Outpost Universe Forums
Off Topic => General Interest => Topic started by: dm-horus on November 21, 2005, 04:12:05 AM
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Say what you think it is.
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nothingnessness
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er....googling this, its some kind of odd thing but it ends up a sphere
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nothing I can think of fits it
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logically, a sphere, as it doesn't loos or gain mas, and it does not streatch
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a sphere turner inside out? as a pair of socks?
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have you guys never taken a balloon or somthing spherical inside-out ?
it's still a sphere, but with the inside showing on the outside. Anyway: no googling needed for me: a sphere.
Nice poll, btw!
get some more of these
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I think it's a torus (you spelled wrong, :P )
I can't remember exactly why, all I can really think about is things like d-orbitals and such of atoms. They have toruses in them.
I think I did hear something like this somewhere though.
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I did it in Blender. :P
It says it's the same thing turned inside out :o
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Hmm, a torus sounds like something you tried to turn inside out and got stuck doing it. :P
But then, can you turn a sphere inside out? If it's a closed shape, and you can't move it through itself, then it should be rather impossible to turn it inside out, or so I would think. Unless this is a trick question about ebedding it in a higher dimension first. But yeah, if this is a question about reversing the side of the shape, so the outside now points inside, then it'd still form a sphere.
Hmm, seems like we need a few questions involving a klein bottle or a mobius strip.
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Taurus... they're excellent vehicles (even the ones from '94)! But alas, I have a corolla and I love it! :D
Great poll though! Get's ya thinking!
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Hmm, a torus sounds like something you tried to turn inside out and got stuck doing it. :P
But then, can you turn a sphere inside out? If it's a closed shape, and you can't move it through itself, then it should be rather impossible to turn it inside out, or so I would think. Unless this is a trick question about ebedding it in a higher dimension first. But yeah, if this is a question about reversing the side of the shape, so the outside now points inside, then it'd still form a sphere.
Hmm, seems like we need a few questions involving a klein bottle or a mobius strip.
hooman.. (as theoretical as always) at his best! :P
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Hooman has reason, how we return the balloon? it is necessary to drill a hole in the balloon, and a perforated sphere, it isn't a sphere, I would see rather a plane, a few very twisted as a vase with an enormous capacity and a little opening... and we can't clog the hole, it is cheating if not :D
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Heh. I try. (thumbsup)
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Not enough information.
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I know there is a "right" answer, but that wasnt really what I was looking for here. If you had to google for an answer then you failed :P The point was (to me which was also not mentioned on purpose) to see how you visualize objects and spacial relationships. The two answers you could give which would pique my interest are the torus and the sphere. Mathematically, it is possible to turn a sphere inside out but giving the answer as sphere can mean one of several things. The person already knows the answer. The person looked up the answer. The person simply assumes that there would be no difference in shape, only in which side faces out. The person answers the most "logical" choice in their mind. The latter indicates how the person views logic. Answering sphere may indicate a logical thought process. All these possibilities also go toward the answer of torus, but this has some interesting extras. If you cancel out (within certain tolerances) surface areas which (may) come into contact when turning a sphere inside out, the result is a torus. When turning the equatorial surface of a sphere inside out the polar surface (in 'reality' being all other parts of the sphere) areas collapse toward one another. Upon contact one may cancel them out. When the equatorial surfaces are fully inverted, they fold in upon themselves forming a new envelope which is internally contained. The surface is closed and becomes a solid. A torus. Answering torus indicates procedural thinking. This was also my answer. While the answer may not be "right" it is an indication of another form of thinking. My theory is that logic is not always the best form of deductive reasoning.
But I never really put this much thought into it when I created the poll, but (even at a casual level) this was my reasoning. :P
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the kepler's conjecture she say "any closed and not perforated form can be comparable with a sphere"! if I remember good... so we have two categories of shapes: the torus and the others thing! that induce one chance on two to have the right answer ;)
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I do not see how mass can cancel out mass, even at a mathematical level, and math used to be my thing!
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WTF is a "torus" ?
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a torus? it's a tire without a rim (thumbsup)
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I'd show you a picture, but I don't want to
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A torus is a donut. :)
I'm inclined to believe that logical thinking is the best form of "deductive" reasoning.
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and there's only one way I remember of getting a torus: taking a 2d circle and rotating it along an axis in a 3d plane
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Mmm, yes. Volumes of revolution. But that refers to the area traced out by the circle as it's rotated. That and it needs to be away from the origin to really produce a torus.
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a tokamak works with a plasma torus
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have you tried the virtual tokamak simulator on mit fermilab site? it really gives you an appreciation for the technology. if you havent tried it, look its up. just google for "tokamak simulator"
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I didn't get that long explanation of how a sphere becomes a torus. It seems to me, that since all sides of a sphere are curved inwards, it would be impossible to turn it inside out without changing the way the sides are curved. If you do that, it will no longer be originally a sphere that you were tried to invert.
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The current problem with tokamaks is that they can't produce enough power to compensate for the ammount of power it takes to start them up and sustain them
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CK9, it depends on how you look at it. The initial energy cost in starting the tokamak is greater than the energy it produces, but once the reactor is powered up it sustains itself. think about it like pushing a car up a hill. when you start pushing the car at the base of a hill and get it to the top, youre very tired. but when you push the car and it coasts down the hill, you always come to a stop farther from the hill than you started. there would be an energy price tag to pay to get the reactor started, but once going (and suitably maintained) the reactor would provide more energy over a longer period of time. The main problem with current tokamaks is that superconductive materials have to be super-cooled and this costs alot in refrigeration or in terms of the energy that goes into refining chemical coolants. Current designs would be very efficient if they were actually built how theyre supposed to be. the only 2 tokamaks in existance use inferior superconductors in place of ones that do not exist as of yet. i do know that much interest has been put into carbon nanotube superconductors, but i dont know how far along this is. i stopped looking up info on tokamaks a couple years ago.
also, the question of if you can turn a sphere inside out is really asking: Can you turn a sphere inside out without flattening any curve into a sharp edge? in otherwords, can you do it without folding the sphere? the question is mathematical and not realistic. if you look at the question realistically, the answer changes. this is why i asked the question.
A persons perspective and manner of thinking determines the answer.
Mathematically, yes, a sphere can be turned inside out. realistically it cannot and is impossible within the constraints of the question.
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I think you need to better define what you mean by turning it inside out.
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the point was to leave the question somewhat vague :P while there is a right answer, i wasnt looking for one.
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If tokamaks take too much power to run then maybe a couple people on bikes could start them up.
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