Racial Differences

[knux]

I am considering the advantages each side will have over each other.
I originally only had the differences in structures and weaponry.
But now I would like to have actual differences that could influence the game.
Makes for more interesting and strategic play. (especially multiplayer)

Your thoughts?

[Zircon]

Eden: Research Boost - Technological

Plymouth: Morale Boost - Infrastructure

They could wary in other things like production also.
Eden might have less units but more powerful ones to counter an improved production rate for Plymouth.

This leads to two distinct strategies.

[Hooman]

When playing OP2 I thought it might be interesting if the different races collected different resources. Which I guess already happens since Eden can build geothermal power plants and Plymouth can't. Mind you, I wouldn't want to see competition for resources disappear so I guess there should be some comonality. Although, I see no reason why the different races can't use some of the same resource for different purposes. Magma well guard posts anyone? (ok, so maybe I'm reaching a bit here).

[Jgamer]

A good difference would be how morale affects each colony
Like this:
EDEN:
-Morale has only half the nor effect
-Morale raises mainly with research and survival and war structures

PLYMOUTH:
-Morale has 1.5x the effect
-Morake raises mainly with morale and eviromental structures and research.

This is because of the main reason of the separating of the colonys, their people different behavior

[TH300]

Different research costs / required Scientists (for buildings and research) / required workers and power for buildings
 

[ZeusBD]

I think that Zircon is on to something there.

But you could also have different combination's of buildings give added bonuses. Such as a formula, like 2 of one building and 3 of another gives you a different bonus than 4 of a different kinda building plus 2 of another. If you get what I mean...

[knux]

What I was thinking of was along the lines of:

Eden - Hightened Intelligence:
           Research increased by 5%, scientist training 25% faster.

Plymouth - Industrious Workers:
                  Production higher by 10%, morale bonus of 15%.


Not so sure about different resources, that means I would have to come up with new ones and that would be a little too different.

I agree with Jgamer. The colonys have different ideologies. They use the same methods, but say the eden people just love technology and the plymouth people just love the challenge of a new environment.

[Jgamer]

Finally someone has agged with me at least once in my life!!!  :'(
Anyway, having 2 different resources it's a little bit surreal, i mean, both usa and africa use the same metals like iron and steel, the only difference is the use they make of each one.
PS: sorry about the crappy example and wording

[Ezekel]

...damn hit the back button accidently...

*rewrites post*

i feel that you should include an "classic mode" option (for multi/skirmish games)
it wouldn't be too hard to implement when you finish the game...

it would entail that the differences that aren't structural, vehicular or research aren't used in the game when activated.

so you would still have the VTOL and plymouth's university looking different to eden's one, but you won't have things like faster research time, or cheaper prices or higher base speeds that are unique to each side.


does this mean you are scrapping the lithari (spelling?) colony then?



while on this topic, an i dea i've had is what about making the system a bit like it is in C&C generals, where you play teh default colony in missions, but for skirmish/multi you have a choice between the default colony, or a faction/general of the colony (i dunno if you factions would work for eden and plymouth... but for the alien lithari colony, there might be different...um motherships or something... with each employing different tactics). perhaps for eden and plymouth you can call it a "battle stratagem".

PS: if your unsure what i mean in the last paragraph think of this:
lithari pirate raiders have slightly cheaper combat vehicules, but cannot build any heavy chassis (as their key to success is all about speed and surprise)
whereas the lithari grand fleet would deploy cheaper (and maybe slightly modified) aircraft at the expense of fewer research options available for their ground based units.
of course this will mean that even a default army might not have access to every unit/research/structure of that colony/race, but that is the point in choosing a faction, you trade off one strength/area in order to better another area.

[ZeusBD]

What I was thinking of was along the lines of:

Eden - Hightened Intelligence:
           Research increased by 5%, scientist training 25% faster.

Plymouth - Industrious Workers:
                  Production higher by 10%, morale bonus of 15%.


Not so sure about different resources, that means I would have to come up with new ones and that would be a little too different.

I agree with Jgamer. The colonys have different ideologies. They use the same methods, but say the eden people just love technology and the plymouth people just love the challenge of a new environment.

Knux, that's too much of a bonus for Plymouth over Eden. I think that they need to be leveled out some more.

[TH300]

Think so, too. The 25% isn't worth alot, bcz most time of a game u don't train scientists.

[knux]

...damn hit the back button accidently...

*rewrites post*

i feel that you should include an "classic mode" option (for multi/skirmish games)
it wouldn't be too hard to implement when you finish the game...

it would entail that the differences that aren't structural, vehicular or research aren't used in the game when activated.

so you would still have the VTOL and plymouth's university looking different to eden's one, but you won't have things like faster research time, or cheaper prices or higher base speeds that are unique to each side.


does this mean you are scrapping the lithari (spelling?) colony then?



while on this topic, an i dea i've had is what about making the system a bit like it is in C&C generals, where you play teh default colony in missions, but for skirmish/multi you have a choice between the default colony, or a faction/general of the colony (i dunno if you factions would work for eden and plymouth... but for the alien lithari colony, there might be different...um motherships or something... with each employing different tactics). perhaps for eden and plymouth you can call it a "battle stratagem".

PS: if your unsure what i mean in the last paragraph think of this:
lithari pirate raiders have slightly cheaper combat vehicules, but cannot build any heavy chassis (as their key to success is all about speed and surprise)
whereas the lithari grand fleet would deploy cheaper (and maybe slightly modified) aircraft at the expense of fewer research options available for their ground based units.
of course this will mean that even a default army might not have access to every unit/research/structure of that colony/race, but that is the point in choosing a faction, you trade off one strength/area in order to better another area.

Well actually your classic mode would be much harder to implement after the game as it is a core effect.

You see, when I set the parameters of the population engine, I have conditions and events. Eg if...then....etc.
Once I have set this up, to then go back and then change everything based on a different condition. You see, each frame may have upto 500 events or more. MMF can handle 10000 in a frame at once. Since I am not programming in straight code (c++, etc) MMF uses events.
When you click on a unit, just to highlight it there are at least 15 events. The ones relating to action when the mouse clicks on something, the cursor change, the unit being the current selection and the selection square appearing.

So the hard coding takes a very long time to implement. Now add about 20 structures, each with their own set of rules and then another 30 vehicles. This isn't including enemy units and other stuff in the background you don't see (morale, food, metal and research) and you have a hell of a lot of work to do.
The more events the computer has to process, the slower the game runs. So I not only have to set enough events and conditions to avoid errors. I have to keep the code efficient enough so the game doesn't run like a drunk slug.

That's why I've been trying to simplify some aspects of the game, to make the game flow better than op2, (I've been playing again recently to see what could be improved). I have found that some things just annoy me and others could be made better. This is also as there are some things I cannot program.

Pause for coffee break....


 

[knux]

Right, break's over....

Sorry about the confusion about the colony bonuses, but those were just examples, they're not the actual values I'm going to use. I just wanted to demonstrate what I'm after.

I feel that since plymouth and eden are so different, they should have distinct advantages and disadvantages over each other.
What did let op2 down was the stories were pretty much the same, the only difference between each colony was the structures and weapons. This I feel didn't reflect their true identities.
In most games there is difference in each side. So, that changes the way you have to play each one. Makes for a much better 'real time STRATEGY'.

Also I'm not scrapping the Lithari side at all, they are crucial to the game. You first discover them in mission 5. That's going to be a harder mission as you have to race the clock.

[ZeusBD]

Well, with fair values, I think that bonuses for each type of race would be a very good inclusion.

[Ezekel]

heh heh drunk slug


sorreh about my misconceptions knux, i thought that if you were to choose one mode over another, then only the chosen modes parameters would be processed

kinda like in VB where you have 2 timers with code and you have 2 command buttons:

command1:
timer1.enabled=true
timer2.enabled=false
end sub

command2:
timer1.enabled=false
timer2.enabled=true
end sub




anywho,  i may have mentioned this before, but to help with the "same story per side" issue. you could do somethign a little less conventional with the story line of the game...
rather then two seperate paralell universes happening depending on the colony you choose, why not have plymouth= 5 missions + story followed by eden= 5missions + continuation of the same story ... if you see what i mean... i but like how its done in warcraft 3 and in C&C generals

[ZeusBD]

Like a Starcraft type of thing?

[Norsehound]

...Emma at one point in the novella points out how 'peaceful' the Plymouth people were. They weren't as used to warfare as Eden was.

To reflect this you could give Eden the advantage in pure combat power (Higher attack ratings) And have them better on military reasearch.

Plymouth on the other hand could expand on a more diverse feild of weapons types but not necissarily of a higher attack power. A good example of this is the Stickyfoam weapon which Eden has no counter. Besides, Plymouth had spiders.
 

[knux]

heh heh drunk slug


sorreh about my misconceptions knux, i thought that if you were to choose one mode over another, then only the chosen modes parameters would be processed

kinda like in VB where you have 2 timers with code and you have 2 command buttons:

command1:
timer1.enabled=true
timer2.enabled=false
end sub

command2:
timer1.enabled=false
timer2.enabled=true
end sub




anywho,  i may have mentioned this before, but to help with the "same story per side" issue. you could do somethign a little less conventional with the story line of the game...
rather then two seperate paralell universes happening depending on the colony you choose, why not have plymouth= 5 missions + story followed by eden= 5missions + continuation of the same story ... if you see what i mean... i but like how its done in warcraft 3 and in C&C generals

Well I'll tell you how the game goes.
You start as plymouth, who have escaped new terra and you are setting up your colony and with plymouth's new mentallity you are exploring your new planet and then the story kicks in.
You overcome the obstacles, military, science and production wise.
The game ends with plymouth and eden arrives and picks up where plymouth left off. They explore on their own with their own objectives and you finish the game as eden.

Unlike op2 where both colonies were fighting for the same thing, op3 each side will have different missions and objectives.
I'm still working on the basics so the details aren't finalised yet.

[Ezekel]

sooooooo... is there not gonna be any wreckage-race style maps? (maybe instead of wreckage you are scouting out artifacts from an ancient civilisation or maybe really rare light-focusing crystals... or something like that) or any missions involving a plymouth vs eden?

... also, as there are now 3 sides, well, you say the colonies won't have the same objectives... well can't you have like... maybe you as eden + a plymouth computer which sends on small squads every so often and attacks the lithari. in other words, eden and plymouth working together to defeat a hostile enemy base or something

[knux]

sooooooo... is there not gonna be any wreckage-race style maps? (maybe instead of wreckage you are scouting out artifacts from an ancient civilisation or maybe really rare light-focusing crystals... or something like that) or any missions involving a plymouth vs eden?

... also, as there are now 3 sides, well, you say the colonies won't have the same objectives... well can't you have like... maybe you as eden + a plymouth computer which sends on small squads every so often and attacks the lithari. in other words, eden and plymouth working together to defeat a hostile enemy base or something

There might be a wreckage style maps. I can say there will be new and exciting artifacts to find and research. Those are essential to your game.
Further more, there will be base assault missions and handovers of power.  

[Ezekel]

*nods* cool


i just am thinking about the Masters' armed and armoured cargo trucks and scouts.

i think if the map/mission editor that you create is simple enough, i may make a masters vs axen's 3 thors tigers (objective being to distroy their CC)