Author Topic: I Think It Fits Here.  (Read 10318 times)

Offline Chandler

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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2007, 08:36:32 PM »
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If you notice, most of the comments were directed to individuals.  Some or all of which you won't have heard or know about as they were  admin/private conversations.
All I wish to say:

If so, keep it as admin/private comments. OPU does not need this sort of crap made public. Yes, I have absolutely no idea what this is about, but seen as I'm not involved, I can talk about it without flaming.

If you have disagreements with people, sort it out with them, don't have a public b**** about it. Don't run from your problems, solve them. If you can't solve them, then leave. BUT DON'T GO KICKING AND SCREAMING.
Chandler

Offline op2rules

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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2007, 09:11:47 PM »
I 2nd what Chandler said, i find it really harsh to OPU to be insulting people that badly for reasons that aren't all that big. So he doesn't like lev's attempts to make people more socialize and make OPU more popular? Well i don't think he should just flame him in public...

I don't really have much of a say in this since most people of OPU ignore me now, and i have no idea why, and i might leave also, but this is just my opinion.
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Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2007, 02:05:48 AM »
The OP3 projects are inherently flawed from the start. There are too many reasons to name and listing them out will only get you guys to focus on my list and not what Im trying to say. I think this happened with Freezas comments.

The way OPU is being run is flawed. The admins are in charge, period. Not the peanut gallery. Admins should not have to keep their lips buttoned because youre "used" to admins not being active in the day-to-day activity. We are a small community, not qnet. Admins have the right to voice their opinions whenever they want if you dont like it, get the f*** out. OPU is alot friendlier than *alot* of communities Ive seen so you should actually feel pretty lucky.

We tolerate alot of noobness that would normally get yur ass kickbanned without warning. So everytime you get away with using /me more than twice in an hour you should thank us. Every admin does alot behind the scenes, just because we dont give everyone the play by play doesnt mean we sit around doing nothing. If we are silent, you accuse us of doing nothing and being useless. If we are active, you hate us for what we say and how we say it. Since you cant decide the ones in charge get to decide for you. Suck it up.

Freeza is fed up with some things in the community. He is fed up that they havent been properly addressed. Go cry in the corner if you dont like what was said. Going down his list of reasons and coming up with a creative counter to it doesnt make what is said any less valid. Look at what he said and consider it.

The OP3 projects like using their hindsight or vaporous insight as an excuse. We see no progress for months (or years) and when someone speaks up someone inevitably says "THATS WRONG! WE HAVE ANOTHER GUY ON OUR TEAM AND ARE ALMOST DONE WITH A DEMO!" Well if nobody else knows about it but you it doesnt count. If theres no way to verify your progress it doesnt count. If you cant give dates or make public updates, you might as well not be doing anything at all.

In spite of all the furvor that was had over my comments I still have not seen *anything* to indicate Im wrong in any way. I received threats from garrett that he would mess with the IRC server to get rid of me, and that I should "watch my back." And Im the one whose corrupt?! C'mon. Grow up and be real with us. If youre too busy to work on the project, let us know. And certainly dont get pissed off when theres no activity and someone happens to notice.

Ya, freeza dug up some s***. Thats exactly what he wanted. To get people talking, thinking and acting. Thats why I tore OP3 a new one in public. Im sure more work has been done on Genesis and TFC since this thread started than in the entire previous year. The community needs a big kick in the ass.

Offline Sl0vi

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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2007, 06:11:54 AM »
Exactly the same can be said about being an admin. If you don't tell us what your doing or there is no way to verify what your doing it doesn't count. So horus, what do you do besides flame and whine???
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2007, 10:04:15 AM »
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wtf! Lev is the one that has kept this community together for this long. YOUR the one that seems to have a lack of appreciation for what ppl are actually accomplishing.
thx for your support. dont worry ill be sticking with opu! :D

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2007, 02:25:09 PM »
Read all the words dont skim or pick apart this to try to find some thing to beat over some ones head it will just show where the corruption is.

OK let me just make a few things clear.  I didnt leave OPU for good I might come back after a while.  The reasons for my leaving you need not know and if you ask Ill hurt you badly :P but my reasons for leaving have actually little to do with OPU.  This thread stated some things in a very mean way.  It was in hope that you all would actually open your eyes and see what is happening.  This does have any thing to do with mod/admin decidions that were done in private.  Most of what I talked about was from personal observations and listening to people and seeing what people were doing.  I know I may have pissed off a few people but then it was the hope that it would kick you in the ass and bring you out of the stupier that seems to cloud opu for a while.

I would like the state that most of you either dont care to read or just didnt read all of the post.  Let me point out what I am talking about.

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Sl0vi, I can see you tried to talk about something you know a little bit about - Fenrisul - but even that is skewed. The fact is, all the admins decided fenris should be banned. Hacker let me ban him because I was a new admin and hadnt done a ban before and thought learning the process would be useful. Later, he claimed he knew nothing about the ban and let me take the blame from the hordes of ignorant fanboys which is exactly why freeza brought it up. Its got less to do with fenris and more to do with half-truths and apathy on the part of the other admins. So there, its done lets put it to rest and get back to the overall issues Freeza is discussing:

If you re read this youll see that it clearly states that All the admins were involved in the ban of fenrisul NOT just hacker and/or horus.  Horus is the one that did the clicking because he had no banned any one and was told to do it after the rest agreed.  Fenrisul was Unbanned for the same reasons because you people cant except that a person is banned.  The same could be said with moogle to till evidice was presented and you all promtly shut up.  Guess we really can do our jobs right GO FIGURE.

And its apparant that some of you dont know what is going on.  Yes you can still put in your 2 cents in but remember No one is claiming to know every thing and this isnt a popularity contest nor is it about how long you have been in the community.  You need to sit back read the threads that were questions or ask other people about what is going on before you trying coming at me because youll end up with out a chair to sit on.  

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Levi spams, that's no secret. Atleast he cares

I care and you should too.  How would you like it if you knew that the result of levi's spamming has gotten him banned from other networks and has actually pissed off or driven people further away from the forums and IRC.  How do you like it when you get spam you ignore it right well thats what will happen with levi and it has.  Kosh was Imed by levi to get on the forums and i asked kosh about it he said he knew where the damn forums where.  Remember spam in regaurd to IM and email is not really about the quanity its about the message.  Driving old people away by spam is not a good thing so you should f***ing care.

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Why are you so p***ed off about what the OP3 team is doing? What the hell is the point in flaming them?

WHY did i do it because i am tired of being in the dark and i am tired of the ideas that have no direction or cant be completely thought out because of the lack of information about the planet and other such things.  Now Genesis has a newsletter that I pestered them into so people would stay interested in Genesis.  But i also know that there are some that are basicly sick of op3 they have seen so many come and go that it doesnt mater its just the next failure.  Do I think they have problems yes And i said them.  But you people think its was just to be mean or just to jab some one in the gut on my way out.  Well your only half right.  I wanted to give them a kick in the ass so they would start showing the community that op3 is alive and its not going to be worthless.  But I still have to stand by the statement that they dont have enough people.  Come on they are killing themselves trying to get the game done but it really isnt enough you all have to realize that.

I know alot of you dont like Horus.  I can see why he can be a ass and a bit paranoid some times but so what.  He does his job as a admin.  Having some thing personal against some one is no reason to jump down his throat every time he does some thing.  People trying to get him for corruption PMing semi private convos to other people to get more people against horus.  Saying that horus is going to be banned hell or high water.  You people keep pushing on him and he will either leave or he will f***ing explode and then youll see the corruption that you people have caused.

I didnt ask any one to agree or disagree with me i didnt ask any thing of any one other then arklon.  I wanted you people to just f***ing see what I see.

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2007, 04:30:54 PM »
Sl0vi you didnt pay attention did you? Admins dont have to justify themselves. Admins are in charge and if you dont like how things are going, leave. Admins only have to justify themselves to other admins not the peanut gallery. None of the other admins think Im doing a terrible job. Besides, we are talking about OPU as a whole - NOT mean Mr. Horus. Stop trying to make me crumble instead of looking at the issues at hand - it wont work.

Offline Sl0vi

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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2007, 11:02:28 AM »
Horus, you are the issue, and you'll have to f***ing ban me before I'll shut up or leave. And I don't care what the other mods think about you, just the disturbance your causing in this community is more than enough reason that you should be banned. And horus, admins most definetly have to justify themselves, and as long as admins try to avoid justifying themselves their going to meet resistance. That's the difference between the Moogle and the Fenrisul insident. You could justify yourselves when it came to Moogle, so people shut up about it. You couldn't when it came to Fenrisul, so your still getting s*** for it. And I'll keep giving you s*** for it until you clean up your act or ban me.

@Freeza, if I didn't care why would I bother argueing with you. And before you go flaming people like this in public, you should make it clear what the hell you got to back up your claims with, otherwise keep it in private! You only made some brief and unclear statements of what you actually were flaming levi for.

I know all admins were involved in the ban, which later just turned out to have been based on bs from horus. And since this was to test him, you should have seen right away that he wasn't suitable as an admin. Just forgetting about it, like you guys tried to do doesn't change a single thing.

Maybe your tired of being in the dark, maybe people have given up on an OP3 ever being made. It's still a bad excuse for going on a flaming run on a project that isn't yours! There are others ways of letting your views being known than flaming.
!!!YAY!!!

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2007, 02:26:12 PM »
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Maybe your tired of being in the dark, maybe people have given up on an OP3 ever being made. It's still a bad excuse for going on a flaming run on a project that isn't yours! There are others ways of letting your views being known than flaming.
Sl0vi, youre one of the last people who should be discussing this since everything you *think* you know is from 3rd or 4th party sources. You can tell you dont know what youre talking about because your points of discussion are being openly conjectured by you! Anyone who has to guess about what happened or whats going on shouldnt be saying much in here. You certainly can demand I be banned because wittle usas dun like mean ol' mista Horus but it doesnt mean it will happen or that youre right. I just think its funny that in a discussion about global OPU problems people immediately take it as an excuse to show how they want me out no matter what for any reason they have to create. It shows how corrupt some lesser users are. I wont change the way I say things just so you feel more comfortable.

Youre making it obvious that you have something personal against me and dont mine hijacking threads to b**** and whine. Take it somewhere else. Back to the issues at hand...

Freeza said things that had to be said. If he said them in such a way that people were motivated into action, all the better. Now I will say something that has to be said: If youre mature and amd smart enough you would have noticed Freeza's wording and let all those nasty words slide by. You should be looking at what he was saying not how he said it. Letting his wording get to you makes you look like a fool. Blindly defending people and projects you know nothing about is meaningless. Freeza made his comments in public for two reasons: to let everyone know his thoughts and observations and to stir up s*** by wording his thoughts so the noobs of the community would freak out. It worked pretty well from what I can see.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 05:10:10 PM by dm-horus »

Offline Mez

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« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2007, 03:44:35 PM »
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Horus, you are the issue, and you'll have to f***ing ban me before I'll shut up or leave. And I don't care what the other mods think about you, just the disturbance your causing in this community is more than enough reason that you should be banned. And horus, admins most definetly have to justify themselves, and as long as admins try to avoid justifying themselves their going to meet resistance. That's the difference between the Moogle and the Fenrisul insident. You could justify yourselves when it came to Moogle, so people shut up about it. You couldn't when it came to Fenrisul, so your still getting s*** for it. And I'll keep giving you s*** for it until you clean up your act or ban me.
Shut up Sl0vi and stop whining whilst your at it.

I don't read the message boards to see a conversation between two members.  With one defending themselves and not reacting to your opinions and you continuing to dig it in.

I would lock the topic as you are now flaming but the topic is more important than your own moan, and splitting the topic would also be a pain as people have quoted you.

Continue moaning in a new topic if you wish, or ill move it to a new one for you if you do continue in this thread.

I could go further but my own post would turn into a flamewar.

Admins do stuff on the behalf of everyone else as well as themselves, and can choose to tell others what they have done or not.

Horus knows that he has the full backing of all the admins + GM's (I can't speak for the mods), perhaps that can waiver from time to time, but that happens between all friends, for many different reasons.

Offline Sl0vi

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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2007, 06:26:17 AM »
Wow! you want to lock the thread because I'm flaming! The very first post in this thread was flaming. Talk about hypocracy...  
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Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2007, 11:58:04 AM »
haha sl0vi, youre really grasping at straws now. all the admins agreed this thread should be left up because it brings up issues that *should* be discussed. if you cant do anything other than berate individuals and their comments instead of discussing the issues at hand your comments will simply be moved to the trash can. you have already taken up most of the second page of this thread with nothing productive taking place.

Offline TRIX Rabbit

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« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2007, 09:36:40 PM »
Man, I leave for a few months due to lung problems, and I come back to this? Freeza, I think your cool and all but you make some interesting posts, my friend. I agree with your comment on Horus. He's just up everywhere in stuff. (no offense horus)


I'll just go now.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 09:37:34 PM by TRIX Rabbit »
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Offline Tellaris

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« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2007, 10:45:37 PM »
Alright, you guys need to stop argueing and CALM THE HELL DOWN.   Slovi, even I can see that your just openly attacking, DM-Horus speifically.   Please, stop doing it.   I don't want to see it, and neither does anyone else.   If you have a personal vendetta against him, take it somewhere else.   Otherwise, just try to stay on topic.
As for the rest of this...
Yea, some people are sick of seeing multitude of failured OP3 projects.   But even then, still lend your support!   Somebody might actually come through some day.   As long as there is still people here, at OPU, there is always a chance one may materialize.   Theres also a pretty good chance it'll be really good, like some other player made fan games I've had the chance to try.   (There was one based off of Babylon 5 that was pretty good, I don't have it anymore).   So long as they don't let their project get clouded by fanboyism.   Ideas are good, but they have to think whats going to work, and what won't.   If its cool, then thats just another plus.   Thats partly why the OP2 combat looks and feels somewhat incomplete with stalemates easily occureing.   Its because it was tacked on just to appeal to another crowd, basically "Because its cool".   Fanboyism did take a role here, as they where trying to appeal to the C&C crowd.   AVOID FANBOYISM LIKE THE PLAGUE.  It is the death of ANYTHING, includeing a recent movie known as Snakes on a Plane...   Fairly promising, until the fanboyism takes its effect.
Yea, I'm sure theres plenty of s*** going on behind the screens.   I'm one who endorses a plan like I found on a different MMORPG (its kinda dead now), but what they did was have the Admins judgement was FINAL.   Players could appeal the admins' decsion, and the community could go to hell as far as the admins where concerned based on their decisions.   It was all within reason of course, and it was done in a 3 strike style system, with escallateing punishments eventually leading up to ban.   It went like this.
1. Personal warning to behave
2. PMed message to behave
3. PMed message to behave with threat of 5 minuite kick
4. 5 minuite ban with message of what they where doing wrong.
5. Day ban (24 hrs)
6. Perma ban.
This was based on infractions of the RoC (rules of conduct).   This setup allows them to make decisions with an air of finality.   The affected person can appeal the decision if they think its not fair, and can try to get the punishment removed or reduced in severity.   This gave them the flexibility to have a sort of finality to their decisions.   And, if people asked,  they simply ignored requests unless the affected party didn't mind.   They never bothered to explain themselves when it came to stuff like that.   Nor did they have to.

Note, they created a second, locked forum for admins/mods to create a whatchlist of frequent troublemakers.   If steps where taken against you, they added you to this list, and gave the reason for the decision and the respective logs.   Players on the whatch list where often given a more severe sentence then first time offenders (actually a lot like the current legal system too)
This also allowed them to avoid eliminateing a specific age group too, as they treated everybody the same when it came to this.   The document that you agreed to, the TOS, was actually written out in lawyer style, so it would stand up in any court.
As such, they where removed from any liability that underaged people's parents might try to dump on them.
Of course, a certain amount of openness to the community needs to be instituted too.   In the past, changes to OP2 that affected game play where added without the knowledge of the players.   This must be prevented.   ANY change to OP2 officially endoursed by OPU SHOULD list exactly how it affects the game, in layman's terms.   This helps prevent some one from also trying to slip in some sort of personal cheat, especially if the changes must be approved by the other programming admins, as well as examined by them.   I trust hacker not to exploit the game system.   If he was going to, he would have done so long ago.   But we do need to keep an eye on those who might think to do so.
We also need specific rules governing the exploitation of game bugs, most specifically, the one that gives you a free structure kit.   I'm not going into detail on this one, I don't want people trying to actually do it.   And I hope anyone trying to describe it gets that section of their post removed, we don't need people trying to cheat in that manner.   Especially in Multiplayer.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 10:51:59 PM by Baikon »
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Offline Kurgan

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« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2007, 06:13:26 PM »
I note that me and Freeza had a little bit of an argument a while back over private messages, debating whether an Admin had to explain his reasoning. My side was that a modification of posts required at least a note to the affected party that their post had been modified or deleted. It was rather distressing when looking through an old post to see "Post modified by:" followed by a name other than my own.
After a bit of prodding I finally got my answer, I had commented on grammar, and he gave the full explaination of why he removed that portion of my post.
His answer made complete sense to me, and I did not continue to press the point. However, the fact that I could have a post modified without my knowledge made me feel rather... Defiled, in and of itself, and justification practices such as informing the "modified party" would go a long way to making sure EVERYONE knows that the Administrators and Moderators are doing their parts to keep the forum a safe and civil place for all of us.
And Freeza, I'm glad you could blow off steam in a way that only made a FEW people unhappy.  :P
I hope you'll come back before too long, I'm sure there are plenty here that'll miss you.

~Kurgan Out.~ :op2:  

Offline Mez

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« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2007, 07:53:15 PM »
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It was rather distressing when looking through an old post to see "Post modified by:" followed by a name other than my own.
After a bit of prodding I finally got my answer, I had commented on grammar, and he gave the full explaination of why he removed that portion of my post.
 
Just coping a line of the Forum Rules for clarity:

Also note that we have the right to delete and/or modify any post that is hateful, offensive, or profane.


This means that
We do not have to explain why we modified a post, sometimes it is best not to, to
a) protect the poster
b) keep things running smoothly

Normally we will give a reason where appropriate, e.g. my edit of Freeza's first post in this thread for readability.

Edit: Disabling stupid emotion shortcut 'b)'
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 07:54:40 PM by Mez »