Poll

Should wreckage be done?

1: For Convecs (faster build speed)
0 (0%)
2: For Lynx (better armor)
2 (50%)
3: For Lynx (better speed)
1 (25%)
4: For Panther (better armor)
0 (0%)
5: For Panther (reduced build time)
0 (0%)
6: For Earthworker (faster build time)
0 (0%)
7: For EarthWorker (less damage when destroying things)
0 (0%)
8: For Spider (less time for capture)
0 (0%)
9: For Guard Posts (a type of Cluster GP)
0 (0%)
10: Some combination of the choices above (leave a comment)
1 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: New Wreckages?  (Read 3005 times)

Offline jcj94

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New Wreckages?
« on: March 25, 2011, 06:56:31 PM »
I had an Idea for some guard posts cluster groupings.  Basically, imagine 5 guard posts put in an X pattern.  That way it'd be more effective (having less health though)

It might not necessarily be a tech, but hey, I think It'd be a bonus.  Maybe Plymouth only so they actually get a bit more USE out of GP's.

The rest are pretty self explanatory.

Offline Spikerocks101

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 07:23:31 PM »
Most of them seem very pointless. To be honest, if your going to have wreckage, make it something extreme and super important, so to make people actually go out of their way for it. For example, a piece of wreckage which decreases all buildings cost by 20%.
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Offline jcj94

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2011, 07:37:36 PM »
Hmmm...

That might work.  

Do you have a name for it for quick referance?

My idea is QuicPac or TightPac, seeing as they actually do explain the way that the buildings are made.

Offline evecolonycamander

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2011, 09:47:59 PM »
if a wreckage would be made i would like to see something that makes UNITS cheaper. buildings are usually a one time build for me so i dont have to worry about that ore. it's well spent. units die of quickly and i often find my 6-10 smelters running on empty.(eden sucks you dry and plymoth is weak late game)

i could make a tech mod very quickly assuming i can stay focused(F'ing ADHD)
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Offline jcj94

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 07:01:01 AM »
Quote
i could make a tech mod very quickly assuming i can stay focused(F'ing ADHD)
Then take your pills and make some.

I just kind of think adding some new wreckage would add a little more... desprate research/ new element/ 6 Player LoS games

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2011, 08:54:06 AM »
i make tech ONLY if i have a idea of what im making. give me something to make and i'll add it.  
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Offline jcj94

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 09:28:59 AM »
anything mentioned in this topic.

Especially upgraded lynx armor.  Maybe a plym only tech that would level the Thors Hammer

I want to see if we can make a new type of Guard post.  

One that is like 5 GP's in one, 3X3, that can take only 1 type of turret.  That way you can build 1 Microwave GP, but have 5 Seperate turrets.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 09:31:10 AM by jcj94 »

Offline TH300

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 10:22:10 AM »
Don't forget to write plausible teasers for the added research topics.

And be aware that more wreckages increase the risk of making the outcome of a game totally random.

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 11:35:25 AM »
most people dont read the teaser after the first play through. but i'll write it anyways.
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Offline TH300

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 03:21:34 PM »
Quote
most people dont read the teaser after the first play through. but i'll write it anyways.
Reading it once matters as much as reading it twice. Its also not so much about reading, but about keeping the game scientifically correct.

Offline jcj94

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 11:53:40 AM »
And what do you mean worrying about how random the outcome is.

Isn't that a GOOD thing?

I mean, if a new person faces ECC and gets tiger mod wreckage and Lynx armor wreckage, then he'll pretty much win in that sens, unless ECC gets the GP upgrade wreckage.

I mean, honestly, sometimes random outcomes are a GOOD thing.

Offline TH300

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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 01:06:42 PM »
And if ECC gets the wreckage, the new person is uber owned. Same if one player gets 2 wreckages and the other gets none. Even worse: you are facing a group of lynx which you would normally kill, but they have increased armor (which you don't know) and get killed. If you had known about the armor, you'd have attacked with a bigger force.

I may add that randomness can sometimes make the game more fun, but it can also take away from it.

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 01:51:45 PM »
Hmm.. I say that IF we make a new wreckage we place a trigger that disables all other wreckage for the player that has one already. no matter WHAT kind of wreckage it is
 
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Offline jcj94

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 01:53:35 PM »
THAT annnd

Add a trigger that makes it so that everyone gets a message: "WRECKAGE ####" Controlled by Player #
 

Offline BlackBox

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 04:40:35 PM »
I don't understand why these kinds of things are becoming so commonplace in maps people are making. If it's not wreckage it's some kind of stupid text cheat or easter eggs or something else to purposely make the game unfair.

Honestly, just focus on making a good mission. It doesn't have to have all these "extras" that serve no purpose except to unbalance the game, and I don't think anyone cares about you showing off programming knowledge, if that's the intended effect, by adding these special things in that don't make the mission better.

Offline jcj94

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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 07:22:36 PM »
It's to add another objective to the game.

Get better units to wipe out your enemy.  That, or get killed yourself.

It's almost as if it's its own game type.  Last One Researched.

not to show off knowledge at all.  I'm a total failure when it comes to programming.  Well, not total fail.  But you get my point.

Offline Highlander

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2011, 04:02:39 AM »
Quote
And what do you mean worrying about how random the outcome is.

Isn't that a GOOD thing?
Randomness is not a good thing. There is a reason why people don't play with disasters on.
Having a good game ruined because of a random Vortex or Meteor is just a waste of time.


Quote
I mean, if a new person faces ECC and gets tiger mod wreckage and Lynx armor wreckage, then he'll pretty much win in that sens, unless ECC gets the GP upgrade wreckage.
The problem here is that the NuB won't be getting any wreckages. Advanced players will reach out for the wreckages quicker and thereby put the NuB in a even worse position. The list of dirty tactics to achieve this can be made quite long.



Another issue here, which I suspect neither of you (ECC & jcj) have actually witnessed is that while wreckages have always been around, the use of them has been limited. If you start searching actively for a wreckage, your opponent(s), will usually take notice and start producing arms, either to destroy the wreckage or your base. Usually it's better to destroy the wreckage or end the game than to face the  faster Tigers.
- Secondly, the time and effort it takes to look for a wreckage usually is not worth it. On the standard maps it takes quite a bit of time to locate the wreckage, time which can be better spent developing your base/army. After locating wreckage you still need to go and fetch it, which leaves your opponent with plenty of room to manouver for your base or expedition force.

So all in all, Wreckages are either ignored or destroyed in more cases than they actually see usage. And if someone manages to get a hold of it, then it is usually the better player which thereby increases his chances of success.


EDIT:
Like Spike said, most of these wreckage bonuses seems rather pointless.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 04:04:10 AM by Highlander »
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Offline Lord Of Pain

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2011, 07:56:04 AM »
i agree to some extent of what highlander has said, though i don't see them as pointless in a single player game.

Such as in a game where it would be necessary to complete a mission and instead of the old starship parts it would do other things for your colony... Such as unlock new techs for the basic lab.

How ever i woulden't suggest to use this feature in multiplayer, reasons stated by Spike and High.

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2011, 12:38:30 PM »
well an idea is that mabie you could disable(through the resource option) the ability for players to get the wreckage. advanced players can have it off and newbies can get it. also, you can have the wreckage respawn where it dropped(unit killed or mistakenly dropped.)
but i do agree that making tons of wreckages in a game can ruin it. I will state again the idea of setting a trigger to 'remove' wreckages from a players view if they already own one type of non-objective wreckage. basically player 1 gets 'a' wreckage. player 1 now cant get 'b' and 'c' wreckages  
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Offline Hooman

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2011, 09:40:49 PM »
When you create the wreckage "unit", it might be possible to set the owner to a specific player rather than Gaia. I believe that might have made it only visible to the indicated player. That could help ensure equal distribution of the rewards, provided the cargo truck isn't destroyed after picking it up.

I could be wrong though, as I don't think I ever really experimented with this. Some of that behavior might simply be things I heard, but never verified, and I've certainly never tested the practicality of the idea.


Also, if that does work, it doesn't necessarily solve the balance issue people have already pointed out. For instance, experienced players might have a better idea where the wreckage can be located, or even that wreckage exists on that level.
 

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2011, 10:10:18 PM »
indeed hooman. i play borehole for two reasons only: weackages and middle ore. often though first time players ask 'why' and 'what' sooo....
is there a way to have a small into at the beginning that tells you of the stuff on the map? use the same code for a briefing i mean....
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Offline Lord Of Pain

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2011, 06:00:50 AM »
i beleive you can have a chat message implemented so it can be seen. I mean not by a player, but a recording kinda like a script.

I would use that cuzz i know it was used in one of sir bomber's maps (forget which one but it messaged that "sirbomer left the game" even though he wasent playing) so yes i am very confident that we can implement messages into the game using a form of code or somthing...

as for a breifing... that would be too dificult at least too time consuming or maybe people might want to avoid that?

That, or make a readme.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 06:02:14 AM by Lord Of Pain »

Offline jcj94

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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2011, 06:58:35 AM »
NuBs might not read a readme LoP.  Most people who buy software don't take the time to read ALL the way through the Copyright ( I did, for two games.  Halo, and Jedi Knight took me forever, so I can understand why).  However, if we kept it short and sweet, and had some sort of "Readme" filethat went with newer maps that would describe them, then we might see some use out of them.

I actually enjoy wreckage on mid size maps.  I don't actually attack the convoys, I just build more units.  I'm more of a defensive player up until the end, so I ,rarely,(even on Borehole) search for wreckage.  Of course, I end up gettin wiped out later. But hey, It's for fun right?

But if you guys wont bother using them, I guess there is no point in trying to implement them.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2011, 07:05:40 AM »
Obviously it's possible to implement a rudimentary "briefing" by popping open a text box (see Plymouth Cold War), but in multiplayer the real issue becomes waiting for the other players to finish reading (or disconnect, or whatever) before starting the game.  You'd probably also want some way to indicate who's ready and who isn't, and maybe even an "auto-start after X seconds" feature.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 07:05:56 AM by Sirbomber »
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Offline evecolonycamander

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New Wreckages?
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2011, 07:34:52 AM »
Quote
Obviously it's possible to implement a rudimentary "briefing" by popping open a text box (see Plymouth Cold War), but in multiplayer the real issue becomes waiting for the other players to finish reading (or disconnect, or whatever) before starting the game.  You'd probably also want some way to indicate who's ready and who isn't, and maybe even an "auto-start after X seconds" feature.
what we could do is the breefing is just a version #(of map) and information like wreckage is located on map, and blight is present and ore is scarce. then auto start the game after a minute.
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