Author Topic: A Theory Less Considered  (Read 9026 times)

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2006, 07:13:32 PM »
lol just because i piss people off doesnt mean im doing it on purpose :)

the fact is, theres only ever been 2 or 3 other people who see me without bias and thats hacker, freeza and maybe lev. yes, i know i can be an ass sometimes but we are all guilty of that. i by no means forget that i am a human being.

and to be quite frank, if someone is so flaky that saying "well, why dont YOU code something up?" is enough to make them not do it, i think theyre just looking for an excuse not to work. thats why i say, hacker absorbs alot of crap from people while putting in a great deal of work. nobody else here has as much responsibility or takes as much crap as he does except maybe Galactic. I think they both deserve a bit more respect for what they do.

and seriously, dont take this the wrong way but you arent around that much. you dont see the discussions myself hacker and freeza have or the effort i expend. its easy to think of me like im still a brand-spanking new member, but being an admin changes your outlook on things.

i get the feeling that some people are resorting to picking out individual issues and picking them to death. i know im the messenger, so its easy to bash me and point out all my failings but thats not why we're here. we need to discuss OPU issues, not the the interpretation of the tone of people's topics.

Offline Sl0vi

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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2006, 07:37:02 PM »
Well, horus you tend to be quite rude against people which might be what causes them to get paranoid around you and your jokes. I haven't seen anything that indicates you conspiring anything against OPU, and I don't see why you would. The only thing I've heard about any conspiracy theories is in this thread. :/

I have to agree with your points. People here at OPU need to start working more together and slander each other less. But trying to force people together on voluntary projects just doesn't work, no matter how much input the community gives to them you still can't force them to be more open. Trying to push people too much might just end up making them leave, which I don't think is a help at all. The only thing you can really do is to try to encourage teamwork as much as possible.

As for getting more people involved in work at OPU, you need to make a list or something specific of things that should be done. I don't think everybody that can edit the wiki and website really has any idea what they should edit most of the time. If you have something specific you want done, then ask some community members if they could do it. Maybe make a thread or something about what needs to be done and maybe even one for making requests too.

If you get teamwork to be a regular part of the community, then maybe it will be easier to get everyone working together on some bigger project later.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 07:38:14 PM by Sl0vi »
!!!YAY!!!

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2006, 08:08:42 PM »
Colony3 is totally voluntary. Thats the point. Only people who WANT to work will be working on projects, thus (hopefully) weeding out the layabouts.

At one point Lev posted a "OPU Jobs" in the news and it was actually pretty well received. Maybe we should code up a board that admins can add jobs to, users can apply to do and will display the people working on them and the progress.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2006, 02:04:09 PM »
Quote
I have a theory about OPU. Maybe its already dead. It just hasnt been buried yet.

With everyone pulling in so many directions, nothing goes anywhere.
By that logic the entire Earth should be annhilated in a spectacular fashion...
"As usual, colonist opinion is split between those who think the plague is a good idea, and those who are dying from it." - Outpost Evening Star

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Offline Highlander

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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2006, 08:10:57 PM »
For once, I'm gonna do what I have never done before I think. Involve myself in "a political discussion around Outpost 2 and the community around it".

- So, the question some will be asking I guess, why I have never done that before ?

- The answer is simple. All I want to do, is to play Outpost 2, nothing more nothing less. I care little for who is sceming against who, which server the IRC and forums are located on and who are admins.. you name the rest of whats going on here of politics.

(I know this will probably piss off quite a few people, but this is the truth. This is the same with most the older players/WON players aswell. Most of them were older than me back then, which means they are 25+ now. We don't care about the things I mentioned before. All we want is a "Nice/Good/Comfortable" place to play OP2.. I'll get back to this later)






Before I continue this post, I'll say a few things which can help you understand my point of view:

Ever since I got OP2 back in 97, I have loved it from first sight(or first try if you want). Early 98, I started playing online on WON, and continued to play there until it was finally shut down. I started out as a complete n00b, but slowly mastered the build orders/research orders and games played at mark 300-500.

After about 1 year or so, I started my training under Falcon (Later <PÅ>Falcon, which some of you might know). Now focusing on micro rushes and quick games (mostly Pie Chart) I spent a long time practicing this for endless amounts of games, getting the timing just so, both buildings and research, until I finally mastered this aswell. Having beaten Falcon a couple games in a row, there wasn't much more to learn about rushes, and I moved on again.

I continued to play the best players for some time, until I was the best player on WON myself, staying on top for about half a year or so. As I started to play a bit less, I also shifted focus from the fast rushes, to a more laid back style of playing, dragging the games out.


- Basicly what I'm saying is: I know I don't have the hand-eye coordination now that I did back then, but my head is still full of knowledge of OP2, lots which seemingly have been forgotten in this community. Having played this game more extensively than most players currently here, my point of view or comments are mostly based on hard learned facts, rather than being the rambling of the average n00b(my opinion of a n00b at least).




Now, I'll move on to adress the topic discussed here:

As Horus states in his initial post, I also share the view that this community is slowly declining. For my part, I feel this has been happening over a long time rather than being a new found fenomena.

The biggest problem in my view, is the community's everlasting problem of keeping new members, and getting the old players back. (Talking on a more permanent basis here) Newcomers are coming in almost every day, post a short introduction, post a couple of questions and after recieving their answers, disappear forever. As a community, we need another way of getting them involved, getting them to play. (The regular "Hi, Welcome. Please come IRC to play" method hasn't worked for years.. perhaps time to work on another way to attract people to this game)

From other games I've played over long periods of time, experience shows me most of them stay alive because of a core of longtime experts who has played the game for years and refuse to stop playing it. With the exception of myself, this community has failed to attract even 1 single of the old, respected players from WON. We were at least 20-50 regular players(Who had played OP2 for years) when WON shut down, and quite a few has dropped by here, but none of the has stayed for a longer amount of time. (Exception here might be Pablo ?)
To be honest, this community is simply not very attractive to the old players:

- BM/AM's are frequently broken
- Players frequently quits games

In addition the IRC is a very "closed" community. With this I mean (very) little is done to make newcomers feel welcome. Be that old players or n00bs. The "regulars" often dominate the chat, with internal jokes (often taken from young or foreign players on the forums..), otherwise just replying they don't want to play a game because they are not in the mood, don't want to play with hamachi or just don't reply at all (alternatively answer questions with irrelevant remarks). Drop in 4-5 times and always experiencing this isn't gonna motivate people.

Concerning old WON players, they were often used to play this game quite differently from how OP2 is played nowadays, in addition to being rusty. Using Riledo as an example here, the answer isn't always to gang up on IRC and call down the old player who might have come onto IRC full of new found enthusiasm for the game, and told people he used to be good.

(Some of those old players are the reason OP2 didn't die off before WON was finally shut down. This is of course another story I'll let rest now)


If you are on IRC,

- Be polite  (Even though others might be rude/act silly)
- If someone ask a question, answer it properly, without any silly remarks
- If a newcomer enters, make an effort of trying to make them feel welcomed

Just my opinion at least..





As for the community itself, I think we share alot of great ideas, and many of the ongoing projects are great. However as many have mentioned, our efforts go in way too many directions. The answer to increasing this community isn't to get a OP3 ready in 2-5 years, we have to focus on the small things that can enhance our gaming experience here an now.. or as soon as possible.

- Get the game-client project going (Won copy or whatever it is called)
- Make a few more colony games

Make the game interesting here and now, and worry about the big projects later. (Saying this without ever involving myself, but it's just how I feel about this)


Someone mentioned how well the community was working over at KevinAr18's site.
In my opinion this was because:

- The community had 1-2 main projects going. The OP3 storyline everyone agreed to, and were working with improving.
- The community there were led by players who had played OP2 for years. Something I believe led to members of that community respecting the admins more. (Since admins were already highly respected/well known members in the WON community)




To round of this long post, I'll add in my greatest concern.

Like I explained earlier, I have played this game extensively. I believe I can make use of a wide array of strategies in this game, and of course counteract most of them. However, this is not the case with (many?) players today.

Many players post proposed changes to the game when they run into difficulties. To mention a few: Thors being overpowered, panther speed and mass missiles.

My prayer to those that can change this game. Please don't tamper any more with it. The solutions to these things are already located within the game, there is no need to manipulate the game.

- Thors are not overpowered. (Acid > Thors) <-- please stop arguing on this point

- Panthers are good for early defense. If need speed go for lynx, if you need firepower, use Tigers. Panthers fill their designed role perfectly. And if your pointing a finger to the Tiger Speed upgrade.. Congrats, this is what I mean tampering with the game has unseen effects. Any map with Tiger speed upgrade research, or added wreckages has rendered the Panther useless. Blame yourself!

- Mass missiling is not a problem in the original game itself. If you fight your opponent on equal footing, how on earth do you provide him the time/ore to build 10-15 spaceports.. ? Again if your manipulating the game to suit yourself, be on the lookout for unknown consequences. (Be that AM setting or changing the Ore settings on a map)
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

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Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2006, 10:47:36 PM »
Excellent contribution, Highlander. These are really valuable thoughts that I think everyone should consider. I especially agree with your views on how the community should treat projects, game changes (especially) and behavior on IRC. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with us.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2006, 01:49:33 PM »
Definitely agree with that post.

The whole thing with modifying the game to make it easier / overcome some "problem" people are having is something I've always argued against. For this reason, I argued adamantly against putting gameplay modifications into the game (I know 1.3.3 had some minor changes in sheets.vol, I think some of them were HP / workers of CCs or Trade Centers, among others). I took it into my own hands to be sure 1.3.4 wouldn't "ship" with any sheets.vol modifications, and thus the only modifications to sheets.vol in OP2 1.3.4 are:

- Uncompressed (allows people to see and modify the game rules if they really want to)
- Minor changes that don't affect game play (in the building / vehicles / weapons / space.txt files, the "owner type" for all buildable objects is set to B, which allows specific missions to "unlock" the item for a team it was typically not available to. This doesn't affect any of the standard missions or techtrees though, only makes it possible for custom missions to change the game rules if they want to).

As for the whole AM / BM thing, one possible way of dealing with that is to put controls in the code itself. For example, someone could code an LR mission to auto destroy all structures built before a certain mark (well, excepting power and mine structures, of course). Likewise would be possible with the AM, lockout weapons technologies until a certain mark (this could be accomplished with a trigger and a special techtree) or prevent weapons from leaving the player's base area (explode them or something).

Of course, neither of these would work directly with old missions, you would have to code these features into new missions.

The other option (which isn't as easy) would be to have a selector for BM / AM in the game settings window, and the game would enforce it on all missions if the checkbox was checked. This would be a bit more involved than the other fixes though, but would work on any map.

Players quitting because a game didn't go their way is something I have real problems with. I was in a game where someone quit because another player self destructed a scout near their base at the start of the game.

Same thing goes if you are losing. Let the game end, don't quit because "you know the outcome." Seems like poor sportsmanship to me.

---

As for the remarks on IRC, I have seen a few of these. I think from now on, if I keep seeing useless / irrelevant / stupid / demeaning comments from people when new people ask a question, I'll just kick ban them for a short time. If it keeps happening, I'll kickban them longer. They might not like this, but I'm sure the newcomer likes their idiotic comments much less.

This isn't a problem for most people, but I know there are a couple of people out there (you know who you are) which this directly applies to.
Saying you "don't want to follow the rules because they're stupid" doesn't hold much water either. By using IRC, you agree to follow the rules (the MOTD says this). If you don't like the rules, don't connect to IRC.

The other issue like you said already, people who don't want to play via Hamachi. Personally I'm tired of hearing it being called Hamas***ti or whatever people want to call it. True, it's not the greatest for some people, but its the best option that we have right now if you can't play any other way.
If you are the one complaining about Hamachi, why not stop complaining and start trying to get it to work. I don't buy the whole crap about "it screws with my network configuration", it doesn't make port forwarding magically stop working. Reinstall Hamachi or XP if you are able to, Hamachi works on XP fine for most people.

Going on with users being treated badly, I have seen lots of cases where people jump on another player because they have a slow connection, and tell them all sorts of nasty things.

Sure, it might be frustrating at times or not what you're used to, but give them the courtesy of letting them play with you. Sometimes a slow connection is something they can't help (only ISP in the area is dialup, can't afford broadband, other users in the building slowing network access, parents, not them, decide what ISP they are using).

So yes, if you're going to treat other users like crap or make them feel less welcome for stupid reasons like these, start expecting a ban. Call us the spam nazis of OPU or whatever you want, but we are starting to get really irritated by the current rash of bad behavior on IRC. Remember also when you treat newcomers like the lowest scum on earth, be ready for it to come back around to you again, either from one player, a group of players, or the ops / admins.

So the bottom line is: if you can't treat other users nicely, either shape up or get out. If you can't do either, then we will show you the way out of the chat room / forums.

Offline lordly_dragon

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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2006, 07:03:46 PM »
After taking time to read everything. I will begin by saying that I am sorry for flaming back at Horus and Frezza...This said, we really need to put those conflict aside for once. People in general are beeing mean to each other and like highlander said op2 elder player are just discusted by this attitude.

Furthermore, We need to know specific things that have to be done. You want them to  be done? Well post for it somewhere. I just have been fired from myjob because of a scedule problem so now I am full of free time and I will gladly help because this will make me learn something. Ranting on the other hand do not make me brighter.

So, what can I do for you? for a better future.

Ps to all member: Put aside your political strugle. UNITED WE STAND! ALONE WE DIE!

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Offline Slaughter (PhodoX)

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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2006, 09:43:57 PM »
Quote
As for the whole AM / BM thing, one possible way of dealing with that is to put controls in the code itself. For example, someone could code an LR mission to auto destroy all structures built before a certain mark (well, excepting power and mine structures, of course). Likewise would be possible with the AM, lockout weapons technologies until a certain mark (this could be accomplished with a trigger and a special techtree) or prevent weapons from leaving the player's base area (explode them or something).


Yeah, that would be nice. And that would show that the people here code like they do the milk!


Quote
The other issue like you said already, people who don't want to play via Hamachi. Personally I'm tired of hearing it being called Hamas***ti or whatever people want to call it. True, it's not the greatest for some people, but its the best option that we have right now if you can't play any other way.
If you are the one complaining about Hamachi, why not stop complaining and start trying to get it to work. I don't buy the whole crap about "it screws with my network configuration", it doesn't make port forwarding magically stop working. Reinstall Hamachi or XP if you are able to, Hamachi works on XP fine for most people.

Yeah, that's annyoing when a guy wants to play, but refuses at all ways to use hamachi. I remember when that happened one time... I keept telling them to use Ham...
Quote
Here comes the SUPERNOVA SWARM!


<Upload the photo to the OPU servers please!!!!>

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2006, 10:31:29 PM »
let me add an annoying thing.

If you can end the game and your in there base dont try to f***ing prolong it so you can bring in novas because you have a nova fetish or to destroy the rest of the base then the CC.  Just Destroy the CC and end the game so that person can go do what ever or join in another game.  No need to sit around and wait on you.

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2006, 11:43:48 PM »
Well Freeza, I dont think thats quite right either. I agree that once your enemy is crippled, final victory should come swiftly but I dont think applying general rules (or even suggesting them) to how a game should be ended is right either.

If Nova fetish is your thing, whatever. Just get it over with.

But making your nearly defeated enemy wait another few seconds isnt a good reason NOT to do it. Remember, we want people to feel comfortable here and not like theyre suffocated with odd unspoken rules that they may never learn until they screw up.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2006, 01:00:54 AM »
Just having some consideration for the other player and just ending the game with out having to do the whole OMG I PWNED YOU WITH NOVAS SO BAD.  When the base is already crippled.  Its one thing to nova/flare a base that is intact and fuction and you sneak them in and kill all.  But its another to have them wait for you to get novas down there when you have units that could have already finish the job.  

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2006, 02:17:10 PM »
Or a more extreme example where they have to shoot at the base with lasers and kill every building and unit saving the CC for last.

Just seems kinda dumb.

---

The other thing I saw lately is the usual stuff about missiling. It seems lately, that anytime players use missiles everyone jumps on them for that.

Like Highlander basically said already, take control of the game situation. Prevent them from building a spaceport, and then you don't have to worry about the missiles.

If you set a high Attack Mark like 1000 then don't be surprised if someone builds 10 spaceports. Just don't jump on the player because they used missiles (and don't complain that the missile is a 'cheat' or that it needs to be removed from the game or anything like that).

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2006, 03:00:05 PM »
Last nights game was interesting Both sides in a 3v3 were using missiles atleast 4 each.  The missiles were launched in a moderate speed so there not end to end missiles coming down from the heavens.  But after the game both sides were blaming each other.  One side is well you had missiles so i needed more.  The other side had missiles to protect and help with attacks.  All the missiling that happened in that game happened the way it should have.  It wasnt like 6 missiles all launched at once and spread out over a base.  before adlair left he launched his missiles on arklons base but he did that as a part gift lol he had to go.  Its one thing to have multipul missiles its another to launch them end on end.

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2006, 09:35:55 PM »
Well this is getting into more of the "sportsmanship" area and I think it requires 2 things:

1) People need to grow up. When you lose, take it like a man and thank the winner for a good game. If you know youre dead and its only a matter of waiting til the nova lynx gets to your cc, have some light discussion about the game and maybe talk about how to strengthen your strategy for next time.

2) Treat others how you want to be treated in a game. Dont get known for being "the guy who always spams people til they quit the game" and then people will be less likely to do it to your or someone else out of spite.

As a third rule, I think nobody should leave the game angry. If someone does something to piss you off, ignore it and keep playing. If the game is over and youre angry because you lost, get over it and try to discuss how to do better next time. Dont piss people off until/so they leave the game. People should not finish a match pissed at someone. Everyone should be saying "gg" in IRC when theyre done.

Offline lordly_dragon

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« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2006, 10:34:21 PM »
Discuss the rule before starting the game is vital. I, for example, play no rule because it is how the game is I live with it. In many other RTS game people don't bother to live until their last breath...you know when your death you can stay, but sometimes you can leave (thus make more time to make another game and is more manner).

About missile like X said (dont remember sorry). If they got missile. It is because of A) rule (then dont complain...like X said) or B) you are just too passive and let him expand everywhere. You might have been everytime on minority so you couldn't act...well practice your building order and your macro skill so you can one day change the pressure to the other side.

I am gladly offering for basic micro/macro tutoring to be more efficient in combat for those who are REALLY new to the game (just drop  a PM). Playing on a high level in warcraft 3 I know how rts work a bit.  

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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2006, 11:16:06 PM »
that is what i am saying tho they have no units no vec facs just end the game with killing the CC dont make people wait so you can flare/nova them.  

As for the missiles they usually occure in the long mark game.  nothing you can do about it even more so when you have a AM mark lol.  not all games are rush games.

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2006, 02:44:36 AM »
Just check out one of the old clan websites. Most of them had rules set down for their members on how to behave and interact within the game..

Gathered a few points from a few old clan sites:


- No breaking mark or rules of engagement.
- Treat all individual players with respect (even rivals).
- Grounds for quitting:
        2.1.  Situation that must be attended to.
        2.2.  Majority vote allowing you to quit.
        2.3.  Opponent refuses to destroy your Command Center in a bleak game.

Nobody likes quitters.  2.3 is referring to players who are wasting other player's time.  Though this is a judgement call, any complaints of unnecessary quitting will be investigated.
- Absolutely no 'trash talking.'
- Members associated with another clan who is at war will not display hostilities with Birds of Prey in the title or on their profile.


- Never quit a game even if you are losing.
This includes taking down your Command Center with a ConVec.
his includes destroying your Command Center with your own weapons.
This includes self destructing your vehicles next to your own Command Center in a attempt to blow it up.

- Be a good sport.
Do not insult someone because they beat you.
Do not insult someone because they are better than you.
Do not insult someone because they used a "cheep" shot to kill you e.g. your opponent used a starflare to destroy your Advanced Lab.

- Don't drop anyone before 60 seconds (there is a window that appears giving the time since contact was lost and also displays who dropped who despite what people may think).

- Don't swear excessively online.
Some mild swearing is allowed but don't get carried away.


- No quitting a game unless the game has been approved to be restarted. Never are you to quit a game unless the other persons in the game agree to a restart.

- No breaking mark or rules of engagement. This is to eliminate all the foul, dishonorable, and unfair players out there. The player that is head of the game is the captain...You must abide by all his/her rules. We want to be an organization who if welcomed by all for good gaming.

 
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

Old player still playing. Visit Spark for a game of Outpost 2

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2006, 06:30:05 AM »
I think those are some rules we should consider for OPU. Although, breeding rule nazis isnt something we want to do either. Again, this is all based on good-faith sportsmanship.

Responsibility doesnt just mean watching your actions, but the actions of others - even people you call your friends. We need to keep an eye on eachother and check them (and ourselves) when they slip. This will keep everyone on good terms and hopefully garner more trust. So if someone sends you a PM calling you on a slip of protocol, dont get pissed. Just take the advice with the knowledge youll probably end up doing someone else the same service. I think we need to establish a sense of trust at OPU that has been waning.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2006, 06:33:04 AM by dm-horus »

Offline lordly_dragon

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« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2006, 10:27:23 AM »
I wonder why it was forbid to leave when you KNEW that you were doomed...this is IMO aa waste of time  :huh: care to explain a bit the why please?  :blush:

Otherwise those rules make sence  

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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2006, 11:48:14 AM »
I dont like that approved quitting.  because when it comes down to it most people that want to flare the base will just be like we all vote no you cant.  if some one has to go they dont need to wait for a vote.  If I am going to quit ill do it I wont wait for a damn vote its just a game.

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2006, 04:57:26 PM »
Quote
I wonder why it was forbid to leave when you KNEW that you were doomed...this is IMO aa waste of time  :huh: care to explain a bit the why please?  :blush:

 
Let's say you have played a 1 hour long, really intense and even game, vs a good player.

As final stroke of one of your attacks, you manage to destroy something of importance, that spells "doom" in the long run for your opponent. So instead of giving you a fight for it, or try to make the best of it, your opponent just says: "sorry gotta [Insert worst excuse ever]. Bye." Then just quits the game and goes offline on IRC.


I think that would make most people kinda pissed, since they really earned that win.




On a sidenote, those rules shouldn't be too hard to abide by, since the mjority of the thousands of players who have ever played OP2, managed to do it before you. (Mod's could only be called in if people didn't behave or abide by the official rules of WON)
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

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Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2006, 10:25:43 PM »
yeah i think its more or less an honor system type thing. if youre cool and play fair, people will play you. if not people will think you suck and stop playing with you.

Offline CK9

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A Theory Less Considered
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2006, 03:19:52 AM »
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Last time I checked, CK9 hasnt patched OP2 or done anything for the VPN. If the programer's service is so poor, why not fix the problems yourself?

As I said before, if I could I would.  I have tried teaching myself the programming languages before, and I still don't know s*** about programming.  However, through the luck of coincidence, a programming class is required for my major, which I will be taking this spring if everything works out right.

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Comments like these that help nobody. "PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!" Do you think anyone would want to code for someone if they told them that?

Who said anything about people coding for me?  The phrase served it's purpose: it caught people's attention.  We got a 1 man team working on 1 OP3 project, and a team that isn't telling us s*** on another.  If they worked together on a single project, each person working specifically on what they are best at and getting it done, we'd have a working demo at the least by now.  (I always thought knux and garret should have been working together on a project rather than workingon two different ones, but knux left before I got up the balls to start speaking up in here).

and don't get me wrong horus, I have a lot of respect for you.  I may think you act like an absolute ass at times, but you have shown (in my eyes at least) that you know what needsto be done and are willing to take the needed steps yourself if neccessary.

(and yes, I know, the convo has moved pass this, but I've been bussy for a while and am not about to let it go by without sharing my views)
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names