Author Topic: Game Over conditions  (Read 548 times)

Offline leeor_net

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Game Over conditions
« on: September 18, 2016, 07:55:46 PM »
So this is something I hand't considered much up until about this point... game over conditions.

The first and most obvious is a dead population. If your population dies out... you're done.

Another I can think of is being replaced if morale remains low for an extended period of time.

Any other game over conditions?

Keep in mind I'm not doing the rebel colony thing with this... not like the original game anyway, perhaps in the future it can be added as a case of low morale going on for awhile and part of the population up and leaves with resources but that's for a different topic.

Offline Hooman

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2016, 10:08:24 PM »
In regards to being replaced for extended periods of low morale, you should totally include an image of Donald Trump telling the player "You're fired".

Does the game have any victory condition? That's technically game over.

Offline Vagabond

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 03:42:22 AM »
The colony might be lost if there are not enough minerals/resources to support making it to an end game condition like spacecraft launch. This is kind of tough to track though, since the colony could use the recycling centers, or already have enough buildings and momentum to complete an end game objective like terraforming even after mines are exhausted. Also tough to track if they can reclaim old buildings in a pinch.

Offline gubid

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2016, 05:35:57 AM »
I don't think I would.  I think they're stuff with YOU as a player until the end.  That said, I would think that periods of low morale would cause riots and require police activities.  If you don't have the requirements in place to keep it under control, they will destroy buildings and possibly make the problem much worse.  Thus making population loss a thing.  Things could be utilized to rapidly improve morale in a pinch for getting that building put in place to smooth things out.  The StrongHold games would allow you to overfeed the people to get a boost in morale.  I cannot think of any other scenario's in which you would be removed.  Not to say there shouldn't be though.

Offline lordpalandus

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 10:08:52 AM »
Possibles that come to my mind:

1. Revolts resulting in workers refusing to work effectively reducing workforce size and raising unemployment.

2. Cults form and mass suicide pacts are made believing that in death they will have a better life than they currently have.

3. Researchers or workers make a catastrophic mistake due to extreme personal depression which results in the structure worked at exploding violently killing all present.

4. The police go on strike and refuse to stop crime and crime skyrockets and gets out of control.

Probably could go on but it depends on if you want a simple solution or a more complex one. Could like civilization have a maximum turns that the game can reach.
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Offline Sirbomber

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 07:18:28 PM »
In terms of the original game, the only way for the game to end was everyone dying, or launching the new starship (tangentially related to this, I would like to propose the ability to construct smaller-scale spacecraft to colonize and trade with the other planets in your star system, but that is of course at your discretion).  I don't think you need another way to get a game over; you can't really lose harder than the human race dying out because of your own ineptitude.  Instead of figuring out different ways to lose, I was thinking you should actually consider introducing additional ways to win.  I can think of a few (starship, terraform, post-humanism maybe?) but the problem is those are all variants on a technology victory.  But in a single player game, it's not like you have many other options.  No enemy cultures to dominate or economies to buy out.  Regardless, I would also suggest not making winning the game also end the game (or at least allow the game to continue afterwards if the player so chooses).
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Offline lordpalandus

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2016, 10:19:28 PM »
I can think of worse things that merely having the human race die out... like a group of merciless reavers (firefly reavers) that instead of killing you, leave you alive after they've skinned you alive and raped you. Or being turned into Borg. Also, isn't post-humanism, usually another way of killing the human race off? (by post-humanism I'm assuming like transcedance to pure energy beings or giving all people a purely robotic body free of the bounds of fleshy existence)

What about these extra victory conditions?
- Making a brand new colony on the same planet (Expansion Victory)
- Creating a permanent utopian existence (Social Victory)
- Creating a borehole (Mining Victory)


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Offline leeor_net

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 08:26:29 AM »
In regards to being replaced for extended periods of low morale, you should totally include an image of Donald Trump telling the player "You're fired".

Hahhhhh... I like it!

Does the game have any victory condition? That's technically game over.

Good point. In this case I'm thinking strictly in terms of losing. I imagined this as a 'software toy' much like SimCity where it just keeps going. Then again, mines are a limited resource so going on forever is impossible.

The colony might be lost if there are not enough minerals/resources to support making it to an end game condition like spacecraft launch. This is kind of tough to track though, since the colony could use the recycling centers, or already have enough buildings and momentum to complete an end game objective like terraforming even after mines are exhausted. Also tough to track if they can reclaim old buildings in a pinch.

Good point also, although in these cases after all mines are exhausted and all resources consumed, the colony's structures would begin to shut down leading to colony collapse leading to death of the human population.

Demolishing buildings returns 90% of the resources used to construct the structure so this is also a possibility.

I don't think I would.  I think they're stuff with YOU as a player until the end.  That said, I would think that periods of low morale would cause riots and require police activities.  If you don't have the requirements in place to keep it under control, they will destroy buildings and possibly make the problem much worse.  Thus making population loss a thing.

Hmm. I like this, never thought of that. Still though, I've played a few games where if you demonstrate your inept and the population doesn't like you, they replace you with someone else (e.g., Tropico 5).

I like the rioting idea. Would make the police structures more effective than they were in the original game and would also mean that lawbots would also be much more useful.

I don't think you need another way to get a game over; you can't really lose harder than the human race dying out because of your own ineptitude.

Fair point.

(tangentially related to this, I would like to propose the ability to construct smaller-scale spacecraft to colonize and trade with the other planets in your star system, but that is of course at your discretion).

I had considered this as well but it would be an incremental build after the initial version is considered 'finished', bugs squashed and some code refactoring has gone on. Can toss that in with additional planet type and multiplayer as well but again, all future developments, something I'd want to work on after the core game is finished.

I can think of worse things that merely having the human race die out... like a group of merciless reavers (firefly reavers) that instead of killing you, leave you alive after they've skinned you alive and raped you. Or being turned into Borg. Also, isn't post-humanism, usually another way of killing the human race off? (by post-humanism I'm assuming like transcedance to pure energy beings or giving all people a purely robotic body free of the bounds of fleshy existence)

Going to stick with a basis in reality. As fun as these may be I don't think they really fit into world of Outpost. Borg kind of could with nano technology (nano bots moving around inside of human bodies to keep them healthy? Sounds like the beginning of a borg assimilation technology).

What about these extra victory conditions?
- Making a brand new colony on the same planet (Expansion Victory)
- Creating a permanent utopian existence (Social Victory)
- Creating a borehole (Mining Victory)

When I first started developing the game I thought to myself "Eh, forget about multiple colonies". As I've gotten further into development, multiple colonies seems like a great idea. As much as the code is centered around a single colony, adding extras shouldn't be too hard though it would require some refactoring and extra support code. I'll leave this as an 'expansion' idea.

Utopian victory is interesting but I'm not sure how one would achieve this... highest morale for an extended period? Specific research requirements met? No crime? Combination of all of this?

Can you elaborate more on the borehole? I'm not sure what you mean here.

Offline lordpalandus

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 11:34:45 PM »
True on reavers and borg being unrealistic. But imagined being perpetually nagged by the opposite sex to the point of getting nothing worthwhile done. Wouldn't that be almost as bad? (lol)

Utopia could be achieved by a combination of all these at the same time: (and thus would take a lot of effort and planning on the player's part to achieve them)
- Negligible crime (ie 10% or less) for several turns (ie say negligible crime for 5 turns)
- Sustained high morale for several turns (ie say 90%+ for 5 turns)
- Surpluses of all morale effectors for several turns (ie residence, agridome, medical center, etc for 5 turns)
Thus, if you managed all three conditions for a period of time, you could win with an Utopia Victory.

Boreholes are basically a really big and deep hole in the ground that digs through the "Crust" and taps into the "Mantle" to provide basically an unlimited source of metals. I believe Russia is in the process of developing one and they were a late-game terraforming option in Alpha Centauri. I know that you create tunnels in Outpost 1, and thus you could attain this victory if you say managed to dig 50 levels straight down. The obvious difficulties with this victory option is its costly materials wise to dig that deep, and you may have to deal with earthquakes, gas pockets, or lava pockets. Thus, it would make sense to me to add that as an alternative victory condition, and would simply revolve around digging a deep tunnel.
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Offline Hooman

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2016, 01:24:55 AM »
For post-humanism, I long thought of AI controlled bots that would carry on the essence of humanity, building, surviving, and expanding into the distant reaches of the universe. Perhaps even carrying a data bank and possibly a gene bank as a way of remembering the human race that created them. Not entirely unlike the Voyager probe, and it's record of human sounds, greetings, scientific data, and images. If the AI was advanced enough, it could even be programmed with the goal of planting a new seed on a distant planet. Humans could have gone extinct for countless ages, and then be revived on a distant planet by AI controlled bots and a gene bank.

Also, it's occurred to me that freezing people for long space flights, and not killing them in the process, is a real problem. Plus, colony ships are always portrayed as being very large. Might be easier to build just a small fast probe with some builder bots, or some kind of advanced Mars rover, and a few fertilized eggs. It's probably easier to build an artificial womb than to freeze and then revive fully grown people. Fertilized eggs would also take up a whole lot less space and weight on a spacecraft. I suspect that's a more feasible way to colonize a planet in another solar system.

But I'm getting off topic.

Offline leeor_net

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 04:02:51 PM »
...But imagined being perpetually nagged by the opposite sex to the point of getting nothing worthwhile done. Wouldn't that be almost as bad? (lol)

Not a problem for some of the population so eh.


Utopia could be achieved by a combination of all these at the same time: (and thus would take a lot of effort and planning on the player's part to achieve them)
- Negligible crime (ie 10% or less) for several turns (ie say negligible crime for 5 turns)
- Sustained high morale for several turns (ie say 90%+ for 5 turns)
- Surpluses of all morale effectors for several turns (ie residence, agridome, medical center, etc for 5 turns)
Thus, if you managed all three conditions for a period of time, you could win with an Utopia Victory.

Makes sense. Though I would have it be fore more than 5 turns. 5 Turns is easy. 50 turns is not so easy.


Boreholes are basically a really big and deep hole in the ground that digs through the "Crust" and taps into the "Mantle" to provide basically an unlimited source of metals. I believe Russia is in the process of developing one and they were a late-game terraforming option in Alpha Centauri. I know that you create tunnels in Outpost 1, and thus you could attain this victory if you say managed to dig 50 levels straight down. The obvious difficulties with this victory option is its costly materials wise to dig that deep, and you may have to deal with earthquakes, gas pockets, or lava pockets. Thus, it would make sense to me to add that as an alternative victory condition, and would simply revolve around digging a deep tunnel.

I like this idea but it would only make sense on certain planets with particular conditions. E.g., a small planet with the formation history of Jupiter's moon Callisto would be impossible to make this sort of technology possible. Because of a lack of differentiation (separation of materials like iron, silicates, etc.) and a sub-surface ocean some 100KM down, it would be impossible to dig into a mantle that doesn't exist. You could get away with 'tapping the core' but the core on Callisto is thought to be made of silicates... so basically non metal rocks and glass.

Ganymede would be more likely as hit has a liquid iron core BUT it too has a subsurface ocean which would make drilling into the core impossible (flooded shafts).

A Mercury type planet would make sense for this -- it has a rocky core, no subsurface ocean and it's mantle is roughly 70% metallic materials. A lot of potential mining to be had here.

One of the difficulties, however, is in the way the mines work. I modeled it after Outpost 1 where different planets had a maximum digging depth. These were between 1 and 4 levels. 4 Levels down is roughly 400 feet beneath the surface so... really not that far. This is done mostly as a difficulty setting. A borehole victory, then, would require the correct planet type and the right research into the technology to develop such a structure that could then process mantle type materials. This could lead to potential disaster scenarios though -- Mantle's are generally not molten but liquid rock, e.g. magma, could end up seeping or 'exploding' through a borehole. I'm not a geophysicist so this could be completely out of touch with reality. Still... I like this potential victory condition though as stated, this would only be effective on some planet types.

Offline Goof

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Re: Game Over conditions
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2016, 02:42:40 AM »
For the mine depletion issue, in the manual of the game there was a mention to other robots
Roboexplorer, Repairbot and Humanoid Worker

Quote
Roboexplorer: Explorer robots investigate potential mining sites identified from the starship. The starship locates a large portion of a planet`s potential mine sites; the geological penetrator probes discover more potential mine sites; and the hardest mine sites to locate can be discovered by explorer robots. Explorer robots will also mark any potential mining locations with a red dot. The number of turns required to locate new mines varies by mine prevalence on your chosen planet. Explorer robots perform their function automatically. On the easy difficulty level, ten explorers are sufficient to discover the remaining mine sites.

Repairbot: If there is an existing supply of spare robot parts, repairbots can fix broken robots. Repairbots are generated through research into robotics.

Humanoid Worker: Performs labor so that a human can be reassigned to a scientific research job if one is available. Humanoid workers are generated through research into robotics.  Humanoid robot workers will show up in the population report once they are available through research and built in a surface factory.

Humanoid robot workers increase the morale level. Your population is composed mostly of scientists, and they feel they are overqualified for factory work. They want to work in research labs, but someone must work in the factories. If you can provide robot workers for factories, freeing the colonists to work in research facilities, you`ll impact morale in a positive way.