Author Topic: religion and such  (Read 4135 times)

Offline CK9

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« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2004, 11:43:10 AM »
I repeat:

Why should I go with a religion that used me and my kind as the symbol for all things bad and evil?


if you guys thought I was just playing around when I said I was a dragon, I have news for you:  I know I was a dragon in a past life.  I have seen memeories, and they were memories because my imagination has a much different feeling than true memorie, that have shown me the form.
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Phantom

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« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2004, 04:05:23 PM »
Quote
Why should I go with a religion that used me and my kind as the symbol for all things bad and evil?

I have no idea what religion you are talking about.
Dragons were seen in such stories as Beowulf which is in Norse mythology I believe..

Offline Arklon

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« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2004, 05:50:45 PM »
People ask about the meaning of life, how we got here, and why we are here. Religion is probably theories trying to explain some of these mysteries. I am sure mankind has asked those questions for quite some time.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2004, 05:52:20 PM by Arklon »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2004, 08:06:30 PM »
lets see:
the christian religions
many of the minor religions
...


The only religon that I know of where dragons are not depicted as evil when they are mentioned, is the religion of the Chinese
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Offline plymoth45

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« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2004, 10:42:41 AM »
lets not get that involved in this CK.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2004, 01:33:39 PM »
*pushes plym away*

No, I'm serious here.  Why should I have to conform to the teachings of a belief system that depicts the kind of my past self as the symbol of all things bad and evil?
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Phantom

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« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2004, 02:57:43 PM »
You are saying that on the basis that you believe that you were a dragon in a past life, and that dragons, in general, exist.

And I haven't seen a Christian religion that depicts dragons as evil, they don't even think they exist.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2004, 05:53:06 PM »
How about right out of the Bible?  Ever read the part about Babylon and how it was destroyed?  (I was bored)
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2004, 06:04:16 PM »
When in doubt, go with George Carlin, I've read both of his books, and his view on religion makes since (in kinda weard sort of way, but thats how it turns out when you use logic)
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2004, 06:55:02 PM »
and what does he say?
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2004, 07:00:11 PM »
go to the library and rent "Brain Droppings" and "Napalm and Silly Puddy"

I cant quote Carlin because Xfir would not approve the language lol.
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2004, 07:01:22 PM »
you can PM it to me (I have no transportation for a while, and I'm still only on my permit)
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2004, 07:05:08 PM »
well its writtian in the book and its a couple hundred chapters, and I dont know hoe much longer my dad will let me on, so sry
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Offline Luweeg64

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« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2004, 05:13:26 AM »
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Tell me this: if you cannot prove his existance, then how do you know he does exist?

I feel there is a highere existance, just not a god
Well, we can't be sure because if there is a god ( i think there is) he wouldn't have left any proof. This is because faith is exactly that, faith, and whenever you have evidence your not beleiveing, your knowing. But how in the world do you explain how this planet got so lucky, just the right size, right distance, right temperature, it has to be a act of god.  OR just the very existence of life itself, i'm not talking about multi-celled organisms, but the first ones, why did the single celled organisms appear in the first place.  And that's why there's Darwins Theory, so those that can't or won't beleive, have something to beleive in.

Offline Luweeg64

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« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2004, 05:23:01 AM »
Quote
I repeat:

Why should I go with a religion that used me and my kind as the symbol for all things bad and evil?


if you guys thought I was just playing around when I said I was a dragon, I have news for you:  I know I was a dragon in a past life.  I have seen memeories, and they were memories because my imagination has a much different feeling than true memorie, that have shown me the form.
Now I'll call upon my Dad's psychiatriac knowledge, first have you ever used drugs in your life. Because if not I beleive your schizophrenic.  If you do not know what schizophrenic is it is when your mind fabricates stories, or events, or people or memories.  These people will talk to things, see things, and listen to things that aren't there and that don't exist.

And if your not,  where is the proof that dragons existed??? Even If Sir Galahad killed the last dragon and burned his body, the bones would have still exixted, and with all the construction in the last 100 years, remains would surley have been found.  And don't tell me that they have been mistaken for a dinosaur, because any 3rd grader can tell you the difference between a dragon and a dinosaur. And if you do still beleive that dragons exist, well tell me when Elvis gets back from his tour of the galaxy with the aliens that crash landed at Roswell, trying to pick up their stranded friend Bigfoot.

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« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2004, 11:26:59 AM »
Man, I don't know if I could add to that, that pretty much sums it up.

Dragons are a made-up mythological creature, and only that. So it is not a crime to label a mythological creature as "evil"

And as for babylon, the "Dragon" is another name for Satan, he is also called snake, wyrm, serpent, etc.

So pretty much, people in medival times made up an idea in their heads of what a "Dragon" could look like. Satan is the only reffered "Dragon" in existence, there was never a speicie on this planet.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2004, 12:29:27 PM »
Luweeg and Phantom, the two I never would have expected to disrespect the beliefs ofothers.  I can respect that you believe in God, it makes you feel good.  There is no complete proof that Dragons don't, have never existed:

Fact: there are millions of planets in the universe
Fact: much of the earth's crust is un-excavated
Fact: I am not a schitzo (I was actually found of 'sound' mind, lol)

BTW, this is from the link Ark provided:



Signs that the bible was not divinely inspired
If you've read all of the above, it should be pretty obvious (I hope) that the bible is not the word of god, or at least not the word of any god worth worshipping. It seems obvious that the bible is a collection of folklore, tall stories, and fairy tales handed down from generation to generation, blown way out of proportion along the way. Some parts of the bible reveal the ignorance of mankind at the time it was written. For example:
According to Nahum 1:3, clouds are actually not particles of water vapour in the atmosphere, they are dust kicked up by god's footprints.
According to Job 37:2-3, thunder is not the rapid expansion of air caused by the intense heat of a lightning bolt, but the voice of god.
According to Jeremiah 30:23, a tornado is not the product of a large weather system, but a weapon god uses to kill those who sin.
According to Isaiah 13:13 and Psalms 18:7, earthquakes are not the result of tectonic plate activity, but a weapon god uses against sinners when he is really pissed off.
According to Hosea 13:15 and Psalms 107:33-34, a river drying up is not the result of a dry season, but a sign that people near the river must have sinned.
Likewise, according to Deuteronomy 28:22-24, drought is god's reaction to sinners living in the area.
Other parts of the bible are just too stupid to have been divinely inspired, and almost certainly indicate the views of the (very human) author(s):
According to Genesis 9:13-15, rainbows are god's way of reminding himself not to brutally slaughter everyone on earth again. (Kind of like the cosmic equivalent of tying a string around your finger, every time you look at it you say, "oh, yeah, I'm NOT supposed to drown almost every living thing on the planet!") One question - why would god need to be reminded of anything?
According to 1 Timothy 4:1-3 and Romans 14:2, vegetarians are weak-minded heathens who must worship other gods.
According to Judges 1:19, an army under god's direct command can be defeated by a group of iron chariots. Can you imagine god trying to justify this? "Well, I know I created the universe and all that, but come on, they have IRON chariots! Chariots made of actual IRON! I can't beat that!"
According to Acts 5:1-10, people who fail to give all their money to god shall be struck dead. Now this is just silly. What's god going to do with money? This must be the biblical equivalent of those annoying television evangelists: "please, send us money so we can spread the word of god..."
According to Leviticus 19:1, farmers who plant two kinds of seed in a single field anger god. Also, people who wear clothing made from more than one kind of material anger god. Why would god care what we wear?
According to Deuteronomy 23:12-14, if you need to go to the bathroom, you should go outside the city, dig a hole, do your business, cover it up, and return to the city. Failure to do so will cause god to turn away from you. Hey god, if you find human waste offensive, why did you make us this way? Come to think of it, how could god find anything offensive?
Still other parts of the bible seem to have been inserted by governments or ruling parties - they seem designed to maintain control over all christians. Look at some examples:
According to Romans 13:1-4 and Peter 2:13-14, you must obey the local goverment at all times, since they were placed there by god. Apparently, god hates rebellions. Riiiiight.
According to Colossians 2:8, god doesn't want you to learn things outside the church. Riiiight
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2004, 12:32:35 PM »
ooh, and here's the next section, just love it, lol

Ten commandments? Which ten commandments?
Christians are quick to condemn others, especially atheists, for their lack of moral and ethical integrity. I've even heard some Christians claim that it is impossible to have any ethics at all without religion. However, what is the Christian moral code? Is there a list of rules by which god has commanded Christians to live by? Yes, the bible tells us a story of how god once handed down ten commandments for his people to live by. However, the vast majority of Christians, as usual, have not bothered to read this story for themselves, instead blindly believing whatever they are told. The odd truth of the matter is that god actually handed down twenty commandments, not ten, and most churches, for some reason, completely ignore the last ten commandments handed down by god (probably because most of them make no sense in the modern world compared to the first ten).
Our story begins in Exodus 19. There was a guy named Moses, who was the current leader of the Israelites. Moses went up Mount Sinai to talk to god. The mountain shook, there was smoke, and trumpets, and god spoke! (Why does this never happen anymore? Hmmm). Anyway, god gives moses two stone slabs with the infamous ten commandments written on them. They are:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy god in vain.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Thou shalt honour thy father and thy mother.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house or wife.
Now, for most Christians the story ends right there. However, the bible has a way of not knowing when to stop, and true to form, this story continues on. It seems that Moses, the klutz, ends up breaking the stone tablets that god gave him. No problem, in Exodus 34 god tells moses to carve out two new, blank stone tablets so that god could again carve the ten commandments onto them. Here's the catch - this second set of ten commandments doesn't even remotely resemble the first set. Here's the second set of ten commandments:
Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee: but ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves.
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
The first of the firstfruits of they land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
So what happened here? Specifically, what happened to "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not commit adultery"? I mean, the first ten were clear, concise, and to the point. This set of ten commandments isn't nearly as catchy nor as quotable. Any guesses as to what significance "thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk" might have in today's world? If you guessed "none at all", you'd be pretty close to the truth.
How is it that the bible can contradict itself in so few pages? In Exodus 20, we receive a set of commandments from god dictating how we are to live. In Exodus 34, we receive an entirely new set of commandments. So which set is correct? Let's walk through the possibilities.

Possible explanation #1: The first set is correct - let's say the first set of ten commandments is the "real" set of ten commandments. This theory is supported by the fact that pretty much every Christian church in existence today only quotes from this set of ten commandments. If this theory is correct, why then did god give moses ten essentially useless commandments as replacements when moses broke the tablets containing the first set? Did god make a mistake? If so, how is that possible? Was god playing a trick on his people, kind of like an april fool's joke? If so, why? And why did he never rescind these commandments? Or did Satan fool moses into thinking that this second set actually came from god? If so, how? Or did whoever wrote the bible make a mistake, writing down nonsense in Exodus 34 instead of the real ten commandments? If so, why did god allow such a glaring error to be entered into his holy book? We aren't talking about a minor typographical error here, this is a fundamental core concept of Christianity.

Possible explanation #2: The second set is correct - let's say the second set of ten commandments is the "real" set of ten commandments. If this theory is correct, why does the Christian church not acknowledge this fact today? No Christian ever seems to quote "the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb", but how many times have Christians screamed "thou shalt not kill" while gunning down abortion doctors? Further, if this theory is correct, why does Exodus 20 contain such a glaring error? This book is supposed to be the word of god, so where did those first, incorrect, ten commandments come from? Satan? Or did god make a mistake? If so, how is that possible?

Possible explanation #3: Both sets are correct - let's say that the Christian church is wrong, and that there are actually twenty commandments. If so, why did god originally only give moses ten? Why does the church not acknowledge the second set? And why is it that so few Christians are even aware of this glaring problem in the bible?

But let's ignore that glaring discrepancy (as the church seems to have decided to do). Take a look at the first set of ten commandments, the set that most Christians claim to live by. Are these useful? At all? The first four are merely instruction on how we are supposed to worship god. How does this make life better for anyone? The last six are too vague to be of any real value. Thou shalt not kill. Does that include abortion or not? Even Christians can't agree on that. Is killing in self defense okay, or is that also forbidden? How about people in the line of duty, like police officers or soldiers, can they kill to defend themselves or others? Is it okay to kill someone if they want to die? Assisted suicide, euthanasia, does this count as killing? Those four simple words are far too vague to answer any of these questions. Let's try another. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife or possessions. What's wrong with coveting? If my neighbor has a really nice car, am I not allowed to feel jealous? Why not? Do I injure my neighbor by feeling jealous? Do I injure myself by feeling jealous? What if my desire for my neighbor's car causes me to work really hard so that one day I can buy one for myself, is that wrong? To suggest that the ten commandments represent the epitome of moral values is ridiculous. Anyone could draft up an arbitrary set of commandments that would be more useful than that, try these out:

Thou shalt not kill someone who does not wish to die, unless you are defending your life or the lives of others. Women who conceive a child that they do not want or can not support may violate this commandment so long as they do it before the child is born. Otherwise, consider adoption.
Thou shalt not take something that doesn't belong to you without first paying for it, then thanking the person you are buying it from.
Thou may worship whatever god or gods you please, in whatever manner you please, so long as you do not attempt to force your religion on others against their will. Or, if thou pleasest, thou may worship no god at all.
Thou shall try to show respect for people in positions of authority over thyself. If thou canst, thou shall at least try to be civil.
Thou may have sex with whomsoever thou pleasest, in whatever manner thou pleasest, so long as the other person(s) are willing participants. If thou canst not procure thyself a mate, thou may pay for one at the brothel of thy choice. However, thou shalt not bring a child into the world unless thou are certain thou can support it and love it.
If thou must get drunk, thou shall do it in a safe manner, and in a safe place, where none will be offended or injured by thy drunkenness.
Thou shall try not to be an asshole.
I could go on, but it's a fairly useless exercise. The notion that it's even possible to draft up a short list of morals that will govern how people live their lives is naive. The church claims that their vaunted ten commandments, plus their "golden rule" (interesting that their golden rule isn't included in their ten commandments) are all you need to live life ethically. What a joke.  
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2004, 02:08:38 PM »
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Fact: there are millions of planets in the universe

Incorrect, this solar system has 8-10 planets (depending if you count pluto and sedna)
Overall you could say each solar system has 4-5 planets. (overestimate underestimate i dunno)

Beyond our solar system there are other solar systems among other Alpha Centauri (4.3-4.4 light years from here) Alpha Centauri is believed (theory) to have one planet that could support life. They have also seen planets where oxygen is streaming from and other tests have shown that water isnt very uncommon in solarsystems.
(water eats certain spectras therefore you can with a mediocre accuracy predict that there are planets with possible water in solar systems)

To get back on the point, if we zoom out alot we get to see the beginning of the "milky way" and the spiral arm we are part of. That single part of the spiral arm consists of billions of solarsystems. That the entire milky way it becomes a lot of solar system with a medium of 4-5 planets. And then if we zoom out even more we will begin to see other "spirals" or discs, if we go even longer these spirals will also begin to form a bigger pattern of its own. This final pattern is formed like a shockwave that is growing. In other words the "universe"

So we have 4-5 planets per solarsystem, which is within a spiral arm consisting of billions of solarsystems which are within a spiral which has several "arms" and the spirals are part of the ever expanding universe. So we have something near infinity multiplied by a billion multiplied by a billion billions multiplied by 4-5.

Counting that there may be one habitable planet in one billion planets (very small amount, there are probably more habitable planets in this number) there are still a pretty big amount of habitable planets out there and perhaps alot of lifeforms.

Take this times for example "the quantum foam" that speaks of the "ovals" A Universe like ours is just a small part of the big picture.

This should correct both CK's understatement *gleee*  ^_^ and stick a hole within luweegs "But how in the world do you explain how this planet got so lucky, just the right size, right distance, right temperature, it has to be a act of god. OR just the very existence of life itself, i'm not talking about multi-celled organisms, but the first ones, why did the single celled organisms appear in the first place." balloon.

It's like lottery, the chance is very small. But it does happen. And with so many planets the chances are incredibly good :) In other words, it is rather an impossibility that there would be no other habitable planets.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2004, 02:12:24 PM by Zircon »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2004, 02:20:54 PM »
wrong, Z, new galaxies are created each day, and along with them come planents in the solar systems.
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2004, 03:14:28 PM »
I only said it in a jokingly manner, it all depends upon how deep you want to go :blush:

I see it more like resetting something, because as the rule goes you cant create something out of nothing.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2004, 03:15:50 PM by Zircon »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2004, 03:16:11 PM »
that...didn't...sound right
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2004, 03:19:30 PM »
*looks around*
You lost me...  :mellow:

This universe has since long stopped it's "building" period, it still expands though. And nothing stops the cycle within that creates new suns etc, an old sun throws off matter, the matter compresses and starts the process anew...

With jokingly i meant, not like criticising "just a million planets" just that there are a lot more...

------------

Self realisation: I make no sense (as usual) am i *sob*
« Last Edit: May 31, 2004, 03:35:46 PM by Zircon »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2004, 03:42:26 PM »
"it all depends upon how deep you want to go" just doesn't sound right (I got to stop hanging around my friends...)
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2004, 04:09:22 PM »
we go from quoting the bible at great length, to thinking immuture thoughts about a veague expression

wow, we are a very versitle race
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode