Bring Eden Back For Multiplayer!

[instigator]

Hey this is to all. It seems that eden has all but lost in the multiplayer realm for early rushes. I rarely see eden in multi games anymore... but when I do they are picked out first for death. Maybe it is fear of the thor! But whatever the case may be eden needs to be given a chance.

I can only think of two ways to bring eden back:

1. MODIFY GAME PROPERTIES. I suggest changing aspects of the game on *certian maps* to give eden a chance but NOT modify the whole game. Here are some examples: Lets allow the eden's laser to get upgraded sooner. That way eden can stand a better chance in the early rush. Make stickfoam research longer because plymoth gets a second weapon way before eden does. Don't make so much ore available locally. (this one is iffy...I dont want to stop the rushes altogether)

Make it take a lot longer for eden to get thors hammer. All of eden's other units could be made/researched first. Then save the thor for the last because remember it was designed to 'end this conflict'. So that way if eden gets this technology it would be very hard to beat them.
[Do you agree? Do you disagree? Do you have an idea about this? Please post it!!!]

2. DEVELOP A NEW EDEN STRATEGY (the preferred method)
If someone chooses eden then a different approach could be taken for multiplayer. If a early rush is inevitable then eden needs to hunker down and fortify. Whatever happened to guard posts? Build Build Build I say! Why?
a.) u can build guard posts sooner than the laser lynx
b.) Laser guardposts cost 50 ore less than the lynx laser does
c.) has higher hit points and
d.) does more damage if connected to the CC.

Plus instead of using resourses on that third vehicle factory you can devote the extra ore to guard posts. That way you can start your defences earlier. Of course the lynx backup is a must. Especially for those annoying stickyfoam that shoot at the laser posts out of range. But to conclude with my second point: A base blanketed with gaurd posts doesnt look like a very appealing target to attack early on.

I would rather have the "new strategy" but is it possible to survive? What do you think?

P.S. I noticed in the online help section of this website that there were strategy guides for plymoth. What about eden? If the hunker down and fortify works could a new page be written?

[BlackBox]

As for modifying the game, this is easily done on a per-mission basis. (I've done it already). You can either set the properties in the techtree file and make it use a new techtree (the easiest way, also letting you modify the research order quite easily), or you could do a memory hack (no new techtree needed, if the unit values are all you need to change. And some unit values can't be changed thru the techtree). So this option is certainly open.

As for a strategy: I don't know if the GP thing would work, because Plymouth can get some research a lot sooner than Eden can, that makes their mics a lot more effective in combat. One research that comes to mind is Heat Dissipation Systems (it can be researched right after they get microwave weapon, one of the first researches), where for eden it's not until after you research Thors that you can get Heat Dissipation)

Also the fact that plymouth's 2nd weapon in line, stickyfoam, can be gotten a lot sooner than Eden's railgun.

Basically what I'm saying is, the plymouth player will have enough power to wipe out those guard posts and infiltrate the eden base. And on maps like pie, you don't really have all that much room to spread out and make GP's (by the time you get your 1st 'extra' one up you might have micros knocking at the front entrance anyway). Convecs don't move that fast so it's mainly erecting the GPs that takes way too long.

Also other things like, how they're 1/2 as good as they are when connected to the CC (building tubes takes too long also) and the fact that you lose money that could have been used for a VF or smelter.

At least for pie.. I think eden could do well on other maps though (even with current settings etc)

[Freeza-CII]

Using Eden and plymouth are different yes.  Eden is more of a resource hog solution use them on a map that you can get a 3 bar at the start mostly a Land Rush game.  Then all you do is get rare then thors as fast as damn possible.

[spirit1flyer]

I play Eden when I manage to get hamachi working for me  

spirit

[Mez]

eden does not need to be changed at all what so ever. it is a harder to control/ build in rush but cna be done you just need practice. this is because when you pull it off eden can be stonger over all.

i emphasise can be as it is the player not the weapons/ vechs  that makes the game!

[instigator]

I agree! I don't want to change the game. I've played more and realized that its fairer than I thought.

[Highlander]

Plymouth wins in short games (Rushes).

Eden wins when mark is above 250-300 (Depending on the player here).


Thats the way it has always been. Changing one thing only upsets the balance compared to other things.

[Sl0vi]

Plymouth wins in short games (Rushes).

Eden wins when mark is above 250-300 (Depending on the player here).


Thats the way it has always been. Changing one thing only upsets the balance compared to other things.

Exept if Plymouth got EMP missiles, then it can go and get interesting

[Leviathan]

Well this has been talked about a lot over the years and the fact is Eden lose vs Plymouth in a standard normal sized map. Because microwaves get upgraded quicker than lasers.

Ive allways though a moded version would be good. Ive alllways liked the idea of Eden having a Laser only Heat-Dis research the same time Plymouth has it. Then later another Heat-Dis research for the other weps wen it is aviable currently. This would mean lasers should be able to stand off to microwaves so the eden army will have a chanch and are able to survive the first attack.

Nice idea for a strat but it wouldnt work because lasers are not strong enough early game.

[Admiral S3]

Its true Eden, stands little chance in most rushes. Not only does the player have to know what he/she is doing, but also has all that much further to go to make anything seriously useful for eden vecs.

However... as always there is a but, its been my experiance that Eden in the hands of a well rounded player (and by this I do not means super uber player, or the best of the best, greatest of the greats, just one who knows his way around the game well enough to be called average.) can easily be a deciding victor for his/her team. Think on it this way, at the time when Eden start rolling out Tiger thors, Ply is rolling out RPG and ESG tigers. An RPG can destroy buildings, but realistically it can only destroy one tank at a time. ESGs can destroy/attack several tanks at a time, but not buildings.

Edens Thor has the best of both worlds per say. It can kill several tanks at a time, as its weapons system hits not only the target but all targets immeadiatly next to the target. IE in front, left, right and behind, plus the diaganols. Not to mention 1 thor tiger can take down a building with ease max 6 shots maybe 8 if its initial aim was way off.

Now I know someone mentioned those nifty EMP missles Ply has, but well Eden can work around those, and compairativly it costs them nothing to defend against those missles. Alittle tubing, 2 observatories, 3 maybe 4 meteor defense systems and those EMP missles now mean exactly squat. Build all you like, toss of 30 or 40 of them at the exact same target, hell toss 20 at one target and 20 at another and the missles will get knocked down every time. Each observatory can track 1 target, each defense system can fire once per second. You can only fire so many missles so fast, and as soon as the 1st missle is destroyed the 1st observatory is already locked on the next missle.

Results Eden spent, 10,000 common ore, 5k rare ore maybe, plus built one extra tokamak to provide power. Ply spent more ore then was prudent, sent off a bunch of missles that did nothing and whalaa, thier still gonna attack, or worse they realize they failed thier missle attack and wait for death. No spare ore, and eden now has lots of spare ore. Say bye bye ply.

[CK9]

eden's a land rush/resource coolony.  The people who beat me on Fractures on land rush are mostly eden users because units have to travel farther (that's why I like the map) so they have more time for emp and acid cloud research.  20 emps and 12 acid clouds together can easily take care of a defence of the same size, but you need to get them researched

[Admiral S3]

Ahhh land rushes. A man after my own heart.

[TH300]

Now I know someone mentioned those nifty EMP missles Ply has, but well Eden can work around those, and compairativly it costs them nothing to defend against those missles. Alittle tubing, 2 observatories, 3 maybe 4 meteor defense systems and those EMP missles now mean exactly squat. Build all you like, toss of 30 or 40 of them at the exact same target, hell toss 20 at one target and 20 at another and the missles will get knocked down every time. Each observatory can track 1 target, each defense system can fire once per second. You can only fire so many missles so fast, and as soon as the 1st missle is destroyed the 1st observatory is already locked on the next missle.

Results Eden spent, 10,000 common ore, 5k rare ore maybe, plus built one extra tokamak to provide power. Ply spent more ore then was prudent, sent off a bunch of missles that did nothing and whalaa, thier still gonna attack, or worse they realize they failed thier missle attack and wait for death. No spare ore, and eden now has lots of spare ore. Say bye bye ply.

Sad thing is that even if you have 4 Meteor Defenses and a missile comes in the range of all 4 only one will fire and it isn't even guarantied to hit the missile. I've tested it and it destroyed like 50% of all missiles. and no, I've waited more than one second, more than a few seconds, before sending the next missile and I had one observatory which was always operational.

[lordly_dragon]

the thing is that closer you are from the MD the more chance you can have