Mines and Mining Robots

[leeor_net]

Been thinking about this one for a bit and after some of the design work that I've been doing with mines and using a GUI interface to dig further depths (http://redmine.outpostuniverse.org/issues/103), it's occurring to me that having a miner bot dig a mine shaft and then become available to dig more seems unbalanced. Would basically mean that the one miner bot you get from the start is all you need ever in the entire game.

I'm thinking of changing this so that when the miner bot finishes it gets destroyed similarly to the robominer's in Outpost 2. Basically, the bot becomes the mine facility. This would mean that you can't just infinitely expand your mining facilities and would require you to spend resources to build new miner bots that you could then invest in new mine facilities leaving the mine facilities to be your window into expanding mines.

Thoughts?

[lordpalandus]

If the miner bot was designed for a one-use digging mission, then maybe. As an example, in the not so well received 2nd and 3rd Matrix movies, the AI Robots use a one-use drilling robot to drill a hole from the surface to the city. However for that bot, it made sense that it was one use as it fell quite a distance from the ceiling to the floor.

So how would work in my mind is that the miner bot would be both extremely heavy, and would get progressively "heavier" as it dug deeper (kind of like in Motherload actually) and thus it would be prohibitively expense to try and extract the miner bot once it got that far down. At that point, it would be cheaper to build and deploy a new bot, than to extract the existing bot.

Once it reaches the bottom, it could be say disassembled for spare parts and resources and be recycled.

[leeor_net]

Well the assumption here is that the miner bot actually becomes the mine facility. Which has me wondering if I should do the same with digger bots. Basically they become the airshaft when finished and then you use the airshaft to dig deeper. I dunno, that's a different discussion.

[dave_erald]

It partially dissassembles than maybe? I guess you dont have to explain it fully in game but the digger portion becomes the mining apparatus and the hull/drive assembly becomes the mining base/power transfer to the mining unit itself. Again, details not required but how it could in theory work (one of many ways)

Would there be two different units for mining two different materials? And would there be the possibility of building a warehouse directly on top of the mine shaft? More ideas....

...but yes, it should be a one time use item you are correct

[leeor_net]

Well, in the original game you would have marked mines on the map represented as flashing red beacons. To dig a mine, you would place a robominer on the marked location. After several turns the robominer would complete its task and you would have a mine shaft and a mine facility on the surface. I'm not sure how Outpost 1 did it but you would get all of your resources via the mines so it wasn't separate mine types like in Outpost 2.

In order to extend the life of the mine by 100 turns you would place a robominer on the lowest shaft of the mine. This would take several turns but after completion the shaft would be extended by an additional level up to 4 levels deep (this was dependent on the planet).

On the other hand, in Outpost 2, you would build a robominer and it would plop itself down on a mining beacon and become the mine facility.

I'm thinking to do the same with with OutpostHD where you lose availability of the mining robot as it effectively becomes the mine facility much like in Outpost 2. To extend a mine shaft the player would click on the Mine Facility in question and hit a button labled something like "Extend Mine Shaft" or equivilent.

[lordpalandus]

So you dig a mine with a robodozer, and then the robominer would build the mineshaft and have a mine facility on the surface. Am I understanding that correctly, or is it only the Robominer?

Simplest solution is the Outpost 2 solution. You build the robominer on the surface, which creates the mining facility, and then you can order it to drill deeper and thus extend the mine shaft downwards.

[leeor_net]

Did I mention the dozer? If I did I apologize, I meant no confusion.

You start with the miner and place the miner on a mining beacon same as you do in Outpost 2 and Outpost 1. The difference is that in Outpost 1 the miner digs the shaft and caps the shaft with a mining facility and then you get the miner back.

During my testing with OutpostHD, it occurred to me that I would never need to build new miner bots. Hell, even in Outpost 1 I never remember having to build new miners, just diggers and dozers.

[lordpalandus]

Well, to be honest, you could have it where you don't need to build additional dozers or miners, like in Outpost 2.

If in Outpost 1 they would dig the shaft, cap it, and then build a mine on it and you get the miner back, how about instead, you have the miner dig shafts and then cap those shafts BUT not build a mining facility on that capped shaft. Thus you'd build a structure on the capped shaft like any other structure and expand the shaft by clicking on the mine and digging deeper. That way, you would only say need one robominer, but the robominer wouldn't build a free structure after digging the hole; the player would have to manually build a mine on the capped hole once the hole has been made.

Honestly, in Outpost 2, I never understood why you'd need to build multiple robominers. Why couldn't a robominer that deployed itself, re-pack itself and move to a new location? Or the fact that mines don't require power yet you'd think they'd need power to operate. But I'm now just nitpicking and diverting the topic

[Goof]

I don't know if it will help but, when a subway is dug, they recover the machines in the end
I know his is surface digging machines but they recovered them.

For "The Channel Tunnel" between France and England, they used two digging machine per tunnels.
Some of them were buried deeper and abandoned,some others were unbuild, one of them was recovered and is exposed on a roundabout.
Since they were made to measure for this tunnel, they were not made to be reused elsewhere.


I still do believe that a digging machine could not be reused (as it cost money to build they could want to reuse them).
Maybe it could get damaged (needs repairs), or lost if a critical malfunction append (simply considered as destroyed).
If destroyed, it could take some turns to extract the old one before using a new Miner robot on the mine.

for example

Number of mines	Complet rate	Failure rate
1 mine	100%	33 %
2 mine	80%	44 %
3 mine	60%	55 %
4 mine	40%	66 %
5 mine	20%	77 %
6 mine	10%	100 %

after the first repair it could restart with a Higher failure rate

Number of mines	Complet rate	Failure rate
1 mine	90%	34%
2 mine	65%	56 %
3 mine	40%	78 %
4 mine	15%	100 %

And so on

Number of mines	Complet rate	Failure rate
1 mine	85%	40%
2 mine	55%	70 %
3 mine	25%	100 %

And  a critical failure rate that increase at each mine and never reset on repair or maybe a bonus of 20% for 1 turn only (it just got repaired)

Number of mines	Critical failure rate
1 mine	0%
2 mine	5%
3 mine	10%
4 mine	15%
5 mine	20%
...	...
11 mine	50%
...	...
16 mine	75%
...	...
20 mine and more	95%

So the player could have some mines before a failure or a complete destruction of a miner.

Maybe the failure rate could grow much faster as it dig a deeper layer of the planet.
5% on surface layer, 6% on first underground layer, 7% next and so on.
It would make it harder to dig deeper.

[leeor_net]

Hmmm... I like this idea better than mine. Could have the mine facility still require a robot when digging a new shaft but definitely as they age the chance of breakdown gets higher and higher.

Clean, simple, adds the need to build new miners.

[Hooman]

My mind has been mined of my own mine ideas, but mind you, the mine ideas mined here are not mine.

[leeor_net]

Hooman, you're awesome. Please always be you and never change!