laser.
Basicly, if you want a weapon to rival Thor's Hammer(Like you stated in the opening of this thread), that weapon will nead to have just about the same Damage and Range that the Thor's Hammer already have. If it lacks Range, Thor's will chew X-rays up at a distance. If it lacks Damage power, the purpose of the weapon is basically gone.
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yea, im not entirely sure what he ment by that eather, mabe its like mic or laser because its a beam weapon like they are
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Ok think of how the damage is for the laser and the microwave the laser is slightly weaker. that is how the X-ray would be. Because lets face it Lightning is hotter then the surface of the sun. The X-ray laser wont do as much concussive force as the Thor but it will do the same or greater penitration. The reason behind this is becase lightning no matter how accurate they make it sound is going to arch off at different part of the target vec. how ever a laser is pinpoint weapon and would blast through armor. When the concussive and penetration of both are added up the should be very close to equal. The ranges will be equal tho.
You dont want them to be exactly the same then you would have a definate stalemate. And if the damages dont come out the be as close as i had planned then the price for buidling(or the total time) the X-ray weapon would go down so more could be built to shore up the numbers.
I am sorry if i dont make myself clear all the time mostly because i have it all figured in my head and dont want to type it all out.
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that is true, except for one problem, in the game the thor has no cuncussion dmg, its all penatration dmg
so Im thinking that the xray would convert some of the penatration into cuncussion, that would weakon the wep a little bit, and it would make sence, cause lightning would blast right through armor, while an x ray beam can be stopped by thick armor
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Ah i see so X-ray would have to be less penetraion and have more consussive force. But it should equal to about the same in the overkilling power that the thor has lol
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why not a gamma ray cannon? gamma rays are stronger than xrays, and penetrate anything except for a lead sheet or really thick concrete
plus it could cause immobility due to its radioactivness
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too high tech for ply I think, x-rays are used for medical centers so they would know how to generate and direct them
in fact, why dont you make it so that ply need to reshurch med centers before they can make the x-ray guns
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Because to get a gamma ray that strong you would have to tow a MHD behind the vec.
And i think the Eden coverd the gamma ray weapons with the meteor def.
Also i didnt want gamma ray because every one else uses gamma ray as there most powerful weapon.
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true, it is so much of a sci fi staple, that its becoming a clishe
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I have seen a few games that use Beta and Alpha rays
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i think any weapons based on roman phonetics is out ;)
im pretty sure all the weapon types are covered in op2: mass driver, energy, particle, ray/particle, chemical, electromagnetic, mines, standoff weaponry... i think thats really all you can do without getting into really strange and non-op2 stuff.
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maybe a drilling machine to drill insuperable ditches, no? with the robodozer to clog them
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Well, you still have mortars, sonic weapons, plasma and impact weapons to get..
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Ok
Sonic weapons will not work on new terra because there is so little Air. They use sound if some one doesnt know.
Mortars Would be nice but its a simple tech so it would be a Plymouth weapon. But the range of mortars would far exceed the thors hammer and would be very deadly. Not to mention that is really hard to get a projectile to look like its arching in the game.
I did think of a plasma based flame thrower because you dont need O2 to have plasma. But the range would be so short that it would be own by every other unit in the game. Would have been a eden unit by the way.
Impact weapons is that like battering rams lol. Meat Mr. Super Nova and Mrs Star Flare. RPG and the Rail gun are impact weapons. both use projectiles that do direct damage.
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have you noticed? the op2 weapons aren't so advanced: all weapons can be realize today, in the reality <_<
I had thought about a great motor cultivator to cut the tubs, the big lame could be armed when the light are lit (thumbsup)
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we can make alot of these weapons today but not at the scale they are in the game.
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With impact weapons I was thinking more along the lines of machineguns.
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why would someone start building machine guns and spend the ore and production fascilities to make tonnes of bullets when energy based weapons are obviously so cheap and easy to build in op2???
why isnt there more consideration for more spider tech? or AIR UNITS???
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Machine guns are not plauseble because they cant do s*** to armor.
Air Units can not work on New Terra because of the Atmosphere. The best you could have is a Sub orbital bomber but i think that takes away from the game alot and makes it more like C&C.
Well he reason there isnt alot of spider tech is because Eden can own all spiders in range. And they are to slow. The Crab unit is a Idea i gave the Genesis people. Its a 1/3 Starflare blast. The idea is that it uses its claws to latch on to the armor and then blow up lol. Mostly the reason you cant have alot of techs for Arachnid units is that there Size. Mostly I could see a speed upgrade. And a heat dissipation or Refinded lens that would make the laser fire a tile further.
Along the lines of making like Thor scorps and such that is just bs they dont have the power plants to do such a thing. At best i think the Sticky would work lol.
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lets keep this as simple and unintrusive as we can, you started this to make 2 weps, and thats what were going to do, starting to make new weps and vecs will only mess the game up even more
remember, the entire point of this is to help balance op2, lets not go overboard
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yes but like all threads this one has suffered the fate of dreams and debate lol.
Ya I plan on sticking with the Nitrogen Cannon and the X-ray.
But is seems people dont really like it that much. I guess they just dont like eden and giving them a chance is going to f*** up how they play instead of trying to work around it. but damages and ranges wont be exactly the same as there counter part like every other weapon in op2.
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Actually Freeza, even if you give Plymouth a Thor's Hammer like unit, you won't solve the balance issue of High Mark games.
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Duplicating weapons won't solve anything. It'll likely unbalance things more. Remember that Plymouth has those annoying EMP missiles and such, and Eden has other unique perks. Don't try to make them have the same exact things (just with different approaches), or they'll both essentially be the same colony, just with different GFX.
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The only way it will be thors hammer like will be the range and rate of rife. The only thing that resemble each other is the Sticky and Cold Cannon.
Yes i know ply still has the damn EMP missile. People that rely on it usually do so because there afraid of thor. And any one that uses 20 missile in a row on the same spot just to punch throught the met def is complete BS.
Any way i am going to add these to different copy of op2 i am not trying to add this to the game and demaned every one like it and use it.
As far as the EMP missile is concerned I have a Idea about that. It involves the Eden starport. A interceptor missile that you have to launch manually. it will kill any missile. but you have to do it manually. Adding the human factor of launching it make it interesting and alot better then a AI launching it.
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Why take away Plymouths best weapon ?
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did i take it away no i didnt i made a counter measure. that has to be launched manualy thus human error or speed would be involved. Also because alot of dip s***s abuse the EMP missile by using a s*** load at once.
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but eden already has a counter measure, of corse it cant be used to protect an attacking force, but it can sucessfuly protect your defence force from getting emp'd
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yes but it needs to be fixed or some thing because people punch through it with multi missiles.
I was thinking of outter colony def. more then the inner because i think its bs that your whole armada is taken down with one shot.
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well according the polls people arnt likeing the origional changes, so I doubt adding more will help your cause
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Freeze, really.. Your getting way out of line now I think.
Adding a few weapons would be good, at least if they were well thought through before adding them. However what your getting at here would completely change the gameplay of OP2.
I'm really not one to lecture people about how this game is to be played, but really, if you knew the game as well as I do, you would understand these ideas isn't gonna do much good.
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Well you assume I dont know s*** about the game according to that responce. but what ever.
I have to keep adding to it because you people keep saying well they have this and they have that. All I simply wanted to do was add a few units to balance power. No reason to insult me
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It's way more like carbon copying power.
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aircraft are possible on new terra. the end.
why would they not be? contrary to popular belief new terra does have an atmosphere, its thin and mostly co2. exactly like mars. guess what? mars aircraft are possible, have been designed and a mission using one is set to launch in 2012 by the esa.
there is nothing saying aircraft isnt possible. especially since the term aircraft is vague and doesnt have to mean aircraft the way we think of them on earth.
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why would they not be? contrary to popular belief new terra does have an atmosphere, its thin and mostly co2.
And the Blight apparently released oxygen (dioxygen) and water (dihydrogen monoxide) into the atmosphere.
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makeing it much thicker, still there is a huge difference between small flying probes and bombers designed to carry tens of thousands of pounds of bombs, but nothing is impossible
but still aircraft just dont feel very op2, mabe air units in op3, but not op2
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Well this seems to be going no where so i am going to close it thanks for the input and such.