Balancing OP2

[Hawk]

Yeah, the game is fine like it is.  It seems to me that the old players I know of are in agreement.  I've seen edeners take center on pie and hold it.  The reason everyone likes Plymouth is so they only have to be fast.  If you rush, you have to worry less about what your opponent does, and more on what YOU are doing.  It's easier mentally.  People don't want to think their games out, they just want carnage.  Seph brought up a good point.  The Iraqi insergents "got flare?" us all the time (2 of my friends a week ago).  It's adaptation.  In a long eden vs. plymouth game you'll see about 50 tigers all huddled around a meter defense.  They don't leave because although their weapons are stronger, a well placed missle could mean 15 charred tigers.  Plus, on really long games (+3 hours), favor starts to draw back towards the Plymouth camp.

These inbalances are subtle to experienced players, but can be capatalized on.  Everyone wants to rush.  I used to rush 99% of the time.  Rushing makes eden look like suicide.  But Ron used to pull it off, even against me rushing.  All one has to do is change the way they play.

[Highlander]

Well, first of all, nice to see you back Seph. Good to see anold player come back, and give his input on the current things going on.

When we talk about balancing early games, I assume we are all thinking of Pie Chart, since that is the most played map. Some of the strats we(Me, Hawk & Seph) think about might be long forgotten, so we migth have an edge ortwo on the current players.

Here's my thinking on the subject:

As far as I can remember, I don't think I have lost a 1 vs 1 game(no mark, rushing) against a Eden player. At least not after I finished my training with Aslan(some of you might know the true identity of this player, but shh). Lets not go into tactics about how to beat a Eden player in no mark or defend as one. It is my statement here that I believe I won, if not all, most of my plymouth vs eden no mark games. That is my first arguement for for Ply > Eden rather than Ply = Eden in no mark games.

Secondly, I was among the top players back on WON(Hope I'm not bragging to much in this statement), and as far as I can remember I could give anyone a good fight by a quick rush. However to give Leviathan some credit here, he uses my tactics better than what I did and he pulls out his early vecs faster than I remember myself doing. So, basicly in any game where Lev choses to go for a rush(most of 'em), he will control the pace/direction of the game to a large extent. After getting a few severe beatings last year, I know I personally will not stand a chance as Eden vs Lev as Plymouth.

As Ron used to say; "Speed Kills" and Lev is damn fast



As for the point about Acids vs Thors, I've been trying to get people here to figure that out for some time. Acids is Edens greatest weapon, and personally, if I don't have to I rarely bother about researching Railguns.
 

[Leviathan]

As you mentioned Rondt, speed did kill him. He played with us on IRC for about 2 months, but he left after a while, mainly because;
- he didnt like geting rushed
- he thought i hacked pie to make me spawn on the bottom half of the map most of the time
It would be nice to have him playing again, but hes clearly forgoten about Outpost 2 again

Anyway, Were mainly talking about Pie yes, because that is most played, but it applys to any standard small map. If ur Plymouth and you do a early, or late rush your allways beat Eden. Like you could rush early at the start, or wait untill you get armor. But you will win. They cant slow the attack with stickys, and they cant kill your units because the firepower is too weak.

[TH300]

Sephiron, Lynx Mic's cost 750, and Lasers cost 700.

Do we have different versions of op2? I can build laser lynxes only for 750.

[Highlander]

TH300, did you check your multiplayer values there ?

[TH300]

Yes, that value is from multiplayer, Improved Pie (v1.4 I believe).

[Leviathan]

Eden simplely can not suvive in a 1v1 vs Plymouth on a standard small map (128). They stand no chanch. If you think they can you are mistaken. This is the only balancing issue i see.

And Hawk im only talking about experienced players. I mostly think of me playing myself, what would happen etc.

TH300 the map dosent matter, the ore values etc are part of the game rules set in sheets.vol which is used for all maps. Im not sure on the price of lasers, i was thinking from memory.