Outpost Universe Forums
Off Topic => General Interest => Topic started by: Stormy on October 02, 2005, 02:03:49 AM
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This is referring to the question in the "Info Released" topic about OP3 having an Economy. What do you think?
Edit: Ok so basically a structure for this, just a morale booster, like Plymouth's Forum. Trade would trade ore etc between colonies? It would also increase morale... people trading to get new things.
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I see mostly the op2 trade system and the some thing like the trade system from AOE2. Trade resource for resources great for allies and dictators. As for a inner colony thing i guess you would have to please the masses with orgies and beer LOL. Any way the inner colony type stuff would just me a morale booster or some kind of production booster when build or made.
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Trade as a morale booster and trade as a mean to transfer ownership of a vehicle are ok and also realistic. Nevertheless, trade as a mean to convert commen ore/metal to rare or vice versa isn't. In AoE it is realistic, because merchants are assumed to be everywhere and get the ressources from anywhere - where would a merchant in Outpost3 get metals? The colonys are still very much isolated and the planet isn't mass-populated.
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The reason ore is traded is for ALLIES to help one another....
But you might be right...
The economy is more of the morale and things that come from it.
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To trade with other colonies and not hoard all to them selfs but better then transfering cargo trucks with stuff in them just a set of buildings that can send and recieve stuff from other colonies
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I don't think a full blown economy is really necessary. A simple trade system like OP2 has would work great.
But with a few additions like:
-- able to trade Ore
-- able to trade Colonists
-- maybe trade spaceships or satellites/starship modules?
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id rather go for a simpler and more appliyed to the game trade system than the other, as long as its realistic.
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I don't think a full blown economy is really necessary. A simple trade system like OP2 has would work great.
But with a few additions like:
-- able to trade Ore
-- able to trade Colonists
-- maybe trade spaceships or satellites/starship modules?
Lol, This is just what happened to leeor, that's exactly what I was trying to say... But I couldn't really put it into words. ;)
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yeah i agree cous the word Economy holds a lot mroe then just some trading etc ... and we dont need it. but i slight boost in morale isnt a bad idea if you trade things
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To trade with other colonies and not hoard all to them selfs but better then transfering cargo trucks with stuff in them just a set of buildings that can send and recieve stuff from other colonies
Transfering it without cargo-trucks... sounds good. Its a pain in op2 to load ore/metals into cargo-trucks before it can be traded.
Sending it through tubes is not a good solution when colonies are far away from each other. We could still just transfer the ressources (without trucks/tubes), but that would make most of the trading process invisible and I think thats not good either.
My suggestion: vehicle should be tradeable (as in op2). Ressources should only be directly tradeable if colonies are connected by tubes.
To trade Colonists without a tube connection Evacuation transports should be loadable with Colonists somehow.
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Hmm ok maybe a new structure? Or have loading docks at all the residences to load colonists.
2ndly, The tube system will allow transfering of people etc. if the Players are allied with each other.
Sound good?
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Oh yeah Tubes. It should be possible to 'share' CCs and other resources with allied bases. For example if your CC dies the allie's CC can help keep your base running.
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Adding on to Hacker's post:
Your colonists (the ones who's CC died) would go to the allie's colony so that they don't die.. You couldn't really do much unless they provided for your colony; IE they would have to build residences for both colonies to share, more ore storage, But the only structures that are connected to the tube leading to the surviving colony may 'send' people. If the ones that aren't connected b/c the CC blew up get connected again, then they move to the other colony.
Maybe Quote this and 'revise' it as a group?
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Your post doesn't make sense to me stormy. Can you clarify it?
What comes to my mind about this:
- allied CC's can probably be used to control allied structures, so that if player1 builds an Agridome that is only connected to a CC from player2 who is allied with player1 the Agridome is operational.
- If a structure is no longer connected to any CC it is not operational
- a player can probably take over structures of another colony if these structures are not connected to a CC that belongs to the other Colony or one of its allieys.
We have to decide which ways of "colonist-transportation" shall be possible. (ie. how they come from one place on a planet to another place on the planet)
In Outpost2 they can just get to any CC-connected structure on the map, no tube connection needed nor an Evac-transport. Evac-transpors are only needed in the campaigns to move over great distances.
The colonist-transportation-system will effect the ways colonists can be traded.
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We could always add the monorail system from Outpost 1. That would be fun... :-)
As far as an economy, I'm not sure if was suggested already but the whole commerce bit through trading could be boosted (e.g., lesser taxes/expenses/whatever). Kinda like in AOE2 where you can do research
But I guess that means you'd have to designate certain artery tubes to be 'commerce' sections....
Wow... Age of Empires, Outpost 2 and SimCity all rolled into one! What a game! :D
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can you sell colonitst to your enimie as slaves or better yet steal colonists from your opponent and make them slaves? Or even better hold them hostange killing one every 2 clicks
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Well, I guess that's a possibility for a MOD.
I can see it now: Outpost 3: Slave Traders -- the new expansion pack from neptuneTECH! Steal your enemy's people, line them up in front of your GP's and wait 'til they move, make the clean the inner chambers of the tokomak with a sponge and a tablespoon of salt!
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I can see it now: Outpost 3: Slave Traders -- the new expansion pack from neptuneTECH! Steal your enemy's people, line them up in front of your GP's and wait 'til they move, make the clean the inner chambers of the tokomak with a sponge and a tablespoon of salt!
Yea, a possibility for a MOD, not for the plain game.
As far as an economy, I'm not sure if was suggested already but the whole commerce bit through trading could be boosted (e.g., lesser taxes/expenses/whatever). Kinda like in AOE2 where you can do research
Great idea.
The commerce in the tubes...
The tubes in Op2 where used so intensivly for one reason: there where not enough residences. And thats not at all something the colonists like, because it makes morale go down.
I'd rather like to see some new buildings for economy (otherwise we could just put a sf in a tube or a smelter, probably have a whole base of tubes and nothing else :ph34r:).
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Oh yeah Tubes. It should be possible to 'share' CCs and other resources with allied bases. For example if your CC dies the allie's CC can help keep your base running.
Clarifying My post:
Basically your people would move to your ally's CC to manage your colony using their CC, However, the CC won't run at 'full' capacity because it is being used by 2 colonies. Only the structures that are connected to the CC will be able to function, but they will probably function at a slower rate because the CC is shared.
Note: How about this, (for the higher LODs)
When a structure is disconnected from the CC and has people inside, youre options are:
1. Move an Evac transport to it, and move them to a different building.
2. Have the people come out has low poly 'humanoids', they would walk to the nearest structure that is connected to the CC.
The advantage of using an Evac is 1: It's faster than having your colonists walk
2. Your colonists can't be ran over etc... fried directly by an electrical storm, (the evac survives it better, so they will be more likely to survive.
If by some chance a colonist is injured, they will go to the nearest hospital (using the tubes if possible). This colonist will not be able to help until they are 'healed'.
We could come up with an ENTIRE new set of structures for the purpose of 'serving' the colony: IE Evac docking ports, similar to the airplane dock they use at airports maybe?
Ok, at TH300's post, New structures that are in the 'tube' system possibly? They would be 'sticking' out of the tube but still, :lol:
My ideas:
An ore storage place
'First aid' area
Airlock (alows people to get out of a building when it is destroyed without dying)
Edit: I like the hostage Idea, but in Multi it should have an option of being turned off. lol
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I think the idea of moving people around in such a fasion would add a complexity to the game that is truelly unprecedented in the RTS genre. So I would rather scratch that.
Also, stormy, not many people know what LOD's and Low Poly mean (Level of Detail for clarification). So I would avoid using those terms all together and leave in the design documents as that's where it belongs.
Also, LOD's wouldn't have that sort of an effect on the game. The LOD settings in the options panel determine how detailed the refresh engine draws everything. EG, a scene with 50000 triangles on the highest level would render instead around 25% less than that (approx 37500) making it easier for slower computers to render the same scene. Essentially LOD's determine the geometric complexity of any given scene. It also effects the quality of the textures rendered (which can actually have a huge effect. Processing a 1024x1024 image takes a LOT longer than a 128x128 image). Plus, the LOD's determine the shadow settings (complex, simple, none) as well as the way particles are rendered (debris from exploding structures, smoke, fire, etc.). For instance, the highest LOD would use 3D models for debris and would toss that around and would probably be able to handle around 1000 particles at once whereas the lowest setting wouldn't do anything more than 100 particles on-screen and would only use OpenGL/DirectX Dots/Points and would be rendered with only a single color (think of the particle system used in Quake2 for those of you who know it).
Also, while having geometric models of humans would be pretty sweet, the only feasible time to use them are on special missions (for instance, Axen Moon being sent to a penal colony in OP2's novella) or for in-game cutscenes such as mission openings.
Other things, however, such as giving the Evac's a true use are things that we should definatly look in to.
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If I ever get Maya, I'm hoping to possibly do the cutscenes in Maya itself. The visual effects are literally stunning! B)
What's complicated about having to move an evac to go 'rescue' people? If the player doesn't have an evac available, the colonists would get out and walk if the distance isn't more than X game units (We don't know what the units for telling the distance in the game will be yet, do we?).
Otherwise, they are stuck there.
(:lol: if we want, we can have a time limit for the amount of time they can be disconnected from an agridome, as they will starve to death.)
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I think it would be good to add in direct-ore-exchange between allied colonies. It would allow for a greater number of in-game stratedgies (for example, if its a 3 v 3 and two people on the team only have 1 and 2 bars nearby while the third has 2 or more 3 bars, the third player could focus on mining and build up their base in a defensive manner, sending ore to the other two who could both build up the main body of the offensive force.)
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yea something like a monorail for transport thru tubes would be good, and is what i was saying in the other thread.
as for colonists, and capturing, maybe if u remove all the tube from a building and the player dosent idle the building before this happens the colonists r traped inside and then they can be captured.
i would like to see capturing of buildings in the game for sure.
we probly dont need a new building, the trade center will do. but it could have docks or whatevea.
ok that makes sence, because they ran out of housing space they would use the tubes.
i think u should be able to share people and resourses and CC with a ally.
evac transports need to be able to dock at the CC, and maybe other buildings. well if people can walk on new terra (which they can) they can just get into a evac trans. and realy there should be a smaller transport for a few people, and it would be about as fast a a suvayor.
also thinking about people i would like to c a more detailed people system and even have a list of all ur colonsts names and where they work. so if u set a guy to come out of a building u can select him/her and it will have their details. also i dont think vec's would auto target people because they could be captured. but u can still attack them.
hmm evac docking ports, well all buildings will have doors and the vecs can prolly dock with it. there would be a standard door which all buildings use etc. (id love to c a video of a vec driving to a building, stoping and a docking extenshion going to the buildings door)
all residence and morale strucutes would have a first aid kit.
yea stormy all game options should be able to be turned on and off.
i think 3ds max is good for making vids, but im sure maya is also.
hmm as for an Economy, something has to be worked out.
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i think u should be able to share people and resourses and CC with a ally.
yea, that would be a nice new feature.
evac transports need to be able to dock at the CC, and maybe other buildings. well if people can walk on new terra (which they can) they can just get into a evac trans. and realy there should be a smaller transport for a few people, and it would be about as fast a a suvayor.
hmm evac docking ports, well all buildings will have doors and the vecs can prolly dock with it. there would be a standard door which all buildings use etc. (id love to c a video of a vec driving to a building, stoping and a docking extenshion going to the buildings door)
evac transports docking into buildings?? I wouldn't treat people like ore. I'd prefer a system in which you drive the evac next to a building and then colonists walk the short way to the building. Some kind of extension coming out of buildings is also a nice idea, but it shouldn't be too big.
also thinking about people i would like to c a more detailed people system and even have a list of all ur colonsts names and where they work. so if u set a guy to come out of a building u can select him/her and it will have their details. also i dont think vec's would auto target people because they could be captured. but u can still attack them.
a more detailed people-system would be interesting, sure. But it would also add much complexity to the game. I'm not sure if thats good for Outpost.
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thats the kinda thing what i meant by docking.
well it would just be nice to be able to see the info. it wouldnt add complexity realy.
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Unless it lets you get things you can't normally get (which I'm guessing it won't), I don't think this'll be good. Besides, they don't even HAVE money in OP2... do they? :unsure:
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That's what I"m saying about the 'docking' port for the evac. It comes out like one of those airport docks on the larger planes like the 737 :D
Oh, and I'm not using 3DSMax.... I will use Maya for cutscenes, and If I can't buy it, I'll have to figure out how to get good at using particles with Blender (maybe they will come up with a better method for fire and whatnot)
So, I've got some solutions.
Still it's hard to believe that I was your average 12 year old in June, (i turned 13 the 11th of June)... And I had no knowledge of Modeling. With a tutorial Leeor pointed out to me, that jumpstarted my 'career' which is my 'career' for the project. So, Here I am now, with many skills that I had to learn myself (thumbsup) :heh: After a lot of work and reading....
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Great job Stormy :D
We wanna see preview pics :P
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Ummmm about Your post above my previous one....
What does MONEY have to do with OP2? Why don't you think it would be good to have a docking port for the evac as I described above?
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Sirbomber: There is no clear currency in the game, however the do have 'credits' they use to purchase things (which is something that can be ascertained during research of the consumer goods factory)
Stormy: I envy your luck with tutorials *fumbles around with the Photoshop tutorials that people pointed him to before*
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What would having currency that we can manipulate and whatnot do for the colony... Increase food intake and stuff.... thereby increasing morale?
I'm learning Maya 7 with Maya tutorials :rolleyes:
Tutorials rock! In my oppionion, they are just as good as any college class you take, but at your own pace. (thumbsup)
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actually, in the novellas it used a ration system for currency. 'Rations Points' i think is wt they called them. They were traded like currency for goods and foods etc
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SO it's basically like the WW2 Ration stamps that were used.
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Why would you want to complicate the game with this uneeded burden. Sounds like a case of scope creep that's getting out of control to me.
Besides, there's something funny about using money when you're in that small of a colony and the last of the human race. Why should you really be trading anything for food? And even if you are, how does that add to the game?
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yeah, i would have to agree hooman. food and wt not is small matter to these ppls on the macro scale; which is how we play the game. im not exactly looking forward to 'The Sims 2: In Space" <_<
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I know, I don't like that Idea either, but think we should go with the 'colonist trading method' and evacs? Also, if a building is d/c ed from the main tube system, and you idle it with people inside, they go outside in space suits and walk to the nearest tube/building. I LOVE this idea... would make it fun... also.... People would get smashed by the occasional Cargo Truck gone mad xD :rolleyes:
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Tutorials rock! In my oppionion, they are just as good as any college class you take, but at your own pace.
Stormy, keep in mind that the tutorials that I have pointed you toward are good ones not to mention that various things that I have explained to you myself. I've seen a thousand and one tutorials and I'd say that most of the ones on the 'net are crap and end up leading you in a completely different direction than was originally intended.
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That said, as far as ration points are concerend, that's something that could be added in a MOD of sorts for the game. Micromanagement on the level of 'The Sims' as ZZJ stated takes away from what a Real Time Strategy game is.
The list of colonists names as Levi had pointed out would also be awesome for a MOD to the game (to change it into something else) but otherwise it would become very bulky very fast and can cause numerous problems for people on slower machines (e.g., if you have 6 players all with a human population of let's say 500 you'd have 3000 colonists to keep track of: Their health, their RP, their current state (dead/alive), weather they're a scientest, worker, child, teacher, etc., their lifespan, their current age, hunger levels, etc. and that's not to mention the names of all of them). a list of 3000 colonists with ALL of those stats takes a LONG time to calculate considering the real-time nature of Outpost 3. It's truelly not feasible at this time for most home computers, especially if the global population reaches 10000 or more. Plus, it's not as simple as just running through the list of the colonists. Each player has his own population with various conditions in the colony (food production, morale, etc.). All of these things would need to be considered while determining the new state of each colonist per tick/count/turn/whatever.
Long story-short: Unless a MOD for OP3 is turn-based like OP1 or Civilization, individual stats for a population doesn't work.
Continuing on, I think that the Economy mode for OP3's Colony Games would be pretty neat but I believe whole-heartedly that unless a mission specifically centers around a commercial theme (colony or campaign alike), the user should have FULL control over wether or not an Economy is even looked at in-game. I personally would LOVE to have an economic center for my colony if I'm playing a long Colony Game (picture it, SimCity 5000) while at the same time having to deal with Morale, Disasters and Enemies.
I think this covers all that I was thinking about...
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Tutorials rock! In my oppionion, they are just as good as any college class you take, but at your own pace.
Stormy, keep in mind that the tutorials that I have pointed you toward are good ones not to mention that various things that I have explained to you myself. I've seen a thousand and one tutorials and I'd say that most of the ones on the 'net are crap and end up leading you in a completely different direction than was originally intended.
Yea, the ones you showed me are really good, but I found an entire community of 3D Resources, along with a profesonally made tutorial (for maya, teaches the basics to 3D also :D, in terms that I would use :D), I found Blender tutorials, I even found a Blender wiki page. It's not just the tutorials you showed me, its ones that I searched for... Anyway... all these ideas are getting out of hand in my view, too many ideas in a topic and whatnot. They are GREAT ideas, but there is a higher chance that they will be excluded when it is time to put them into the game. We need a different system. (no need to discuss it here)
So, I still like the 'mad cargo truck' idea and having people run around the planet XD
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Whoa you say Turn based. This better be a 3D RTS.
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I Notice talk about colony in with people names but made instand of doing all people that only special people would track(kindly like hero in warcraft 3 :P)
Obvously one people track of player so you own name. You Could even have level up to get special abilitys.
Oh he skills for operied each building so if have in that building he gain skill for mangane that building.
Hehehe or that can also work special project only hero can do. Like Stormy statue :P. More thinking that like upgrade to building(but for work be in building try improve in). Sure yous could all possiblity but one mind should enough of them so last more anyone ever play in each each mission or campain of that fact.
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Omg I think heros is a bad Idea OP2 is a survival combat thing not a Fantasy world with magic and dancing fairies lol.
I know your going to bring up Starcraft but the single player was a story line thing I am strictly thinking of multiplayer.
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:o Lol! a Stormy statue!!!! That would be funny! :lol:
stormy :op2:
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I like heros in RTS games. Anyone play Dawn of War.
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I have not. But it does add more randomed element in games add more fun.
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The idea of heroes is a possibility and is something worth considering (for instance, a tiger thor's hammer being driven by a veteran combat technician would give it stronger armor, better aim and thus more deadly).
The game is definatly an RTS. I think you should read things a little bit more carefully, Freeza (you seem to make a lot of mistakes with the various posts I make. I wonder if it's me then?). Anyway, so yeah, it's definitly RTS.
Ooh... something I just thought of. Despite the fact that all of the units in OP2 are controlled through a Robot CC (well, technically they are supposed to be but chances are they're controlled through the CC), they have the ability to control them directly by being inside the unit. This would make the unit react faster and would make it more accurate (with appropriate training). So I wonder if it would be cool to produce units that are manned with the cost of first training available workers as combat pilots (not that they are flying but I think the message gets across) and then inserting them into a particular unit. That would make the unit more accurate and would probably increase its defense and whatnot... maybe even a little bit in terms of smart movement. Anyway, point being that if a unit is destroyed, chances are that the person inside is also destroyed. But I think it's also a possibility that people inside the wreckage of a vehicle could be rescued or picked up via an Evac Transport (or maybe a new vehicle, a Special Ops Personelle Rescue Vehicle (SOPRV for short))... that could make for some interesting combat tactics (as well we people management)!
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I don't like the idea of manned combat vecs. Its - again - a waste of human resources. Sending humans into combats isn't the best way to help the human race survive. It doesn't take long for any combat vec to get destroyed, also if they have some bonus because they're manned.
A better idea might be a better computer on board of combat vecs, that has to be researched and probably is slightly more expensive and takes more time to produce than the default computer.
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the only way is see a vet giving a Thors Hammer more armore is if he welded his medals on the hull lol. For single player I can see a hero or VIP or main character in a vec. But multiplayer is no place for a hero. That would make it seem like it is a rip off of War Craft 3 and that isnt kousher lol. A independant computer system in each vec could be a research topic that would allow the RCC or CC (whichever) to control more units.
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multiplayer is no place for a hero
Agreed. ANything considered a 'hero' would not be allowed in multiplayer games unless the players were involved in a Co-op game (Hmmm... Co-Op... sounds good!)
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Well a Multiplayer game should be alot like op2 where you can alli betray and do what ever. Perhaps a Co-op base type deal 2 people can control one base or have a shared Hybrid CC and a Stucture fac for each player so one could be eden and the other plymouth. Here is the catch to they have to work together in using resources like Power, Ore, Workers, and Scientists.
A Single player Co-op of the net would be interesting
perhaps even play both sides eden and plymouth at the same time.
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if you want to try to get a feel how those thing work i think on starcraft there was such a mod called team-melee maybe it can get you an idea on how to do it or how can it be implanted to op3
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it was a map called shared bases. but it wouldnt work quite the same as starcraft.
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Yea ur allways find special or hero units in singleplayer scn's.
There is no need to put a human in a vech to drive it or for transport. But they could be put in them if they need to be picked up and taken back to base or whatevea.
They wouldnt need to be in it to control it because they can just sit at a unit control terminal and control lots or 1 unit at a time. If the unit(s) die the human dosent.
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I just dont see heros in units no matter how much armore it has or how fast it can fire its going to get owned in a swamp of lynx.
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When I say a co-op game I mean two players connect over the 'net to play a campaign that requires at least two players to complete successfuly.
I find that many games fail to look at this option and it's one thing that is seriously lacking within the gaming world and something I've always wanted to include in my games.
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Well that is true leeor but this is a multi RTS that has a alli capablity. I think the Co-op should be more of a map thing that would have a Auto alli thing that cant be broken. Co-op for single player is always enjoyed tho. But maybe both sides could be played at once as well.
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the objectives would have to be pretty hard (imagine 2 lev's fighting against the computer)
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Well single player wouldnt be the same becuase in the multi games levi plays alot of the research is done already. it would take a little longer to do all the research to get stuff even if levi is fast it still takes time.
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Argh... Freeza, you're missing the point. There are THREE modes of play in the game: Single Player Campaign, Co-Op Campaign and Multiplayer.
When I say Co-op, I'm talking about a mission mode that requires at least two players to complete.
In Multiplayer games (e.g. Deathmatch, Space Race, Land Rush, etc.), any of the players can do whatever they like. They can ally themselves, they can stab eachother in the back, whatever people do in games like that. It's a given.
But the Co-op mode is a campaign mode in which you need at least two players to get through the missions. A single player just wouldn't be able to do it. There would probably be one or two Co-Op campaigns and not much more.
Then there's the single player mode which currently has 4 campaings for the player to complete. (well, it will when they're done)
Of course, I don't know if I want to do the co-op mode. I need to talk to the other guys before that's decided upon.
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I see it is as I thought but I also thought it was in multi but it isnt lol.
Co-op mode sounds good but I hope it will work over the internet and not just lan only.
CO-OP NEEDS TO BE IN MORE GAMES.
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I love the co-op idea. I also agree with freeza: It needs to work over the web not only over a LAN, and maybe if you have multiple game controls, you can do it split screen on one computer! (that would really be taxing on your resources though :heh: )
stormy :op2:
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maaaan try to split a 17 inches screen its small like hell!