Author Topic: Math Riddle  (Read 11264 times)

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Math Riddle
« on: April 18, 2011, 12:46:01 PM »
I'm sure i've shown how to do this here before, so if you've seen the answer from me, please leave it for others to figgure out.


I can prove inequalities to be equal, that is to say, things that shouldn't add up to a certain number do.  Can you prove how:

2 + 2 = 3 ?

and

2 + 1 = 1 ?
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline jcj94

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
    • http://techfusion-279.com
Math Riddle
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 05:32:04 PM »
Powers of two?  2^0 + 2^1 = 1 + 2= 3

For the second.. I don't know :/

Offline Hidiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
Math Riddle
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 07:45:38 PM »
We define a system with the domain of all integers and a new operation (named # for the purpose of this proof), the function being: a # b = 2 - a + b.

plug in 2 and 1, and you get 2 # 1 = 2 - 2 + 1 = 1. By abuse of notation, we can rename # as + in our new system, so 2 + 1 = 1.

The whole point of our new system and operation is for 2 to be the neutral element in regard to the operation.

Edit: I took a closer look at this and realized that 2 is not a neutral element for this operation. This operation just happens to work.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 12:56:44 AM by Hidiot »
"Nothing from nowhere, I'm no one at all"

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4954
Math Riddle
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 04:35:16 AM »
Hmm, I rather enjoy that answer Hidiot. Nice terminology.


Although, I should probably object to the "prove" part of the original question. Such "proofs" generally contain a hidden logical flaw that most people have trouble picking out. Like how squaring and square roots aren't perfect inverse operations.

As an example, sqrt((-1)^2) = 1  (not -1, as it would be if they were inverse operations).

You can probably use that fact in a creative way to make something appear to be like a proof. I can't bring myself to do it though.
 

Offline jcj94

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
    • http://techfusion-279.com
Math Riddle
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 01:08:59 PM »
I honestly thought I was on to something... :(
Welp, yay for new math concepts.

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Math Riddle
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 04:52:00 PM »
no one has done it the way I'm thinking so far

Though, that is a very well thought out answer Hidiot

I'll give you all a hint:

in context of it's normal everyday use, this makes perfect sense.  Out of context, as it is presented here, it will make no sense at all.
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Math Riddle
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2011, 05:06:22 PM »
first I need to harness the power of anti gravity particles. Then i need to use them on a black hole. then i need to fly my long skinny ship into the black hole. hopefully emerge on the other side where every thing is different and i die a horrible death maybe. but then just then in the nano seconds before my death 2+2 would equal 3 with out any sort of trick or mathmatical know how.

Offline evecolonycamander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
Math Riddle
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2011, 05:06:59 PM »
I see how it is possible if you merely replace the numbers with a variable such as X. so:
2 + 2 = 3 ?
Is
X + X = 3 ?

AND

2 + 1 = 1 ?
Is
X + Y = 1 ?

X= 1.5
Y= -0.5
''The blight cant get us up here!''
-famous last words
--------------o0o--------------
Outpost 2: EoM project status: Re-planning

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Math Riddle
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 10:33:52 PM »
no...that is just an invalid argument...that's like saying "I'm replacing the elephant with a quarter, so yea, the elephant fits in my pocket"
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline jcj94

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
    • http://techfusion-279.com
Math Riddle
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 10:35:40 AM »
Quote
"I'm replacing the elephant with a quarter, so yea, the elephant fits in my pocket"
Thats just the way ECC works.

I brought this problem up in first one day and yeah, the way Hidiot showed us was what we used.
 

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Math Riddle
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 12:24:46 PM »
One more hint before I end up giving the answers:

while it is a math problem, it isn't a direct math problem.  Think about the applications of math in other areas.
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Hidiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
Math Riddle
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 01:00:33 PM »
Thinking graphically (as in, the shapes of the numbers):
Take a 2 and invert it by its base. Now overlap the base of the inverted 2 with the base of the standard 2, and you get a shape that looks almost like a 3. You'd need to remove the line to get an actual 3.

Also, 2 H + 1 O =1 H2O.
"Nothing from nowhere, I'm no one at all"

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Math Riddle
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 05:23:32 PM »
Hidiot got the second one semi-correct, lol (my fault though, I wasn't thinking empiricly when I was typing, heh)
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline jcj94

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
    • http://techfusion-279.com
Math Riddle
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2011, 05:12:07 PM »
I give, I don't know about you guys though.. PM me the answer?  I promise I wont post it :P

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Math Riddle
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2011, 05:37:08 PM »
I'll just post it.  It has to do with groups of different objects.

For example:

An apple and an orange is a group of two DIFFERENT fruits.  An apple and a pear is another group of two DIFFERENT fruits.  If we add these together, we end up with a group of three DIFFERENT fruits.  Thus, in this example with its context, 2 + 2 = 3
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline jcj94

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
    • http://techfusion-279.com
Math Riddle
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2011, 07:42:06 PM »
Oh, darn.  That.. wow.  I was over thinking that A LOT...

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4954
Math Riddle
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2011, 07:46:17 PM »
Sounds like Hidiot was on to something when he said redefine the "+" symbol to be a different operator.

You're talking about cardinality and set union.
A + B
|A U B|

Mind you, trying to fit that into an equality still doesn't quite work without some serious abuse of notation. You would need to use the same symbol to represent both a set, and the cardinality of that set.
 

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Math Riddle
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2011, 08:20:06 PM »
no, I'm just talking about adding things together :P

In all seriousness, though, it's just ment to make people think.  Rather than accept that something is true, find out why it is true.
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names