Op3:np Still In Production?

[leeor_net]

I've been following the production and development of each individual project and there are a few that are still shown as active projects but haven't recieved any updates.

What's happening with this project? Is the website going to have any updates? Are there any screenshots of the game itself? Or has this project turned into another game that will never be finished?

[Sl0vi]

Maybe the fact that this project is located under "Inactive projects" will give you a hint.  :rolleyes:

To be quite honest, the only game I actually believe is even getting worked on is your OP:MIA

Anyway, following what development... I've been here for like 6 months or something already... and I haven't seen any development and progress on any of these games.

[leeor_net]

Oops...  :heh: My mistake...

But the same applies to the projects that aren't considered inactive... I have a hard time believing that I'm the only one still working on a project that I started...

<sigh>

[Leviathan]

I think the answer is no to the oringal question.

[leeor_net]

I truely believe that if someone is going to start on a project, they need to finish it or at least release what they have to the public so that someone else can finish it. If it's worth starting, it's worth finishing. If you don't have the resources to complete the game yourself, look for help.

I am a great resource myself (despite the fact that I can't help myself sometimes!  :whistle: )

If you need 2D art (backgrounds, tiles, interface, 3D Model Skining, etc.), you have an experienced graphic artist here (used to do the in-store displays for CompUSA in Paramus, NJ).

If you need help developing a commercial quality website, (or just want suggestions), I can also help with that.

I can even steer you in the right direction when it comes down to programming (in terms of c/c++/OpenGL/DirectX/SDL).

Of course, I'm not the only person available. That's what communities are about. That's what projects and group efforts are all about. If I could design and do everything for OP:MIA on my own, why would I post polls or topics asking what people think?

Of course, projects may end up discontinued due to a lack of time or inspiration. I can certainly understand this (I've abandoned plenty of projects myself and thus I am no angel myself). But when it comes to down to starting a project and announcing it to a community, unless you have good reason (like OP3:AW's creator), you shouldn't abandon it.

And as a side note, if there are projects that are not just inactive but completely abandoned, they should be removed (or put into an "Archive" section of the forum). This way clutter can be removed but all information/postings can still remain and that way people can still see the projects/ideas (I know that I like the idea of OP3:AW amd would like to see it have its 15 minuts in the light).

Anyway... am I being too much of a hard ass? I begin to wonder sometimes if I'm maybe too opinionated...   :unsure:  

[TH300]

I agree, especially in the point that projects which have already been announced to the public should be finished. If you know in the beginning that you'll likely not finish it, don't start it, because its a waste of time then. Or at least get other people to continue your work.

[Leviathan]

Waste of time and space.

If its not a real project, it should have a forum section realy.

[leeor_net]

Lev, I think it would be a really good idea if you took all of the 'inactive' projects and stuck them in an "Archive" forum or something like that. This way all of the related information remains intact and available but it removes the clutter. You would also be able to move any "Other" projects out into the main forum body (Like OPUTool). I didn't see any projects listed in "Inactive and Other" that are actually Other projects.

[TH300]

Lev, I think it would be a really good idea if you took all of the 'inactive' projects and stuck them in an "Archive" forum or something like that.

Isn't the "Inactive projects" forum enough of an archive?

[leeor_net]

Well, the title is "Inactive and Other Projects". OPUTool isn't inactive. In fact, I'm using it right now to post messages (actually, I find it quite a bit easier to use than browsing to OPU (even with a link or bookmark). Plus there's the... well, this isn't the thread to be doing that. But I think my point still stands.

[Leviathan]

We could split it up into:
Inactive
Other
?

[leeor_net]

That would certainly work. But if you had an "Other" section, what projects other than OPUTool would be in it?

Mind you, I'm not trying to shine the spot light on myself. I'm thinking ease of navigation as well as a clear status of projects. OPUTool would certainly be at home in an "Other Projects" section as it is not a major poduction (still useful, however!   )

Anyway, thanks for listening to me. I know I can be a pain sometimes.

Oh! Something you might want to consider (I just had a thought), is to create a BOT section in the "Other Projects" (provided you split the forums) and have open-source BOTS for OP2! Heh... It's just a thought and I'm sure will be a lot of work but creating OP2 BOTS for multiplayer (and then setting them on IRC in an #Outpost2.Bots channel) might be an interesting thing to do.

Damnit! I think too much!

[Leviathan]

lol lol, we allways love your input Leeor!

Sure dont think we need a bots channel, if u need to test a bot or what evea, you have the lobby.

All inactive projects would go in an inactive section, and the others, in a other section..?

[leeor_net]

Well, what I meant by bots are bots that actually compete IN the OP2 game. Like Bots that are used in the Quake games.

[Leviathan]

Yeah, any AI coding talk would happen in the coding room!

[Hooman]

You're right about that being a lot of work. I'd given a bot like that some thought, but unless it's somehow built into the game, it'll be near impossible to do. The only thing sent accross the network are commands from the players. If you wanted to write a standalone bot, you'd have rewrite the whole game engine. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any way of keeping track of what units exist, or where they are, how much damage they've taken, etc.

Anyways, that leaves you with either an AI built into a level, or an AI that somehow hijacks a whole copy of OP2 and somehow interfaces through that. Probably not an easy task. Although, if you're really interested, I guess we could have a discussion in the coding forum. You'll probably need to check out that project on CommandPackets first. That's pretty much how you'd be communicating with the other clients. Although, you'd need to insert them into the game differently. The method used in the sample project only works locally. (Which is fine for multiplayer if it executes locally on all the clients, say for a built in level AI, but not for a bot like thing).

 

[leeor_net]

Well, it was just a thought...

As I said, I think I think too much...

[Tellaris]

Yea, I'd given this topic some thought, and the only way I could think of was to rewrite the game, make maps with bots (local, like Hoo said), or completely hijack the game entirely...   Something that would require extensive knowledge of OP2 and how it works...   Easiest way is MP maps with bots on them.   (Like La Cor, but actually doing something...)

[BlackBox]

Yeah, rewriting the game engine would be a lot of work.

I'd think that a standalone bot might be possible though.

How I see it is, it's a program that joins an OP2 game. Once the game starts it's able to understand the network packets coming from the game, and send its own (not needing a copy of OP2 available at all).

However it'd be a lot of work (we still don't know how/where a lot of command packets are produced that represent events, like a weapon firing or whatever). Even more work to get a bot that could actually build up and attack people.

But, it's an interesting idea.

[Hooman]

There are no CommandPackets for units firing. That isn't a player command. There are CommandPackets for when I player tells units to attack a target, but that's it. You'd have to keep track of when the weapon last fired, and when it is able to fire again. Which also includes accounting for upgrades yourself. And to keep track of upgrades, you have to know how everything is researched. So that would mean reading and validating the CommandPacket that assigned scientists to research at a given lab, and keep track of the ongoing research.

I hope you see where this is going? Never mind the time it would take to code all this. You'd still need to figure out EXACTLY how the game engine does all it's internal calculations. Did you know there is a lookup table used internally to figure out how efficient your scientists are? It depends on how many you have working. And all the unit characteristics need to be accounted for. Each unit gets processing time to do whatever it needs. (Fire rates, Turret turn rates, movement rates, EMP disabled counters, Sticky ... stuck? counter, building buildings/units, pathfinding, anything special that's specific to one unit.) You'd have to look at the code to figure out what each unit does during this time. Which also means you'd probably need to figure out all the unit vtbl entries.

Anyways, if you were to make a standalone program like you want to, I would expect it to takes years to implement enough to stay in sync with a copy of OP2. And I don't mean one or two years either. Probably much longer. You essentially have to make an EXACT clone of the game engine. You might as well make an exact clone of the game since you'd be like 90% done at that point.

 

[xamlit]

I hate to sound fustrated but wth doesn't any of the OP2 producers realize how much we love the game and help us out! There has to be someone!

[leeor_net]

Dynamics broke up and with it, OUTPOST. Sierra doesn't give a crap either due to VU being its parent now.

Well, it was just a thought anyway.