Power Generation In Op2/3

[dm-horus]

yeah theres tons of ways to get energy. the only question is if any structure built to collect it would survive long enough to be of use bob sounds pretty hostile. and its NOT as simple as building them with traces of some compound that negates its effects

something else that bothered me: in the forums someone on the OP3 team (i forget who, prolly lee) said that OP3 is supposed to be just like op2 only in 3d. however in other threads ppl (like stormy) are saying that OP3 basically takes place outside of the op2 story arc. something about a second starship. which is the right one?

[Hooman]

I've never heard anyone say OP3 was gonna be just like OP2 except in 3D. Sure it's an Outpost game, so it'll be similar in some ways, but it sounds fairly different to me.

From what I've heard so far of their story line, when Earth was destroyed there were actually two starships built, and sent in different directions. I think this might have had something to do with the storyline from the original Outpost, but I wouldn't really know. I'm not familiar with that game. Anyways, seems this is the story of the other starship maybe? (I guess that could kill any discussion of blight/savant debates, since it wouldn't really apply to the other story   )

Or I could just be very very wrong about all this. If it's not a technical programming detail, I'm prone to forget or have things get mixed up.  
 

[dm-horus]

I got a PM(?) from someone in IRC (possibly Harky) who said "basically its going to be like op2 in 3d." When I saw that, I jumped a bit because up until then (if you knew about my initial incident with op3, you know what i mean) it was made clear that its not this simple. i made sure to make a note of it as whoever mentioned this was obviously in the core team (asking me if i know how to code). im not trying to start a sidition or anything, but im just trying to say that i got mixed signals here im going under the assumption that this is a vastly different storyline and i agree that all discussions about blight in regard to op3 SHOULD BE DROPPED. bringing back the microbe might be great for an op2 addon but i doubt theres a place for it in op3.

[Stormy]

Well, Part of the story involves the blight, but there are elements that make it a LOT different than it is in OP2. Most of the game doesn't have to do with the Blight, and also, there is NO blight on "Bob" (big super duper line ). I think you can guess the rest. Maybe... I don't want to ruin the story for you That's why i'm cautious

[Freeza-CII]

Well even if the planet is so hot that the rubber or plastic fails dont really matter.  There is only a certain degree of realism you want in the game.  After you pass that you just have a game that becomes very anal in the realism department and then no one will play it for the buildings blow up when you start the game.

I love the cheeto factory lol

[dm-horus]

i agree. i kinda started splitting hairs there its a common thing i do :P

[Sirbomber]

I was wondering though: How could they ever have ended up in such a hostile place? Their choices are basically Venus or Pluto? They sent out probes to make sure that wouldn't happen. They didn't just play rock-paper-scissors and let the winner pick which way they went...

[dm-horus]

Ive got no idea. but its their story and their game. they can do it however they want. since i cant make games from scratch on my own, ill make mods for other games that tells the story i like. anyone can do that, too

mincing story and technical ideas is great but only makes a big difference if ppl decide to use them. i think everyones got their choices made. i wonder about those things myself, tho. maybe some unforseen problem forced them to pick a nearby planet that wasnt ideal?

[Sirbomber]

maybe some unforseen problem forced them to pick a nearby planet that wasnt ideal?

What, the janitor relieved himself on the Command Module?

Well, I suppose it is their story...

[leeor_net]

DM-Horus is on the right track. But that's more than I ever wanted to say... ;-)

[Betaray]

of corse, op1 was never very realistic with their plantets eather, just on the frount of the box it shows a coloney on a volcanic planet with an atmosphere of carbon dioxide, methane, and sulphuric acid, and surface tempretures of 900 F

also I remember landing on a planet that had an escape velocity of .000001 mph lol

so I guess even with op1, supposidly the more real of the 2, realism isnt that much of a factor when it comes to planetary envirments, so even though im normally anal about stuff like this, I would say, do whatever the hell you want, and who cares about if its real or not

[gamerscd0]

well i think that the option of using stem was never explored enought
i think that it should be put into biger scale not so tiny like one over
a big vent

[leeor_net]

We need to remember that OP1 was not a finished product. There were still mistakes in it but the science behind it was sound... well... the science that was used to develop the design. The game was broken in a lot of ways.

Anyway, I believe we'll be sticking with Tokamak's because they're effective (albeit dangerous) and that was the main source of power for both OP1/OP2.

I do believe that other sources of power should be explored as well and DM-Horus has some great ideas.

[Harky]

I think that Solar power should be available. Its True thats the one main energy producing object that was sent with the starship from new terra to "bob"..  Why include a Solar sat in the Orbital Package  and decide to land on such a harsh environment..

Orbital Package
"This group of satellites and probes, to be deployed upon reaching our destination planet, includes EDWARD, a communications satellite, a solar power satellite, orbital observers, and several types of atmospheric and geologic probes."  

it seems like the colonies properly prepared this time to launch to space.. so why use the outdated tokamak if the solar power was included on teh ship, even the research for mhd would be there and resources available to build it at the beggigng of the game? Also why would they travel to a venus like planet when they were well prepared. in op2 it seemed like everything that they developped was automated so that they wouldent run out of fuel, and  the stasis preserved all the colonists wihtout reducing thier lifetimes... also thousands of planets would be checked, so im sure there would be a better choise than a venus like planet.

[lordly_dragon]

here what i say about fusion: The sun is a big fusion reactor.

how its work: with enough pressure and enough heat two H element merge into one He and thus produce massive energy
this reaction goes until no more H is avaible

so why would you botter using deuterium. you can just use simple hydrogen and this is present almost everywhere  

[dm-horus]

i like the idea of tokamaks anyway, so i say stick with them. theres no reason to change it. also, deuterium is basically useless unless fused with tritium where a large reaction is formed. 3H to 3H fusion would take more energy to sustain than is produced. since deuterium and tritium occur naturally only in very minute amounts, natural harvesting and artificial refinement would take up much more energy than a tokamak.

does anybody know if the tokamaks in op1/op2 are designed to work the same as current tokamaks?  

[Hooman]

Yeah, just stick with tokamaks.

lordly_dragon, you can't really just fuse any two hydrogen atoms. You need "heavy" hydrogen atoms for it to really work. Helium is not stable without neutrons in the nucleus. If you use regular hydrogen, the most common isotope doesn't have any neutrons in the nucleus. Thus the helium atom they might form wouldn't be stable and would just break apart, if it was ever formed at all. There won't be any energy released since you won't have transformed hydrogen into helium, or the unstable helium breaking apart would have absorbed the energy it had originally released in fusing when it breaks apart. (Which sound a little silly, so I suspect you'd just have one hell of a time trying to get a helium atom to form at all). Keep in mind that protons repel each other, and you need neutrons to help stablize the nucleus. Thus no neutrons means likely no reaction. (And if there is any wonder, Deuterium and Tritium are just "heavy" Hydrogen with either 1 or 2 neutrons in the nucleus).
 

[Betaray]

yes, what the sun does is a form of fusion called proton proton fusion, wich goes though several dozen steps, including one where anti-matter is produced and annilated

the problem is, making proton proton fusion is over a million orders of magnatude harder than making duterium tritium fusion

so chances are that we will have to rely on duterum (the reactor can bread its own tritum)

now if the BOB has water ice, than the question of fusion fuel is mute, as they would have more than enough, and if it is the correct kind of ice, it could also have pockets of He3 in it (iceatoids in the ort cloud are thought to have it) so an ice planet would be perfact for colonization

plus I think it would be funny watching lynx skid around on the ice lol

[Hooman]

plus I think it would be funny watching lynx skid around on the ice lol

Ahh, now we're talking great new features.  (thumbsup)


I'm still a little skeptical about the whole anti-matter stuff. I've never heard anything about it from a particularly reputable source. (That is, something that isn't Startrek which is known to be made up, and something that isn't from over the internet where you just have no idea where it's comming from).
 

[Betaray]

its just a step in the proton proton fusion chain, it does nothing significant, except emit a huge amount of gamarays

[Hooman]

That makes no sense to me.  

[Betaray]

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/procyc.html

note the e+ that is a positron, an anti electron, it produces gamma rays, and aparently nutrenos as well

[Hooman]

Ahh, that makes a little more sense now. Although, it doesn't much explain what happens with that e+.  

[Betaray]

isnt in obvious? within a milisecond it collides with the much more abundent ordanary matter, thus creating the gamarays and the nutrienos

[Hooman]

Umm, no. I'd say it's not entirely obvious. I mean I've never studied this stuff, and I'm not familiar with the properties of all these particles. Although, I guess the notation was meant to be suggestive. That and thinking back, this started from mention of anti-matter. But that webpage said nothing about anti-matter than I saw. How do I know if matter is converted to energy there? Maybe it just forms another neutral particle. I really don't have the details here.