Author Topic: New Techtree  (Read 4306 times)

Offline Sirbomber

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New Techtree
« on: April 21, 2008, 07:37:11 AM »
As you may or may not be aware, I've been thinking of creating a new tech tree for OP2 from the ground up.  Basically, this will re-invent the game.  People will need to learn the new techtree and then create new strategies.  Unit, building, and weapon stats will all be changed.

But the problem is, techtrees are huge!  I can't do it alone!  So I'm looking for people to help me plan this massive undertaking in OP2 history.  I'll need people to help me plan the research order, people to balance the techs (research time, lab, scientists, upgrade effects), and people to write the tech descriptions.  Yes, I need help from people will all sorts of skills and talents!

If you...
- Are good at planning and staying organized
- Know how to balance things to ensure a fair game
- Can write creatively and sound scientific while doing so
- Can type quickly and error-free

...Then I have a job for you!
If you're interested, sign up here!
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Offline Leviathan

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New Techtree
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2008, 07:41:02 AM »
To start with I would say we do one new tech tree for one team.

So we pick a team and write the tech tree for that team.

Using tech tree you can edit so much of the game such as unit stats and such. Also Plymouth could have eden weps, am I right? It would be good if you can point out what can and cant be done using the tech tree file.

Offline Sirbomber

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New Techtree
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 07:46:38 AM »
Just about anything can be done with a modified techtree! You can change hit points, armor, ore cost, power requirements, weapon damage, rate of fire, people required to operate, production level, build rate, ... The options are endless!  You can even make self-destructing the most powerful weapon in the game (in fact, I did in my Scout Rush game)!  And yes, you can give Eden's weapons to Plymouth (and vice versa).  However, it just doesn't look right.

You can even make it so that players have to research concrete walls, Residences, and Light Towers!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 07:47:23 AM by Sirbomber »
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Offline Hidiot

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New Techtree
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 10:21:08 AM »
I've been tinkering with the tech tree a while back and tried the "making residences researchable" thing (with some 10 basic lab researches beforehand) and found you'd need to start with at least... 70-80 colonists to barely have enough people to get a nursery and university operational. Really thrilling, but needs a lot of balancing thought.

I think that we should also change other files, like the one that influences your population. Longer building times and much longer research times would do well, but then you'd have to change every single-player mission, as they're designed for certain speeds.

Vehicle speeds need to have more steps... right now, a jump from 4 to 3 in speed means a heck lot! And increasing the speed of ConVecs for example is a good thing, but not by too much.

I also looked into the idea of expanding storage capacities of storages, by reducing their Health. Some researches that also add a consequence are a must for more dynamism.
[end of idea spillage]

I'd like to help with the balancing and adding, but as with many people, time is a major factor.
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Offline Hooman

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New Techtree
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 01:51:02 PM »
Quote
but then you'd have to change every single-player mission, as they're designed for certain speeds
That's only an issue if you replace the original tech files. You can just have a tech tree with a new name, and then only levels designed to use the new tech tree will be affected.


As for what can be done, you can change all the properties that there are tags for. I was going to give a quick rundown of a few of these, since I just happen to have some stuff on OP2 open, but the list is getting rather large, and was a bit technical in some areas, so I'll post it in the programming forum and link to it when I'm done.


Edit:
Posted: http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.ph...indpost&p=64006
 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 03:04:25 PM by Hooman »

Offline Empedocles

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New Techtree
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 07:52:13 AM »
They were poking at the tech tree in another thread and the weapon "BFG" came up at the bottom of the list. Put that one it, if only to see what it is.

Offline Sirbomber

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New Techtree
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 01:45:39 PM »
Techtrees can't add units to the game.
I don't think anything can add units to the game, actually. Not without some major hacking of OP2.

Besides, that BFG isn't what we all want it to be. It's just an unused unit that will crash the game if you try to do anything with it.  It doesn't even have any graphics associated with it.

Edit: But this is all off-topic! Any volunteers? No previous experience required!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 01:46:23 PM by Sirbomber »
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Offline Drakmar

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New Techtree
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 02:27:11 PM »
I would like to help out. I've tinkered with the techtree before, and i'm really good at understanding how technology works, as well as writing down decent technology descriptions.

Offline Leviathan

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New Techtree
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 02:42:13 PM »
Quote
Techtrees can't add units to the game.
I don't think anything can add units to the game, actually. Not without some major hacking of OP2.
You kind of can add units.. make the RPG realy powerfull and slow shooting and cost 2000 ore. That would be a new unit. But yea we are stuck with what we have unit gfx/shooting style wise.

And I agree giving plymouth eden weps looks stupid.

What current ideas do you have?

I take it you want to start with basic lab and work from there? Same as current tech trees. And also make maps similar to Pie where you have the basic tech done for you to save time.

The Op2 tech trees are kinda linear imo. Other games you may pick early on which route you want to go down and you are commited to that. I would love to see something similar to that.

Offline Drakmar

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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 02:44:19 PM »
I would think you could do that. We could set up the tech tree to make certain techs available/unavailable depending on the research path the player chooses to make.

Offline Arklon

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New Techtree
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 02:51:05 PM »
Quote
And also make maps similar to Pie where you have the basic tech done for you to save time.
Pretty much all (Dynamix) maps are already like that, it just depends on your starting resources you choose during game setup.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 03:11:36 PM »
I don't think we can make things unavailable without some fancy DLL code. There's a REQUIRES field, but not UNAVAILABLE field.

But yes, I was planning on setting this new techtree up more like the OP1 techtree, with obvious categories (Physics, Mathematics, Biology, etc.) branching out into different sub-fields and whatnot.
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Offline Drakmar

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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 04:51:43 PM »
Well, maybe we can make certain ones "obsolete" like researching the Standard Lab removes the Basic Lab from your tech tree.

Offline Sirbomber

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New Techtree
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2008, 05:54:03 PM »
I just realized this project is going to need one of two things.
Either:
1) Somebody who can write all-new missions to use the new techtree.
or
2) Somebody who can go in to the existing missions and hack them to be compatible with the new techtree.

Note that number 2 is not a simple hex edit to replace "multitek.txt" with "multitek2.txt" as we'll need to get rid of Basic Labs and change the technologies players start with depending on their starting resource level.
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Offline Leviathan

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New Techtree
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2008, 06:25:02 PM »
Yeah it will need new maps. So what?

This could be great! :)

Offline BlackBox

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New Techtree
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2008, 09:57:00 PM »
Quote
I don't think we can make things unavailable without some fancy DLL code. There's a REQUIRES field, but not UNAVAILABLE field.
Sure you can. Just take the tech that is associated with a specific item (see building / vehicles / weapons.txt) and set:
Code: [Select]
COST -1
If you want to disable it for a certain colony, use
Code: [Select]
EDEN_COST -1
PLYMOUTH_COST -1

Setting the cost to 0 makes it immediately available in game (unless there are REQUIRES lines, in which case those must be researched first).

Offline Gagagigo3

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New Techtree
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2008, 01:01:17 AM »
I want to help with the descriptions about a research. Im good minding up small stories (but not long) And with the spare time i have next 2 weeks (holidays ^^) i can do a big part already if were starting straight away.

 
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Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2008, 01:12:24 AM »
I think Sirbomber meant disabling researches that belong to a different branch at one point.

F.E. You have 2 researches, but if you do one, the other one gets removed from the research list afterwards.

That, I'm afraid, can only be done by hard-coding it into missions... by setting the cost to -1.
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2008, 04:54:09 AM »
Yes, that's what I'm talking about Hidiot.

If anyone's interested: #OP2Tech on IRC.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 10:22:10 AM by Sirbomber »
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2008, 07:56:07 PM »
Double-posting is fun!
Well, things have started and are off at a brisk pace.  While I don't really have much actual tech work done (it's a slow process) planning is more important right now.

Anyways, I think you should all know some important information:
We're going to try to actually organize this into a real "tree" with different "branches".  What does this mean? Basically, not everyone will have to play the same way.
The main branches so far are:

Computer Sciences - Vehicle and Robot Research
Social Sciences - Psychology, Sociology, the Humanities
Astronomy/Planetary Sciences - Space, Mining, Disaster Warning Systems
Biology (Plant and Human) - Medicine, Reproductive Science, Agricultural Studies
Physics - Weapons and Spacecraft Development
Chemistry - Ore Smelting, Recycling, Power Generation
Engineering - Unit and Structure Durability and Maintenance

Just because something focuses on a certain area doesn't mean it's the only thing that will earn you anything in that area.  Focusing only on Physics, for example, will not get you the most powerful weapons. Only by exploring all of the branches can you get the "best" stuff.

Also, we're going to include some techs that don't directly do anything for you, but are requirements for several other techs.  This will give it more of a "tree" feel.

I'm looking forward to people's suggestions! And remember, everyone is welcome to join the team! You don't need programming experience, just dedication!
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Offline Gagagigo3

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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2008, 10:16:10 AM »
bump

I can make a sketch if u havent already. Though u can better do urself, cauze i dont know what research names are gonna be included. Yust stick me to da descriptions. Long live wikipedia ^^
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2008, 01:15:46 PM »
Uh, yeah... No offense, but I'd prefer it if somebody a bit more fluent in English was writing the text portions.

You're welcome to help with anything else though.
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2008, 06:25:19 PM »
I don't want people to forget about this, so I'm going to double post again.

I'm still slowly chipping away at this project, but I still need help from as many people as possible! This won't take up much of your time at all, so don't let let your busy schedule prevent you from helping with this! And remember, the only experience you need to help is to have played OP2!
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Offline Cwadrupldijjit

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New Techtree
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2009, 11:08:37 AM »
Have you played Civilization IV?  I think that that was a good tech map, but if you would prefer to do it a different way, mazzeltopf.

I'll assist wherever I can.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 11:08:52 AM by Cwadrupldijjit »
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2009, 11:58:50 AM »
The techtree itself was finished awhile ago.  If you still want to help, I need all the help I can get with map-making since OP2Mapper is evil.  I may also need some help with coding here and there, but what I really need more than anything else are mappers.
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