Poll

your vote

yes we should go to both
22 (91.7%)
just the moon
1 (4.2%)
just Mars
1 (4.2%)
neather, we dont need to spend money for space
0 (0%)
no idea
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Author Topic: should we go to back to the moon,  (Read 3006 times)

Offline Zircon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2004, 11:43:08 PM »
Background radiation is too small, it would take a lot of time to move even the smallest amount, beta (electrons) particles are nearly the same.

The only other thing i'd  imagine being able to move something is a very strong beam of alpha (helium nuclei) particles...

And where would would the magnetosphere come from as a solar sail is in simple terms just a really big mirror?

Background radiation also comes from nebulas, dying black holes etc etc...

Even when you're close to the sun and the sheer amount of photons that is being projected against the sail the acceleration is unnervingly low... But fortunate as it is the acceleration constantly builds up ^_^

If you visit http://solarsail.org/ and then visit the science section it should explain atleast the kind of solar sail im talking about...
-----------

That reminds me, the Conestoga had several notes about the magnetic dispersion field meant to protect those inside, gigantic coils generated those fields though...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2004, 06:45:09 AM by Zircon »

Offline Ezekel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
    • http://ezekel.deviantart.com
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2004, 07:44:18 AM »
solarwind ^^ love that game


mrr, why must the cone be pointed away from the sun?
solar sails can be used like boat sails, the advantage being though that the "wind" will be coming from a constant direction
My mind is quicker then your eyes!

Never fight what you cannot see!!!

----------------------------------------------

The sleeper has awakened... and boy what a hangover!

Offline Betaray

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2902
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2004, 04:21:34 PM »
have you herd of mini black holes? they theroticly the size of a proton and have a gravity well not much bigger

now I have thought, if you could atrifually make those mini black holes, possibly by having 2 protons decay from an energy state (a thery of mine) if would form a black hole that has very little mass, but is infonatly dence

now if you could form those blackholes into a series of rings that have trillions of blackholes a square micrometer, than their combined gravity wells would make the ring have a donut shaped gravity field

if you would be able to have a ship genarate those rings in frount of itself, and it would fly through the center, it would experience a linier slingshot effect simmiler to going around a star, after a series of these it could theroticly approach the speed of light (it wouldnt be able to reach it however, because the energy beam genarating the rings would be traveling at the speed of light

even if the thery that mass becomes infonate as speed increases is true, it would have minimal effect on this system, because the heavyr it is, the more the gravitional field effects it, and the better the system works

it would gather the protons needed by colecting them from intersteller plasma via a mag scoop (simmiler to a mag sail that you guys have been talking about, but instead this is an intake for intersteller hydrogen)

of corse the best thing about this system, would be that it would be able to be stationary, the ship I described had the system internal because it would need it to slow down as well (I doubt that a mag sail would be an effective intyersteller brake at those speeds)

but once the ship is there, it would be able to build a stationary system consisting of physical rings supporting the blackholes, wich would be much larger because of their permenent nature (the rings of the ship would only last a few millionths of a second due to hawking radiation, although some small blackholes may combine to make bigger ones that would leave a trail)

those rings would allow a ship to acheave almost infonate speeds (therareticly) depending on the size of the black holes, and the amount of stages of rings

a ship would simply fly into the ring system, and it would be accelarated, it would cruse untill it reached a simmiler ring system at the destanation that would slow it back down

of corse, lower power rings would be perfact for inter soler system commerse, it would take the round trip time from Earth to Saturn from 1.5 years with fusion, to mabe hours or days

of corse, the rings would require more than just power, they would require physical matter to constantly feed the blackholes to keep the gravity field stable, but the profit potentual that the fast traveling system would make, would be much greater than the upkeep costs

I came up with that idea in about 5 min while taking a shower about 6 months ago lol
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Betaray

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2902
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2004, 03:48:07 PM »
sry for the double post, but I just laid down my most advanced idea, and noone is going to comment on it?
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Zircon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2004, 04:25:02 PM »
Code: [Select]
now I have thought, if you could atrifually make those mini black holes, possibly by having 2 protons decay from an energy state (a thery of mine) if would form a black hole that has very little mass, but is infonatly dence

I have no idea if this is possible or what the effects would be if it happened...

Quote
now if you could form those blackholes into a series of rings that have trillions of blackholes a square micrometer, than their combined gravity wells would make the ring have a donut shaped gravity field

if you would be able to have a ship genarate those rings in frount of itself, and it would fly through the center, it would experience a linier slingshot effect simmiler to going around a star, after a series of these it could theroticly approach the speed of light (it wouldnt be able to reach it however, because the energy beam genarating the rings would be traveling at the speed of light

Kinda like the star trek warp engine moving the starship one small bit very many times.

Quote
even if the thery that mass becomes infonate as speed increases is true, it would have minimal effect on this system, because the heavyr it is, the more the gravitional field effects it, and the better the system works

*feels out of the loop* The mass of an object doesn't mean anything when it comes to gravity or am i simply thinking of the wrong thing, you know a 1 kg ball compared to a 10 kg ball will fall equally fast except for the air resistance.

Quote
but once the ship is there, it would be able to build a stationary system consisting of physical rings supporting the blackholes, wich would be much larger because of their permenent nature (the rings of the ship would only last a few millionths of a second due to hawking radiation, although some small blackholes may combine to make bigger ones that would leave a trail)

You say due to hawking radiation, thermal hawking radiation is created by black holes collapsing. The miniature holes would collapse because of their instable nature and in turn create hawking radiation right?

The rest looks fine and it is an interesting theory however i have no idea if it would work in reality or if it is even plausible. A few steps out of my league...

Question: What is going to keep the rings in place? The miniature rings and the bigger physical ones are probably going to subjected to different forces as well as the ship. :op2:  

Offline Betaray

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2902
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2004, 11:18:46 AM »
there is a thery about those micro blackholes, im just assumeing the thery is true (im assuming alot, but if it works, man it would kick ass!!!)

yes, think of a gauss cannon, with the round magnets and the projectile moving inside those magnets, now turn those magnets into rings of blackholes and that is basicly my idea

the valocity of the pull of gravity is the same, but the force of the pull is different, wich is why they have different weights in the first place, if the ships mass increases the pull of the gravitional field would increase to offset the increase in mass, and thus its accelaration would be unafftected

well hawking radiation is Professor Steven Hawking's thery of why the universe isnt full of blackholes, small ones loose mass in a form of radiation he calls Hawking radiation, again its another thery

for the rings genarated by the ship, they would only exist for a few millionths of a second, wich would be enough to have a ship pass through if the ship is going 10% of the speed of light or more (slower than that it would use a Fusion engine to get to 10% lightspeed, achelly that would be the longest part of the trip, ass well the rings could only decelarate the ship to around 10% lightspeed, but then it could just deploy a magsail to slow it down)

thus because the mini blackholes decay so rapidly, their movement would be minamal, the permenent rings ont eh other hand would need active guidence systems to keep the blackholes in perfact alingment, thats why there would be a physical ring around them, that ring would be equipd with high power lasers, and matter injecters to feed the blackholes, and to keep them in the right spot
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Zircon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2004, 03:22:03 PM »
Quote
well hawking radiation is Professor Steven Hawking's thery of why the universe isnt full of blackholes, small ones loose mass in a form of radiation he calls Hawking radiation, again its another thery

I know, he also changed his theory recently. Information about matter sucked into a black hole isn't destroyed, it is only mangled. So that you can still see what it has eaten.

I said
Quote
You say due to hawking radiation, thermal hawking radiation is created by black holes collapsing. The miniature holes would collapse because of their instable nature and in turn create hawking radiation right?
becuse you turned it around "(the rings of the ship would only last a few millionths of a second due to hawking radiation, although some small blackholes may combine to make bigger ones that would leave a trail)"

It doesn't collapse "due to" hawking radiation, it creates it.

Offline Betaray

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2902
should we go to back to the moon,
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2004, 03:42:22 PM »
well eathor way the effect is the same, the mini blackholes would evaporate so to speak, and thus would not leave a trail

but, with all those blackholes so close to eachother, even if they last only a few millionths of a second some may combine to form more massive blackholes that would evaporate slower, they would last mabe only a few seconds, to as long as a few days, and thus would produce a trail of small blackholes

that was my origional though as too why using this type of system wouldnt work well with regular back and forth commerse, and thus thought of the ring system

come to think of it, that ring system seems familiar, i think I saw it on a late nite cartoon, but I cant remember what one
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode