Aliens

[Combine Crusier]

I was just thinking....... Perhaps the blight could attempe to take a more humanoid form but due to the difference between Earth and New Terra it became something totally different but had the capabilities that humans have plus the knowledge of the savants however this would cause them to lose their ability to grow as scattered micro-organisms. Also if the blight did this it allow them to construct things and perhaps even a starship which would permitt them to follow the humans without infecting the entire planet, this would also permit them to control their ability to take the oxygen atoms out of things thus making them able to walk in structures without destroying everything they touch that has oxygen in it. It would still be the blight of course, just an advanced and more independent form.

EDIT:
This would also allow for ideas on new technologies, vehicles, and structures that would be used for the blight.

[Psudomorph]

Hmm... Wow...

Well, first I think you are depending on a technicality to get around the whole "no aliens" thing, but whatever, I will respond to the idea on its own merits.

I will admit its an idea I can see as just barely feasible. Once the blight becomes the neural network of the savants, maybe they could somehow gain control of it at the DNA level, rewriting the DNA of blight cells to grow different organisms.

It would be the equivalent of you growing a baby inside your own brain just by thinking about it, but the savants will have a heck of a lot of computing power available to them, maybe, just maybe.

On the other hand, it seems much more likely that they could just allow the blight to stay as it is, and conduct their affairs with humanity through robot bodies. Being computers, it would be relatively easy for them to upload/download individual savant personalities into human-made shells, be they robotic, or just the type of computer they were originally. This is of course assuming that humans are willing to build the things, and allow the now-sentient savants to take them over.

Think of it, if you have all the thinking power of an entire planet, why would you willingly give that up to become limited organisms permanently, especially when you can just transfer your consciousness into and out of the planetary mind whenever you want anyway?

I can definitely see some savants leaving the planet-mind, and taking control of robots/computers, thereby effectively "following" the humans to their new world. It would present the possibility of some good old Man vs. AI friction in the colonies, and might be an angle worth pursuing.

In short:
Savant-Blight interacting with humanity through vaguely human-ish bodies: Great idea.
Savant-Blight turning itself into biological bodies that look like aliens: Not so much.

70 out of 100 isn't bad.

[Sirbomber]

You want the Blight to evolve from single-celled organism to sentient multicellular humanoid in a day?  It just doesn't work that way.

P.S. Sorry stormy, I know they don't believe in "evilution" down in Texas.    

[zanco]

Nice answer SirBomber. This was an idea suggested by the developers and also dropped by them (us). It is very much not feasible (even if we are still in a fictive world).

Think of a "Savant Network" as Zombie Machines... that's all. They are not really capable of doing researches nor thinking at the level we humans do, nor to interact at that level.

And again, As Sirbomber put it, the blight is single-celled organism...

[Arklon]

Think of a "Savant Network" as Zombie Machines... that's all. They are not really capable of doing researches nor thinking at the level we humans do, nor to interact at that level.

Er, the Savants have a quite powerful thinking ability, beyond what their human creators originally believed it was.

[Psudomorph]

Think of a "Savant Network" as Zombie Machines... that's all. They are not really capable of doing researches nor thinking at the level we humans do, nor to interact at that level.

Er, the Savants have a quite powerful thinking ability, beyond what their human creators originally believed it was.

True. With the savants incorporated into it, you can kind of think of the blight as a bunch of brain cells that just happen to reproduce very rapidly. In  the novella, the savants were theorizing that with a small piece of savant protein in each of them, each blight cell would effectively act like a brain cell, sending impulses to nearby cells, forming a giant brain the size of a planet.

In other words, the blight is far more intelligent than humans, but of course it has no real way communicate that intelligence, save for the radios in the old skydock (See the last chapter of the plymoth novella).
Its like a giant brain with a radio antenna sticking out of it, it can think, broadcast its thoughts, maybe even receive replies, but it has no real body to control.

The issue of the original post would not be evolution in the normal sense at all. The issue would be whether the savants could use the awesome thinking power of their neural network to somehow influence or outright rewrite the DNA of a blight cell. Like I said, it would be like a human trying to think one of their brain cells into growing an alien body.
Personally I don't think it would be possible even for an entity with as much thinking power as the savant network.

The idea of the savant network gaining a foothold in the "abstract" human world is a good one I think, it just isn't likely that they would ever get biological bodies, but rather interact through robots they had taken over.

I'm envisioning a few savants leaving the Blight network by transmitting their personalities through the radio link in the Skydock (probably they are curious about this "abstract" world, and are willing to leave the Link to explore it). The transmitted personalities could sneak their way into a colony computer network (Possibly some of the savants that the humans took with them in the starship wish to join the great link on New Terra, and would be willing to exchange places with some of the new-terran savants).

However it happens, once savant personalities can move from the Link to the human colony, they would be able to control robots and buildings if they wanted to. Whether they would do this with the blessing of the colonists is questionable, but however it happens, savant controlled robots could easily build more of themselves, and grow into a new colony.
Or maybe humans would willingly give the savants a few robots, in exchange for some piece of research they desperately needed or something.

(Note: I don't think the savant network should be considered hostile towards humanity. Judging from the novella, their attitude would probably be mostly curiosity towards humans and their universe. Obviously some savants wouldn't care about the physical universe, but they would stay in the Link anyway. The ones that left the link would probably only do so for the sake of curiosity, or maybe a desire to help their creators.)

[BlackBox]

Well, while we're on this topic, there does need to be some rationale for the blight following the humans to Cythera (it's not going to just appear).

And I think the whole idea of the blight evolving into sentient life forms whether it be "aliens" or humanoids is much too far fetched (hard science, remember!)

I think the most you can say about the blight causing savants to act differently is that it could be damaging their biological parts. (Thinking of Eden Mission 4, where you go into the old base to get the data from the labs. The units and guardposts there would fire at anything because it no longer had the ability to reason / figure out whether it was a threat or not since it was functioning at such a basic level). Of course you could say that this damage is causing it to act irrationally (purposely attempt to kill humans or curiosity in seeing what happens when humans are destroyed?)

In other words it is a chicken with its head cut off if there aren't Savants somewhere on the planet to control it. (Like mentioned in numerous other threads the Blight is basically a computing platform for the Savants, it cannot think for itself). Nor can it start creating its own stuff without the help of already existing machines / robots / whatever. So the argument that it is going to grow arms or whatever and start building its own things from scratch is kind of flawed. The most it could do is utilize the already existing structures on the planet that the humans left to do things. (Like mentioned already, the radio transmitter was put there by the humans, it didn't create it on its own, so it's unlikely it is going to create anything else by thought / whatever alone)

[Combine Crusier]

Your forgetting Van Doziers Classification.................. Clones! The savants may out of curiosity, attempt to modify the genetic structure of the human body and implement blight genetics, this would require significant alteration however using the colonies cloning technology would make it feasible.

[Psudomorph]

Two points to make:

One:

I can't be sure without feedback from the developers, but I get the feeling that the Blight never reaches Cythera.

The blight stayed on New Terra, but unfortunately so did Plymoth, having been beaten to space by Eden.

Thus for at least a portion of Genesis, Plymoth will be stuck on this dieing world, still trying to outrun the blight in what little unconsumed space is left of the planet.

Two:

I originally intended to discuss savants here, but the post got exceedingly long and detailed, so I am just going to go the whole nine-yards and write a small (by which I mean not-small) essay on the subject and post it separately.

Writing the essay is causing me to revise some of my earlier beliefs. I'm starting to think that it may be possible for the savants to alter the behavior of blight cells, and maybe even grow bodies from them. It would depend on exactly how much control the Savants had over the DNA of individual blight cells. Originally I thought they had none at all, but I think I might have been wrong.
Essentially, if the Savants have full control of the Blight DNA on a cell-by-cell basis, they could program the cells to do anything they want, from ceasing to reproduce (maybe this is how plymoth survives?), to changing into completely different configurations (think growing flagella, forming into colonies, growing organelles, etc.). It would literally be intelligent design, and could thus bypass the long timespan that natural evolution requires.

Please note that I still disagree with the idea, and it seems un-OP2-ish to me for some reason. I'm just saying that it doesn't look as impossible as I thought it was before.

[Arklon]

Well, while we're on this topic, there does need to be some rationale for the blight following the humans to Cythera (it's not going to just appear).

And I think the whole idea of the blight evolving into sentient life forms whether it be "aliens" or humanoids is much too far fetched (hard science, remember!)

I think the most you can say about the blight causing savants to act differently is that it could be damaging their biological parts. (Thinking of Eden Mission 4, where you go into the old base to get the data from the labs. The units and guardposts there would fire at anything because it no longer had the ability to reason / figure out whether it was a threat or not since it was functioning at such a basic level). Of course you could say that this damage is causing it to act irrationally (purposely attempt to kill humans or curiosity in seeing what happens when humans are destroyed?)

In other words it is a chicken with its head cut off if there aren't Savants somewhere on the planet to control it. (Like mentioned in numerous other threads the Blight is basically a computing platform for the Savants, it cannot think for itself). Nor can it start creating its own stuff without the help of already existing machines / robots / whatever. So the argument that it is going to grow arms or whatever and start building its own things from scratch is kind of flawed. The most it could do is utilize the already existing structures on the planet that the humans left to do things. (Like mentioned already, the radio transmitter was put there by the humans, it didn't create it on its own, so it's unlikely it is going to create anything else by thought / whatever alone)

Everything in OP2 uses a protein-based friend-or-foe detection system. The Blight destroys these proteins, which caused the prototype weapons to detect everything as a threat. Vehicles, turrets, and guard posts use only heavily castrated built-in Savant computers. We don't really know what happens to an infected Savant.

(Note: I don't think the savant network should be considered hostile towards humanity. Judging from the novella, their attitude would probably be mostly curiosity towards humans and their universe. Obviously some savants wouldn't care about the physical universe, but they would stay in the Link anyway. The ones that left the link would probably only do so for the sake of curiosity, or maybe a desire to help their creators.)

Thinking too much causes insanity/"enlightenment".

[Sirbomber]

Nice answer SirBomber.

What did you call me?!!
For the last time my name does not have a capital 'b'.
Do not make the same mistake twice or you will face eternal punishment.


(Preview of Zanco's eternal punishment)

Semi On-Topic Edit: Another idea shot down by me. Next.

[Combine Crusier]

THe thing about the robots the blight currently controls is that they are all damaged and may explode without warning, in order for them to produce vehicles that work in harmony with the blight they would need to make organic bodies first because the machinery they currently control is damaged and may be flawed.

[Arklon]

THe thing about the robots the blight currently controls is that they are all damaged and may explode without warning, in order for them to produce vehicles that work in harmony with the blight they would need to make organic bodies first because the machinery they currently control is damaged and may be flawed.

No, they don't need to make organic bodies, you just want them to. :rolleyes:
Only advanced labs (which they probably won't use), guard posts, and spaceports spontaneously explode when damaged.

[zanco]

Who told you they were producing units on their own?

All *we* (we as the people who are still on New Terra) know so far is that they aren't not quite capable of thinking that much and can only *infect* vehicles we have made and somehow turn them against us.

[Arklon]

All *we* (we as the people who are still on New Terra) know so far is that they aren't not quite capable of thinking that much and can only *infect* vehicles we have made and somehow turn them against us.

Not without something to manipulate and utilize the Blight bacterium, no.

[Combine Crusier]

The infected structures are intact for the most part.
I was told that there will be 5 colonies... what are they?
Plymouth:
Eden:
Maesis:
Savants:
?: What's the fifth?

[Freeza-CII]

There are Savants in the CCs and RCCs of the colonies.  And there was at one point Hardend units to survive the blight to scan the labs.  Plus the savants are pretty damn smart and they have machine capable of making cars from the 50s.  I dont see why any of the savants couldnt manipulate the left over machinery to make a units that wouldnt be harmed by the blight.  Because even tho with the machine working on a damage boptronic they would still function like the units observed in the game.  Kinda crazy but still operable.

[Sirbomber]

Plus the savants are pretty damn smart and they have machine capable of making cars from the 50s.

That's just a standard VF Freeza, and it could only do that because somebody programmed it to.

For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about:

Kimberly Cole, Rashad's supervisor, waved to him from the landing outside the control room.  "Come on, Rashad.  The transport's waiting.  We need to roll."
Rashad didn't look up from the Vehicle Factory's master programming panel.  He rotated the master schematic on his screen for one last check.  Everything had to be right, as there would be nobody here to fix it if it went wrong.  "Coming," he said.  "I just have to get this last vehicle assembly started."
Cole took the last step into the control room.  She looked curiously over his shoulder.  "What vehicle?  We're bugging out, Rashad.  The Blight waits for no man or woman."  She studied the schematic more closely.  "What in blazes is that thing?  Did you design it?"

Rashad grinned.  "I did the pattern and programming, but nope, I didn't design it.  Found it in a book of Earth vehicles."
She stared at him.  "Rashad, we're leaving, bugging out.  There won't be anyone left here when this thing is finished.  You aren't planning on staying, I hope."
"Nope."
"Good, because that thing will barely be finished before the Blight hits, and from the looks of it, I don't give you much chance of driving out in it.  I don't suppose you expect it to autodrive out after us."

He just laughed, even though she didn't get the joke.  He tapped the "run" icon and climbed out of the chair.  "That does it; let's go."
Below them on the factory floor, the robotic machinery was already in motion, sparks flying as it fabricated parts from raw metal stock.
They walked down the stairs, along a corridor, and down a ramp to the tunnel toward the CC, where the Evac Transport was waiting.
She looked at him.  "What was that all about?"
He shrugged.  "Something I've wanted to build since I found it in that old database, but never had the chance.  Well, the factory isn't doing anything now, and any resources that aren't on a truck are toast anyway, so I figured, why not?"

"You'll never see it."
"I'll know it was built.  That'll be something.  Maybe it'll even survive the Blight, and somebody will find it someday."  He chuckled.  "It'll make them crazy figuring it out."
They said nothing for a while, but as they climbed the ramp to the CC, she finally asked the question.  "What was that thing, anyway?  I've never seen anything like it."
He smiled.  "It's called a 1957 Chevy."