Author Topic: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki  (Read 887 times)

Offline Vagabond

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Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« on: October 06, 2016, 12:20:03 AM »
Hey everyone,

What is the plan with the Outpost 2 Wiki? I think the official Outpost 2 wiki has been down since Early February due to the spamming problem. I am using the new doku wiki a lot that is not contained on the Outpost2.net domain (http://wiki.outpostuniverse.org/doku.php). It has matured in many ways past the original wiki.

Is there a plan to adopt this wiki as the new 'official' one, or are we planning to restore the older wiki?

I have plans to continue working on the Outpost 2 SDK (or API, not sure which we are calling it officially?). Particularly adding some dedicated pages on using Tortoise SVN. I'd like to list out how to ignore certain user files that Visual Studio projects create to keep them out of the repository. I'd also like to continue refining the Outpost 2 scenario project settings pages. The pages on using the SVN should probably be separated out from the rest of the Outpost 2 scenario pages as they are useful for any part of the repository, not just making a new scenario.

Anyways, what I'm saying is that I don't want to pour work into a wiki that we never adopt.

If we do switch the wiki over to the Outpost 2 domain, it will create a fair amount of dead forum links. If the doku wiki's URL is changed, I would be willing to run through all of the posts I've made referencing it and fix the links. Of course, this problem will continue to worsen the longer it is left on a different URL. I guess we could also just leave it on the other domain as well, although I think uniformity would be better.

There are still a couple of articles on the older wiki that we didn't have time to transfer to the doku wiki before it was pulled down. Particularly the pages on Outpost 2 tiles/map maker guts seemed really well written. If someone wants to fish the associated text/images from these pages out of the old wiki, I would be willing to reformat them on the doku wiki.

Offline Hooman

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2016, 08:05:09 AM »
I believe general sentiment is to adopt the new wiki. I'm not aware of any official plan of action.

Your comment about the domain split is valid. That can create work to rename later. I suppose it could be done automatically, using some kind of search and replace tool for the forum. I have no idea how though.

I suppose a temporary solution would be if someone could configure a sub-domain of outpost2.net that pointed to the server with the new wiki. That would allow for stable links to the new wiki content. In the event the content is migrated to the same server as the forums, or any other server, the IP for the sub-domain could simply be updated.


There has been some discussion of converting the SVN repository to Git repositories, as well as using external hosting such as GitLab, and possibly a GitHub mirror. There is some movement on this front. There would of course be some restrictions due to copyright issues. I don't think hosting the game download project publicly on an external site would go over well. The SDK and level projects should be no issue. Just so you know, since that might affect where you spend your time.

Offline leeor_net

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2016, 02:38:57 PM »
I'm working on it as we speak, actually. Probably going to take a few days but, at least for me, the plan is to integrate the wiki with Outpost2.net. I originally had asked Lev to set up a dokuwiki installation so we could demonstrate how and what the wiki could/should look like and we've successfully done that, so much so that the new wiki is superior in many ways to the old one (NICE WORK GUYS! And thanks so much for all your efforts!)

So I'll keep you posted. I hope to have the migration done in the next couple of days. I can also help to update links as necessary.
- Leeor
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Offline Vagabond

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2016, 03:17:13 PM »
Thanks Hooman & leeor_net,

I was just getting comfortable with subversion and now we are changing! I have actually been very happy with Subversion, especially since we are not really working concurrently on the same parts of the repository. Since we may be switching to Git, I'll plan to write the info on the repository generically to apply to either. I have only used Git for a couple of hours, so it will be pretty new to me if we switch to it.

Leeor, I'm planning to write some on the doku wiki Friday/this weekend. Please let me know if I need to stop at some point for the migration.

Offline Arklon

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2016, 03:22:56 PM »
GitHub has a good git tutorial that won't take you very long to go through: https://try.github.io/
You can also look at the official user manual: https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html

Offline leeor_net

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2016, 04:14:17 PM »
Don't worry too much about the migration -- I'll send you a PM when I'm ready to start moving things around. The good thing about DokuWiki is that it's very simple to migrate.

As for Git vs. SVN, it's very similar. The biggest difference that really matters to the end user is that there's an intermediary 'staging' before you push changes to the server. Basically, you commit changes to the staging area and then push those changes to the server. So you can make a number of commits on your local repository and then push all of those commits in one shot to the server.

Subversion is great -- I love it. It's a work horse and it serves us well. But Git, I hate to admit, is better in so many ways.

For Windows users there is TortoiseGit which works very much like TortoiseSVN so it wouldn't take long to get used to it. I've been griping about it awhile myself so I understand the hesitation but it's really similar enough to the point that it took me only a few minutes to kind of 'get it'.

Will assist with the transitions as we move forward with the updates.
- Leeor
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Offline Hooman

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2016, 06:21:29 AM »
Thank you leeor_net for handling things with the wiki.

The links Arklon gave are excellent. I've gone through both of those resources myself. The interactive tutorial in particular is good.

If you want more practice like that interactive tutorial in the first link, you can also try the Code School Git path, and the Code Cademy Git course.

Aside: For more advanced users, if you really want to understand internals of how Git works (which helps you reason about the system), the section "Hacking Git" near the end of Arklon's second link is great. :) You don't need that starting out though. Just saying it was lovely.

Quote
The biggest difference that really matters to the end user is that there's an intermediary 'staging' before you push changes to the server. Basically, you commit changes to the staging area and then push those changes to the server. So you can make a number of commits on your local repository and then push all of those commits in one shot to the server.

Slight technical clarification here in regards to the staging area. You commit from the staging area. Git has a staging area to prepare a commit before the commit is created. Once the commit is created, it exists in the local repository, which can then be pushed to a remote repository. The working directory, the staging area, the local commit in the local repository, and the remote repository are all separate areas.

The staging area comes in handy when you're in the middle of some work, and notice something unrelated that needs to be fixed, such as a typo in a comment. This happens to me all the time! If you don't fix the typo right away, you forget about it, and it doesn't get fixed. If you fix it right away and continue your work, you forget about it and commit the change as an unrelated part of your work. This is bad practice, and also annoying if you ever want to undo a change and haven't separated out unrelated change sets. Instead, Git allows you to stage just some of your changes, such as the comment fix, without undoing any of your work, even if it's in the same file, and create a commit for just a portion of what you're doing. There's even support for choosing specific lines from a changed file. With SVN, I found myself manually creating backup files, reverting changes, making a small fix, committing it, and restoring my manually created backups. It was a pain.

I think the biggest difference (which you were really trying to get at) is that Git working copies are a full clone of the entire repository, whereas SVN working copies will clone just the most recent revision. That has a number of implications, particularly concerning speed of some operations (such as those touching history), possible workflows, and backups. Just try looking at the SVN log, or a blame to see when a line was changed. If you have no internet connectivity, or if you connect to a slow remote server (or one with an SSL certificate issue, god forbid, and not to name any names), this can get quite painful.

But here I am getting off topic.

Offline leeor_net

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 12:39:31 PM »
The wiki migration is now complete. All information as of this morning from http://wiki.outpostuniverse.org has been fully moved to http://wiki.outpost2.net/.

Links can now be updated. User authentication information is the same as it was.
- Leeor
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Offline Hooman

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2016, 01:03:45 PM »
Wow. Thank you for dealing with this leeor_net. And thank you to Leviathan for hosting the new wiki during its incubation phase.

Offline leeor_net

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2016, 02:25:47 PM »
Took a few minutes to modify links to the original wiki project URI to the new one. Should be good to go.
- Leeor
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Offline Drakmar

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Re: Status of official Outpost 2 Wiki
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2016, 06:35:22 PM »
First time I've taken a look at it in a while. Looking pretty nice! Loving the icon at the top as well. Really gives it a nice modern touch. ;)