Outpost Universe Forums

Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Divided Destiny => Topic started by: Freeza-CII on November 29, 2005, 03:39:06 PM

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on November 29, 2005, 03:39:06 PM

Ok i am bored when i get off work and all that and have nothing to do.  So i thought i would make a new unit for eden to rival the sticky foam.

Now Eden is more of a Tech orianted where as ply is more simplistic

I want some people to come up with some names and a basic description of how it works.

yes i know I cant add it to the game but some day maybe and there is always OP3 to look forward to.

So have at it people a Eden weapon that can rival the Sticky foam.


Oh yes moogle if you say any thing dumb ill delete it as soon as I see it.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: dm-horus on November 29, 2005, 08:03:45 PM

I read this 3 hours ago and ive been thinking about it since then. im pretty sure emp takes care of this. i think stickyfoam was just an idea someone on the original op2 dev team (or the writer) REALLY wanted in-game. other than that it serves no real purpose. it damages units only in large numbers and then only very slightly and all it does is stop the enemy vehicles from moving but doesnt disable them. enemy units are still combat effective in the face of stickyfoam.

the only thing that can prevent a tank from moving are 1) for it to be disabled 2) for the terrain it is on to be impassable. stickyfoam does  #2 and emp does #1 or both (depending upon how you look at it). the only thing i could think of is to have maybe a zero point energy weapon that stops all molecular momentum and essentially "freezes" the target in space. or you could remove the tank from its only means of locomotion - the ground. a gravity gun that lifts units up in the air, if only slightly. removing them from the ground would stop their advance but still allow them to be comab effective, just like the stickyfoam.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: lordly_dragon on November 29, 2005, 08:30:12 PM

i come up with the idea of something more crazy than that :artificial ice that freeze the locomotion of a unit the only difference beetween the stickyfoam and this one would be more damage for ice (freeze some oil or any fluid and you break up vital part of a tank easily) but no splash dmg .

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on November 29, 2005, 08:38:29 PM

howabout a plasma web?

it would launch a canister that would unleash a plasma contained within a magnetic field around the unit it would stop the unit from moveing, and would dmg it quite alot

idea loosely baised on the jeep from UT2K4

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Sirbomber on November 29, 2005, 08:40:29 PM

Isn't that a little... too high-tech? Even for Eden.

Maybe a nanite (or whatever those little robot thingies are) launcher that attaches itself to the vehicle(s) and releases electricity which overload the vehicle's movement control systems and damage it.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on November 29, 2005, 08:45:00 PM

howabout just haveing rail guns be able to make a crater in the ground around the enemy unit, thus stopping it untill it can crawl out of the crater, it would give a use to the current little used middle weppon

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Harky on December 02, 2005, 12:08:23 AM

Maybe like a magnetic mine which  is lieka n esg mine.. but the unit gets stuck on it for the same duration as stickfoam... wouldent be to hard to add and implement..

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Harky on December 02, 2005, 12:10:28 AM

have a 9 square effect like stickfoam too
 

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: HaXtOr on December 02, 2005, 12:20:13 AM

moogles non lethal alternitive

bubble foam cannon-sprays attacking vehicles with tons of soap suds and oil so they get stuck and cant move

(mud and such would be created as they tryed to move) this would also mess up their accuracy and range. tanks would be abble to move but accuracy is down and range


dirt cannon-  launches a big ball of dirt at your apponent burrying them in dirt and jamming thier wheels.


beanbag cannon- fires multiple bean bags at your apponent confuseing them and reduceing their accuracy and range. also has WTF factor :D


 

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 02, 2005, 12:24:29 AM

hmm very interesting ideas.

The sticky foam may be weapon that doesnt do what a emp can but both sides have a emp and sticky can be gotten alot faster then emp and is cheaper plus it can do building damage.  

I like this Ice idea.  Perhaps it could work like the acid cloud and use a cloud of quickly dissipating Liquid nitro or some other liquidized gas.  Or possibly have it like esg to and have some kind of mine that releases this gas and freezes the wheels and such.   How ever ice really wouldnt do much damage at all but i like it none the less.

Those are interesting but not the right kind of game moogle.  And i am looking for op2 style suggestions.  If i was making a side view multi tank style game  then those would be good.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: BlackBox on December 02, 2005, 02:46:14 PM

Hehe. Perhaps a unit that can create a more indirect effect, for example being able to stimulate a disaster.

You know, we could probably modify an existing unit to make this happen. We already know enough about how it repaints itself, and how it retrieves stats on itself. Just modify those functions and you have a - somewhat - new unit.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Tellaris on December 02, 2005, 03:05:06 PM

0.o
That is worse then the homing vortexes....

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Sirbomber on December 02, 2005, 03:06:01 PM

I already tried making a vortex scorp, an elec storm scorp, a meteor scorp, and a volcano scorp. They lal crashed the game, but then again I'd guess you'd be doing something different.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Hooman on December 02, 2005, 07:15:11 PM

I have a small idea how to get a vehicle to spawn a disaster. It might need a bit of work though. Kinda reminds me of the thumper troopers in Dune 2000. They'd attract worms.  :)  

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 03, 2005, 02:43:14 AM

LOL summoning a mighty vortex to rival a sticky isnt what i had in mind tho it would be very funny.

Any way I thought about that liquid freezing gun. and I came up with this

(http://freeza.outpostuniverse.net/Drawings/Cold-Cannon.jpg)

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: TRIX Rabbit on December 03, 2005, 12:59:21 PM

to rival the supernova, eden should have a demotruck-like weapon. you put the bomb in a cargotruck or a convec, and when it selfdestructs or is destroyed, it explodes in a fashion weaker than a supernova, but leaves a 5 square radius of radioactive ground that damages vehicles for a short time (like on Red Alert 2).

to rival the stickfoam, an improved laser, that over heats the movement computer only, but the turret must always be facing the target to heat it, or the IR wave go away and it cools down. (against buildings, it overheats the life support or ventalation system, but it still must face the target then too) \:D

or a gun that sends signals to a computer telling it to work so hard, it hurts itself. weapons would be stronger, but they would lose health quite quickly
 

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: zanco on December 03, 2005, 10:10:55 PM

I am sorry to barge in the topic like this, but: Why should Eden have a weapon that rivals StickyFoam?

In my view, there is already balance on both side. Before playing a game, you decide if you either want to have diverse type of weaponery with relatively medium power of destruction in the early marks OR you decide to wait and have units with a considerably huge power of destruction. If you decide you want to launch early attacks on your opponent then you will choose Plymouth; if however you decide to fight off every attacks and wait to get the ultimate weapon then you choose Eden. Just like I said earlier to Freeza-II on irc, it's a trade-off.

All this boils down to telling you that if such a unit is constructed (implemented) for Eden then the game will no longer have any balance. I am not saying that nobody should think about coming up with new units; I am merely telling you to take the balance into account. If there is no balance, the game will collapse... so to speak.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 03, 2005, 10:24:48 PM

Eden only has 2 units that they can get quickly and ply has 3.

Yes Yes your going to SAY THORS HAMMER well that dont help no one if you cant get to it because your getting raped by levi and his might sticky mic army.  Plus Plymouth has RPG which seems to do more then rail and ESG which has a better Area damage then Acid cloud.  Acid cloud is good like ESG but doesnt do the absolute damage of ESG. Thors hammer has the power of a Supernova but doesnt have the area effect of Supernova.  Laser is weaker then Microwave.  EMP is good but both have it.

The late ablity of Eden and the Early ablity of Plymouth make it so that in any rush eden will most likely loose.

get my drift lol

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: zanco on December 03, 2005, 10:53:36 PM

Quote

Eden only has 2 units that they can get quickly and ply has 3.
Yes Yes your going to SAY THORS HAMMER

Yes I am (lol).

Code: [Select]

that dont help no one if you cant get to it because your getting raped by levi and his might sticky mic army

...

Quote

The late ablity of Eden and the Early ablity of Plymouth make it so that in any rush eden will most likely loose.

Getting raped by levi?? lol! Are you just looking for a way to win rush using Eden? If so, I suggest harnessing your defense instead of "bending" the tech tree.

And we could argue again, again, again, and again about the balance that exists in the game by comparing units' power, but I'd rather not do that. Just like you said, if you want to win rush and after assessing your opponent's might, you see that Eden has no chances then use Plymouth.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 03, 2005, 11:01:14 PM

I think we could use a little variety, weve been playing with the same weps for years, haveing a new one or two would make us come up with new stratigys, freshen the game up a bit

of corse balance would be an issue, but thats what testing is for (wich I'm eager to partisapate in lol)

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: zanco on December 03, 2005, 11:20:20 PM

Quote

I think we could use a little variety

if this is your (our) ultimate goal, then I will say "let's do it." that sounds like a reasonable ... reason. I think it's a great idea; it is be great to create units in order to break a certain monotomy. Saying (somehow) that Plymouth outmatches Eden is just not right.
 

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 03, 2005, 11:27:53 PM

With a 3rd early unit eden  can defend against a No attack marks game or rush.  Plus when the game progresses to the point of ESG RPG EMP and THOR EMP who really uses the Sticky not much.  To make it Simple the defence of Eden sucks ass because of the sticky.  the GPs can be wiped out by the sticky and there for make them usless to build.  Lasers fire to slow early on and they dont get a speed boost till you get thor then there isnt a point any more so if you want to win as eden you either need more ORE production for vecs or a alli.  But with a unit that can rival the sticky the table are turned and a balance is created in the lower units.  The higher units are already off balanced.  Eden has the advantage in the long rung with EMP Acid and Thor.  Meaning Ply needs  a heavy weapon that can rival thor.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: zanco on December 03, 2005, 11:41:22 PM

I didn't want to get into this kind of discussion... Oh Well!

Are you saying that you as Eden (or anyone else for that matter) will have a chance of beating Levi as Plymouth (or anyone else for that matter) if Plymouth is to not use its dreadful savage-like destroying and unstoppable StickyFoam?

If you are also saying that Eden is has a disadvantage in the early marks of the games then you should also think about the disadvantage of Plymouth in the late marks of the games ( trade-off). Then how about "a Plymouth unit to Rival Thor Hammer" ? Why didn't you think of that?

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 03, 2005, 11:44:04 PM

Quote

Eden has the advantage in the long rung with EMP Acid and Thor. Meaning Ply needs a heavy weapon that can rival thor.

LOL i already said it
Eden will get owned by ply early on for sure.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: zanco on December 03, 2005, 11:49:36 PM

:heh: Yeah... Redundancy.

Alright you won, you got me there. Still when you think of something like Creating  new units, you have to be as neutral as possible. Try to keep the balance!

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 03, 2005, 11:52:23 PM

Fine ill dream up a heavy weapon for ply while i am at it

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: zanco on December 03, 2005, 11:57:51 PM

Works for me! I will be Plymouth voice and you will be Eden's.  ;)  

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:02:35 AM

I am thinking X-Rays There more powerful then microwaves and visible light.  YES YES i know some one is going to say they will just bounce off but so would microwaves.  That is why they are in a concentrated coheriant beam.

Really who would like to blast deadly Xrays into a colony lol

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 04, 2005, 12:06:04 AM

so an x-ray gun for ply to rival thor, and a liquid nitrogen granade (or somthing) for eden to rival sitcky

seems about right

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:07:33 AM

yup sure is now i have to draw up another turret
 Its all about simple techs verses eden techs lol

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 04, 2005, 12:10:41 AM

now to get technical, x-rays would be a line of sight weppon (its still a beam) so it would have that disadvantage on thor

so I beleave the liquid nirtrogen granade will have to have a simmiler drawback, such as it dosnt hold as long, since it holds with ice and frozen joints instead of buckytubes

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:15:04 AM

Microwave as well would be a line of sight weapon to.

But when you think about a thor should beable to fire over wall because the thors hammer uses a targeting beam and trying to fire over a wall would result in missing or grounding out on the wall and blowing it to smitherings.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 04, 2005, 12:19:49 AM

microwaves are a line of sight weppon

ive thought of that, and yes it is true that the weppon is directed by a proton beam, I think the sensor and targeting system is more sophisticated than that

it may be able to detect the ionazation of its suroundings than thus use that to manipulate the beam so that the lighting would hit the target

for example, to fire over a wall into a building, it would know what the ionazation of the building is, and thus it would point the beam over the building, but the lightning would be attracted to the building and thus move in an arc over the wall

thats probly the reasion in the noliva thor had such targeting problems in the beginning, it didnt know how the ionazation would bend the lightning

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:22:37 AM

so your saying that the ionazation of another area could bend the lightning sounds like it would work to me.

 

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 04, 2005, 12:25:29 AM

it should, thats how lightning rods work lol

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:26:58 AM

LOL a lightning rod lynx.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 04, 2005, 12:30:51 AM

lol thats a nifty little idea, of corse such a simple trick wouldnt fool the sophistacated sensors and computers, it would detect the ionazation, and compensate

well lets hold this off till tomarrow to see what the rest of the comunity thinks about this, you should set up a poll

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:32:35 AM

well i think such a vec would be a novelty lol.  Set up a poll for what?

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: HaXtOr on December 04, 2005, 01:46:22 AM

EMI Cannon

makes units go crazy wandering off and fireing randomly at things. for a certain period of time. on less shielded units they can become fried compleately forever stuck in crazy mode till you repair them

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 12:21:54 PM

what is EMI and the ai isnt that smart lol. and how exactly would that work

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 04, 2005, 12:38:47 PM

I think he is talking about electromagnetic interferience

clever idea, but you would know that the friend or foe sensor is proteen baised, so EMI wouldnt make it go bazerk, although somthing that destrioed the proteen cores, like blight, would

Quote

While the electro-optical logic unit handles most of the TAFT's functions, a protein-based pattern recognition unit is used to identity hostile and friendly units, and to select an appropriate threat response. 

from guardpost in the help file

poll as in asking the rest of the forum if their for or against putting these new weps in, we wouldnt want to change the game like this without the concent of the cumminety

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: HaXtOr on December 04, 2005, 01:35:01 PM

EMI - Electro magnetic interfearence... reason why you have all the extra metal parts in monitors and computer cases that often i take out lol can lead to random thingts not working right and things getting wrong signals such as cell phones and tvs.

its not so much as the unit its self would be goign crazy its more like the unit is recieveing random commands causeing it to go nuts.  you can command your units to fire on your own structures and such

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 02:15:03 PM

Its a interesting idea but wouldnt it be easier to emp them lol  And take over if your ply.

I like to call it IFF Identify Friendly or Foe.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Betaray on December 04, 2005, 02:58:26 PM

yea, thats what I was going for, I couldnt remember the acronim though

so you should set up a poll for the x-ray cannon, and the liquid nitrogen granades yay or nay

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Sirbomber on December 04, 2005, 03:25:00 PM

Don't forget "Mayhaps" and "OP2 is perfection incarnate" for lev.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 03:43:38 PM

I have set one up look in the polls section to find it.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Hooman on December 04, 2005, 06:02:18 PM

You know, it'd likely be easier to add new units to specific levels than to the game as a whole. So new units could end up being level specific items. Not such a bad thing for people that don't want the original game changed.
 

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Freeza-CII on December 04, 2005, 06:34:28 PM

That sounds good but how can you add them with out having to replace some thing else.

Title: A Eden Unit
Post by: Hooman on December 04, 2005, 06:40:52 PM

Well, create a new UnitTypeInfo (just what I call the class type, no names are left in the exe so I created one here for my use) class, and implement a new CreateUnit function. You also need a new Unit class to be created by this function. It will have to fit within 120 bytes. A number of memory locations are expected to have certain values though. So it's not such a bad idea to call a constructor for one of the existing unit types on your new unit. It's also not such a bad idea to clone the virtual function table of an existing unit, since a lot of virtual functions exist and it'd be a REAL pain to implement them all. (That and we don't know what they all do). Then, you'd probably want to override specific functions in that cloned virtual function table to implement your custom unit behaviour.

As for how to get the unit created in game... I'm not sure yet. You can certainly create one yourself in code. But to have one built at say a vehicle factory would require a bit more work.