Windows Whoas

[Ice Blade2097]

*SEE SUMMARY OF ISSUE AT BOTTOM*


Been a while since I have been around and the reason is as follows...

I have been updating my system of late (finally).  However, ran into a snag I couldn't find my OS disc.  But luckly after some searching in the house I was able to find a copy of Windows XP Pro SP1 Corporate Edition in a cd case covered with some dust.  Now after some time getting stuff ready to install I started the windows install process.  Everything went just hunky dory or so I thought....

After Windows had installed and I ran all the windows updates.  Now this is where the fun begins.  After a week after installing it I figued hey why not try doing a defrag and antivirus scan on the drive.  Scan disk ran fine..... and then when trying to run the defrag/ anti virus.  The computer continually locked up.  So after many frustrated hours later I was able to locate the file it kept hanging up on (turned out to be my steam games of all things.)  I uninstalled the steam games and everything was fine I thought.

Which brings us up to date.. now not only has the locking up on defraging and antivirus scan started back up again (no the steam games are not installed again).  The computer has now decided to lock itself up if I leave it idle for a length of time.  So any suggestions on how to remedy this is much appreciated.

SUMMARY:

ISSUE: Windows locks up for unknown reasons during antivirus scan/defraging.
OS disc: Windows XP Professional SP 1 Corporate Edition
Current OS: Windows XP Professional SP3 Corporate Edition (Updated to SP 3 via windows update)
Hard Drive: Western Digital SATA II 500 GB
Antivirus Program used: Avast Home Edition
Defrager used: Built in Defrag tool within windows


 

[Hooman]

I have an old laptop that locks up whenever it tries to go into suspend mode. I never did figure out why. It used to be fine. Perhaps it's an updated driver issue, or a failed piece of hardware.


Btw, if the installation is new, why are you using defrag? Fragmentation only normally becomes a problem after lots of interleaved writes of new data, and deletes of old data. Particularly of different file sizes.


Do you move the mouse at all while scanning/defraging? Maybe it's trying to enter suspend mode, like when you just leave it sitting doing nothing? Perhaps try adjusting power saving features.
 

[Freeza-CII]

things like that the hard drive is almost first and formost the leading suspect.  It could be any thing from failing hdd to bad clusters.

[Mez]

Most likely a driver issue, hopefully you didn't download and install any drivers that Windows update recommended to you!

I would recommend installing the latest drivers for all your components from the manufacturers website.

 

[Ice Blade2097]

Thanks for the input. Below is my thoughts on what was suggested below and what I have tried since then not ment bash any ideas.  Keep the suggestions flowing more ideas the better!  Gives me more to work with to find the root of the problem.

1) Not suspend mode that was disabled in the control panel.

2) As for why defraging after installing I noticed that if I did on "analys" part of it it showed clusters of fragrmented files after an install. *Shrugs* figured it couldn't hurt.

3) I did install a driver for my computer from windows update but it was for my kingston usb optical mouse <_< didn't think anything vital there.

4) Don't think its drivers, computer was orginaly my brothers, when I formated all the drivers are the exact same I think, he used with the exclusion of the video driver (got the updated one).  Only thing that has changed from when he had it and now me, is the OS disc used and the video driver, cd/rw /dvdrw drives in it, and the sata hard drive (he originaly had an IDE maxtor 80 gig in it.)

5)  Ran the western digital tools that is suposed to tell you if the drive is bad.  All it says is that it "passed" both the "through" and "smart" tests.  Didn't give any more detailed read out.  So I guess the hard drive is fine.  The sata drive in question used to run on my old rig as a slave with no paritions and ran fine however it was running under that OS disc that I couldn't find this go around (Windows XP pro sp2 then updated to SP3 on that set up.)

6) I did some research to see if perhaps its an OS problem.  Apparently SP1 had issues with large hard drives.  (Drives over 137gb).  I would think that perhaps this would have been fixed when I updated to sp3 as it was fixed in SP2 through windows update.  However, Windows might be being windows.  If it is I might be looking for a new os disc or learning how to slip stream Sp2 into the disc or somthing.

*For clarification for above incase I said somthing confusing.  The OS disc used to set up the current rig that is having the issues is (Windows XP Pro Corporate Edition SP1).  The OS disc used on the old rig in which no issues from the Hard drive was (Windows Xp Pro SP2).  Both installs were updated to SP3 through windows update.

[Kalshion]

Sometimes, even if you have the same driver set up as another computer (which is almost entirely impossible now-a-days) there can still be conflicts from another part of the computer. Usually these can be fixed by just reinstalling the problomatic driver, but not always the case.

You can always try reinstalling the OS; but only in the most dire of reasons.  

[Hidiot]

Formatting and re-installing the OS should never be something to be afraid of. It is ideal that a PC get a format and OS re-install once a year at least.

I never trusted windows's defragmenter, especially after it got me to a format once, years ago.

I can only run on my intuition saying it's the SP3 thing.

Now, I've had files that would shut my antivirus scan down when I used to share the PC with a very destructive person. But those files held or were viruses. And I don't recall Windows locking up, so I incline towards ruling a virus out.


Hmm, by the way, other idle time activated things are screen savers. Do you, by any chance, have one? There's also monitor sleep that can be set from power settings, but I doubt it's that.

Keep a sharp eye on the files the antivirus scan locks up. Try to scan them individually and if that fails, delete them. Unless, of course, they are system files or important files of any kind. If they're important to a user, copy them and scan them on a separate PC.

This about sums up what I would try if I were in your situation.

[CK9]

Formatting and re-installing the OS should never be something to be afraid of.

That's the route I'd go.  After I got my new sata drive set up, I got a virus (still scratching my head over it, didn't even do anything to get one).  I tried to run my anti-virus and anti-spyware, both failed to even start (really bad one that locks you out of your security settings).  In other words, you could have a virus that is causing the problems, and you'll need to start over, heh

[Mez]

1) If you are going to start over I would recommend the use of nLite to create a slipstreamed Sp3 install disk. http://www.nliteos.com/

2) Is it an official corporate disk / disk image or was it downloaded from a p2p site?

3) More information?

Detailed hardware: Motherboard manufacturer + model, GFX card model, any add in cards?

What tray apps / background applications do you run.  As one of those could potentially cause the crash.



 

[Ice Blade2097]

Gonna try to answer all the questions... if I miss somthing let me know please....

1) I have no clue if its an offical disk/image I found a cdr on my shelf that said Windows XP Pro Corprate SP1 with the cd key written on it.

2)Mother Board: ECS Nforce 570 SLIT A 5.1
      Link: http://www.ecsusa.com/ECSWebSite/Products/...enuID=1&LanID=9

Video: BFG Nivida Geforce 7600 GT
        Link: http://www.bfgtech.com/bfgr76256gtoce.aspx

Sound: On Board, No other add in cards everything else is onboard

Back Ground Apps: I have kept whats is installed to a minimum.  So below are the programs that I see starting up based on the icons loading up in my systray.  If there is a better way to see what programs start up let me know.
      Programs: Avast AntiVirus Home Edition
                      Windows Search
                      RealTech HD Manager
                      Nvida Active Armor Firewall (always disabled)

3) This has always been a confusing thing to me so if anyone can shed light on this it might shed light on the problem.  On the Mother board website in the main driver pack there is this read me that says:

"This Win2K/XP nForce (C51/MCP51) driver package consists of the following components:

Ethernet Driver MCP51 (v50.23) "WHQL"
Network Management Tools MCP51 (v50.23)
SMBus Driver (v4.52) "WHQL"
Installer (v4.93)
Win2K IDE SataRAID Driver (v6.66) "WHQL"
Win2K IDE SataIDE Driver (v6.66) "WHQL"
Win2K RAIDTool Application (v6.63)
WinXP IDE SataRAID Driver (v6.66) "WHQL"
WinXP IDE SataIDE Driver (v6.66) "WHQL"
WinXP RAIDTOOL Application (v6.63)"

In addition to this there is a driver available to download called "Nvidia SATA/RAID Floppy Driver" that is 1.65 megs big (see mother board link for more details"

In the initial set up of this computer I just ran the main driver pack seeing the Win XP IDE SATA Driver mentioned in the read me.  Was I flawed in this reasoning?   If so do I need to run both the Main mother board package and that seperate SATA/Raid floppy driver?  Sorry if the way I typed it out is confusing didn't know how better to ask the question.

[Hidiot]

Let's just hope you have a SATA HDD.

A floppy driver is clearly a driver for a floppy disk reader. Are floppy disks still being built today?

And,uh... if the manufacturer gives you drivers, it is usually safe to assume they work. You just need to know what to install.

[Ice Blade2097]

What is a SATA HDD?

In my prior post didn't mean to allude to questioning if the drivers were safe or not.  Earlier mother boards like my old rig had a SATA driver you had to install during a Windows XP install if the SATA hard drive was going to be your primary.  The driver was installed via a floppy disk.

However, the rig that is having the issues, didn't have any instructions in the manual to install said driver during the windows XP install.  Yet it still had that seperate driver that is 1.45 megs big listed as "Nvidia SATA/RAID Floppy Driver" available for download.  There is no read me in the folder after you download the driver to say what it is.  So I assume it is the driver for the SATA hard drive that you can put on a flopy drive.  What puzzles me is, if it is the driver for the SATA hard drive, then why have a sata driver listed in the read me for the main mother board driver pack? As those would have to be installed after windows is installed making the 1.45meg Nvidia SATA/RAID Floppy Driver pointless I would think.  Which leads to a line of thought.

1) That I should install the 1.45meg driver during the windows install and run the mother board pack with the SATA driver after the windows install as well.

2) If option one is the case is it possible to put the driver on to a cd r or cdrw instead of a floppy and it still work?

I hope that clears up my question about the Nvidia SATA/RAID Floppy Driver.

[Ice Blade2097]

Going to flash my bios and update it to the latest to see if it helps.  One of the fixes in the latest bios is SATA Hang-ups.  I think it is a long shot but here is to hoping right?

[Spikerocks101]

Is this ICE? The old old ICE from the IRC? or another ICE >_>

[Ice Blade2097]

This is ICE .... <_< I dunno about old though.  But this is the one that uses scorpians in the games I play yes.

[Spikerocks101]

MY GOSH! When I first joined the IRC, I thought you were awesome (learning later, that you left, and never thought you would come back). Man, its really awesome to se you again! the only real way to tell, is if you abuse >_> like you did in the IRC

[Hooman]

Lol.

Well, I don't really know how to help with your problem. Computers usually just always work for me. The worst I've ever really had was hard disk problems, but those were obvious.

Although..., just comming to mind, my brother once had a memory chip go bad. Since he had fast booting enabled, it was skipping the memory test, so it wasn't detected. He tried booting with an old DOS boot disk or something, which did it's own memory test, and that's how he found out, by accident.

I suppose that could be worth a shot if you're getting strange and unexplained crashes. Honestly though, it's a bit of a wild guess, and I don't really know.
 

[Ice Blade2097]

Well.... I sucessfully flashed the bios and put the latest on there.  Unfortunatly lock ups still happen if I leave the computer idle.  Odd thing is if I leave a game running in the back ground miraculously no lock ups occur.  The game can even just be sitting there on the task bar minimized.  I say this is odd because if I leave it playing music it still locks up.  Which makes me believe the issue lies in the hard drive going into a sleep mode when it isn't suposed to.  I say isn't suposed to because in the control panel I have it set to never turn off the HD in the energy settings and the screen saver is disabled.

Also went through to see if any of the programs are causing the lock up and I have uninstalled everything but my mother board drivers and sp3 and still lock ups so far.

(only programs left installed)

Realtech Hd Audio Drivers
Nvidia 7600 GT Drivers
Nvidia Mother Board drivers
Xp Service Pack 3

So..... I guess the next thing I can try is rezeroing the hard drive on another computer and have it set up the partitions before hand instead of having windows do it during the install.

If that doesn't work I guess my only options would be to try a different OS disk to see if it is SP 1 kicking me down or adjust the sequence in which I install programs.

(IE install WD tools before installing any service packs so support for large hard drives is enabled from the start instead after the service packs.)

[Hooman]

Like my first reply, I highly suspect it's something to do with power saving features. Setting it to never turn off the harddrive and disabling the screen saver are probably things I would have tried. I'm afraid I don't know what to do after that. There are sometimes a lot of power saving features in a computer, and not all of them can be adjusted in ways that I know of.

If it's a software issue, then changing the OS or drivers may fix the problem. If it's a hardware issue, then it probably won't matter what you install on it.


I find it interesting that it didn't crash while you had a game open, but does while playing music. I'm going to guess that the game loads the CPU significantly, and possibly other resources, while playing music doesn't. A lot of game loops will load the CPU even when they're not doing anything. Maybe try loading the CPU in other ways and see what happens. If keeping the computer loaded prevents crashes, then it's very likely a power saving feature problem.

Check on the CPU usage on the Performance tab of Task Manager (Ctrl+Alt+Del). Also make a note of extra CPUs/Cores, or Hyperthreading (not as good as an extra core, but similar). Doing tests where they're all relatively unused, and some where they're all loaded.


If you need a cheap way to load a CPU, just write an infinite loop in some programming language. I'm going to arbitrarily suggest Ruby, as I've been using it at work and it's a free download with a one click installer. Create a .rb file, and type this:

Code: [Select]

while true
	# Do nothing
end

Run a copy of this for each CPU/Core/Hyperthread to maximize CPU usage.
 

[Ice Blade2097]

Thanks hooman for the tips, Ill give it a whirl.  While im at it.. i noticed in my mother board bios settings it had "performance defaults and Optimized defaults" and no "regular default" selection.  In the manual it mentions nothing about what the defaults do.  So just in the off chance hitting one of the defaults fixes all my whoes... anyone have a sugestion on which default to go for?

[CK9]

well, I'm assuming the performance defults are for streamlining and keeping things moving while optimization is more for bulking up on the individual qualities (for example, setting up a game to perform well could mean sacrificing graphics quality where as optimizing could mean having the optimal settings for the hardware in your computer (better graphics, but could make it run slower)

[Ice Blade2097]

Well good news and bad news....

1) Good news lock up problems seem to be fixed!  Slipstreaming sp2 and the mother board drivers seemd to have fixed the lock up issues.

2) Bad news mouse starts off lit up during boot up and about 75% of the time during the xp load screan it turns off.  Resulting in me having to either unplug the mouse and replug it in or keep rebooting hoping it falls int he 25% category where the mouse stays lit up.

Im 99% sure the mouse isn't bad due to when pluged into other computers the mouse doesn't have this issue.  

Any thoughts on what could be causing this odd mouse issue?

[Hooman]

Hmm... USB power saving feature problem?

Do you have any other USB ports you can use? Maybe just try switching ports. Maybe try swapping between the front and back of your case if you have ports in both places. I've had a USB 2.0 expansion card go bad on me once, and I was stuck using the USB 1.1 from my motherboard.
 

[CK9]

If you either 1) know how to use a keyboard to navagate your computer or 2) have another mouse you can use for a couple minutes, I'd say uninstall the device drivers, unplug the mouse, and plug it back in (this *should* cause the drivers to be re-installed).  If it still acts up, see if you can find the manufactuerer's site

[Freeza-CII]

smash the mouse with a hammer and get a new one.