Memory Metels

[Humility]

I was watching modern marvels about armor.And I saw a interesting thing called memory metels.a memory metel is a metel that if bent, dented or deformed that it will return to it`s original position.They were able to make it"memorise" different positions.Imagine the possibilitys. For example buildings damaged by a earthquake could repair themselves.But, there are limitations this only can fix damage caused by kinetic energy so damage done by energy weapons could not be repaired. But it`s still a interesting notion.

oh, on a related note that same show
had something about liquid armor it was about a substence that the more kinetic energy you used on it the denser it got. It was planning on being used in a light flexible bullet proof armor. because it was liquid when not under extreme pressure but when pressure increased like from a bullet it became solid effectivly stopping the bullet. There may be something similar in a more solid form. But that also seems like it would be interesting to have.

I don`t claim to know if these are good ideals but it`s just a thought.

[Psudomorph]

There is definitely precedent for it. I think it was in Eden Novella chapter 4 that they explained the workings of windows in the colony. The windows consist of two solid layers, with a liquid layer in between. If the solid layers are punctured by a meteor or projectile, the liquid layer will expand into the gap and harden, keeping the atmosphere inside long enough for a DIRT to respond.

I can envision this stuff being pretty seamlessly integrated into the OP world, mostly in the realm of DIRT, and the occasional human soldiers. In addition to body armor, I can see DIRT teams using a variety of expanding/reshaping/hardening goops to repair damage. the concept of making an entire structure out of such self-repairing materials is a logical, if disconcertingly bold step.

I don't believe the memory metal specifically would work, because OP structures have to endure wide temperature changes, and I can only see that interfering with the proper functioning of a memory metal hull. Still, a self-repairing hull would be good, even if it weren't memory metal specifically.

NOTE: "Liquid Armor" probably wouldn't be useful for much above the "personal armor" category, since things like structures and vehicles don't really need much mobility out of their armor.

I can think of two good ways for limited-self-repair armor to be integrated (assuming LSR armor is scientifically plausible for the situation at all):

1. If structures and vehicles in OP3 have customizable armor (think trading off things like expense, protection, weight, etc.), then the LSR armor could be among the researchable options. LSR would be more expensive, but have some advantage, such as preventing damage from impeding the vehicle's efficiency until down to X%, or maybe just reducing damage.
Of course I'm sure the very idea of customizable armor is highly controversial in and of itself, but that's a topic for another thread I suppose.

2. If not part of a customizable armor setup, LSR armor could be a simple research upgrade that slightly increases armor strength, or maybe increases the efficiency of DIRT teams somehow. This strikes me as somewhat uninteresting compared to #1 though.

All in all; I think it's worth pursuing. The only thing I would like to see is more info on how scientifically feasible this is. Could these armors be realistically and practically applied in a venus-like atmosphere, and stand up to the kind of stresses involved?

[Sirbomber]

They had something like what you're suggesting in Outpost 1 Psuedomorph. MPG, which was made from waste produced by your colonists.
Problem is, we've already determined that we have enough resources and don't want to add any more. Unless the GORF would just randomly add to your Common/Rare Metals storage for no apparent reason, simulating the production of this material.

[Freeza-CII]

There is a big difference in Bending and Denting Metal and Shooting it with High Energy weapons.  Your not going to have a memory metal that can brings itself back from being melted or vaporized On a combat vec.

The window was not a memory metal it was just a safty feature of the glass.  That filled in holes.  Much like that s*** you put in car tires.

Liquid armor is not made for lasers and rail guns and it sure as hell wont some a corrosive sticky foam.

[Humility]

I said it could only repair damage done by kinetic energy (denting,bending ect.) you make it sound like i said it could repair damage caused by energy weapons(melting,vaporising ect.)Freesa. I guess it would take some research to find out how good it reforms under fluctuating tempetures,radiation ect.And i was thinking more along the lines of a slow self regeneration limited to damage done by earthquakes, meteors, rock slides ect. for buildings.

[Humility]

The slow regeneration is not possible because it needs heat to reform and the more heat the better but if it reaches 400 degrees celsius it memorises the shape its in when it gets to that point. fluctuations in the tempeture does not matter that much as long as it stays below that point.It does not matter which metel you use all that matters is the size of the grains.You need a balence between large and small grains for it to have its memory property. make it all small grains and it will be brittle and break when bent make it all large and it will bend with out breaking but it will stay bent. when you achieve the correct balance between the large and small grains the metel will gain the memory property. when the metel is bent out of place the small grains will release energy pushing the large grains back into place. Is this plenty of research? I don`t know what you could do with it though.If you do use it nano technology needs to be researched first due to the fact that the grains are measured in nanometers. Thats all I know right now not much but it`s a start.

[BlackBox]

I said it could only repair damage done by kinetic energy (denting,bending ect.)

I still think there are limits to it. If you apply enough mechanical force (kinetic energy) you're going to bend the metal beyond a certain limit. Not only does it get stretched a lot but there is also thermal and chemical things to consider (heat, corrosion, etc).

Weapons that utilize electrical / RF energy are just going to burn holes in it anyway (thermal issue).

[Psudomorph]

Another problem that just occurred to me about memory metal is the price. I once ordered some for a school project, and it was 18 dollars for what I am now calculating to be 0.0075 square inches worth. Seriously, for a while I thought they had goofed and sent an empty package.
If all memory metal is that expensive to make, then the idea of using it in armor would be nothing short of ludicrous, whether or not it even worked to repair damage.

Another thing; could memory metal end up being less protective than normal metal? I assume you have to sacrifice some sort of stability on the molecular level to achieve that reshaping effect.

All in all, I think memory metal has too many problems to be considered feasible for use in armor. There must be far more practical ways to make limited-self-repairing armor.

Also, Sirbomber, I think you may be misreading the topic slightly.  

[Humility]

I said it could only repair damage done by kinetic energy (denting,bending ect.)

I still think there are limits to it. If you apply enough mechanical force (kinetic energy) you're going to bend the metal beyond a certain limit. Not only does it get stretched a lot but there is also thermal and chemical things to consider (heat, corrosion, etc).

Weapons that utilize electrical / RF energy are just going to burn holes in it anyway (thermal issue).

No,There is no limit as to how for you can bend I watched the guy twist and bend some metel into a pretzel and it unbent and twist itself strait. I think we allready decided that energy weapon fire could not be repaired. It might not be able to repair holes burned into but it could repair holes ripped into it by shrapnel from exploding vehicles.you don`t have to worry about heat as long as you chose a heat resistent metel and don`t let it get to 400 degrees celsius while its damaged. And as for corrosion get a metel that is not effected by it (gold ect,) any metel can be used just as long as the grains are balanced.

[Humility]

Another problem that just occurred to me about memory metal is the price. I once ordered some for a school project, and it was 18 dollars for what I am now calculating to be 0.0075 square inches worth. Seriously, for a while I thought they had goofed and sent an empty package.
If all memory metal is that expensive to make, then the idea of using it in armor would be nothing short of ludicrous, whether or not it even worked to repair damage.

Another thing; could memory metal end up being less protective than normal metal? I assume you have to sacrifice some sort of stability on the molecular level to achieve that reshaping effect.

All in all, I think memory metal has too many problems to be considered feasible for use in armor. There must be far more practical ways to make limited-self-repairing armor.

Also, Sirbomber, I think you may be misreading the topic slightly.

They are not going to buy it they are going to make it and it`s expensive because it can only be made in small quantitys right now due to the fact they have to make sure the grains are balanced right i`m sure in op2 they can manipulate the molecular structure a lot easier then we can.And it won`t be weaker it may even be stronger you make it out of steel and it will be as strong as steel no weaker.because all thats different is that the small grains don`t bend as easy as the big grains so they push the big grains back, the integrity is not lessened.So none of the problems you thought of actually exist so can you think of more please?

[Brazilian Fan]

There's another problem: I'm pretty sure that the memory metal needs to be with it's full integrity to return to it's normal state. So, if it shatters for any reason, it wouldn't be able to 'regenerate'.

Also Humility: Do not double post, use the edit button instead.

[Humility]

Ok, I will use the edit button from now on. if it gets blown up I don`t see how it could regenerate either. if it could that would be a bad thing although all the seperate pieces would straiten to what they were but they would not reconnect.But i don`t see how that is a problem.

[Sirbomber]

Also, Sirbomber, I think you may be misreading the topic slightly.

Not really. Pseudomorph was talking about something else and I was just shooting his idea down.

Outpost 2 probably already has this memory metal thing. Your units never take any visible damage after all.    

[Humility]

how do you quote?

The reason you don`t see damage is the graphics not memory metel.

[Sirbomber]

Thus the   at the end of the sentence...
[size=8]Shhh, it was a joke, but don't tell anyone![/size]

[Humility]

oh, ok I did not know that those faces meant anything. Sorry.

[Sirbomber]

There's nothing to be sorry about?

[Humility]

ok  

[CK9]

as to memmory metals, the main use that has been thought of behind them for a few years now, is using them to make buildings.  The buildins are constructed in the factory at a certain temperature, squished down for shipping, and heated to the coorrect temperature to get them back into shape.

The only real applicaion for them in an Outpost game would be to speed up building construction (Which I think would be an okay addition myself, it's very easy to work faster building in without too much balance work)

[Humility]

Where did you read that? Well, it sounds like nice concept and other then armor and construction there are plenty of uses in our reality take  patent5098305 for example which is a patent for what basicly amounts to self wiring wires that save time and space by aligning themselves perfectly with the inside of whatever.there are uses in medical also that include the heart,muscle,bone repair,ect. Take patent 6780175 for a medical splint.There was plenty of other stuff I saw like some collar that worked with the beagle II one of those mars landers.But i could not find that instant building just add heat article you did so please tell me where you read it?It would be most appreciated.

[CK9]

a few years back, there was this show on the Discovery channel about massive construction concepts (including a ship that was basically it's own city, a tower bigger than all others in a conical shape, and a bridge spanning the mediterranian sea).  I can't remember what it was called, but it re-runs at least once a year.

[Humility]

I have seen everything you just stated before but never a instant building.I just went on to www.discovery.channel.com to look used thier search engine and came up with nil.I would assume that what you saw was a concept and that is why i can`t find it.I really want to see somthing about it just from curiosity.

you know  with all these uses i keep finding and hearing it seems like memory metals would be like the perfect technology.Very op. no more build time, self regenerating armor, medical uses galore  ect. I think if you implement it you would have to put it in the advance lab as one of the later techs.

And ck9 if they air that show again could you please e-mail me i would like to watch it.

p.s. I just noticed that I sound rude and inconsiderate. I am sorry.

[CK9]

All of that was still in concept mode.  The guy got the building design idea from a sproket if that helps any.