Author Topic: Gas Prices/hurricane  (Read 3494 times)

Offline Oprime

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« on: September 03, 2005, 07:30:27 PM »
Hmmm, though I know how republican this forum is and all but, come on president bush sucks big jobs and all you know it. >.> anyway what do you guys think of how the president is running the country at the moment?

Just for starters here are couple things that people need to know
- President had 10 days to act before hurricane hit
- President had 3 days and didn't do anything after the hurricane hit
- President only gave 10 billion in relief aid (hmmm, we've paid well over 140 billion in Iraq)
- Iraq ... just makes me laugh. At this rate we are never leaving that place (daft anyone)
- Petroleum oil.... Please see above (wasn't Iraqs oil suppose to lower gas prices not raise them. Im not relating it to the recent gas prices but, to the prices before the hurricane).
- Troops should've been in the area before the hurricane hit to prevent ... Iraq type looting.  
 
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Offline Stormy

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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 08:42:09 PM »
True... but I bet he had a bunch of other things on his mind...  
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2005, 04:14:31 AM »
this will realy bring home to the people the cost of the iraq war. all the heavy equment like genrtors etc r in iraq and there needed for this disaster as well as many troops.

they said evac but there was no plan and no way for poor etc people to get out.

blah blah, its apualing, apprantly human life aint the most importiant thing.

oil prices, well here in uk we pay 5 times what you pay in the usa, lots of tax.

Offline Mez

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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2005, 07:07:17 AM »
and its estimated that oil prices are gonna hit 1 per litre by the end of this week if not next week!

but whos to know that there was gonna b a huricane.

If all the generators were shipped to iraq, y wernt new ones made?

Surely the ppl in charge would know that the generators wouldn't come back.

However the problem is that there is no oil in that area to run generators! all the refinerys have been shut down or are now in pieces

Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2005, 05:27:02 AM »
also the disaster agency sent drugs to combat a chemical terror attack to the area, which are of chorse useless. not ones to help people. how dam surreal.

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2005, 01:20:25 PM »
Mezza, anybody with a right mind could easily have foreseen this happening some time in the future.

Each year you have quite a few hurricane hitting the Mexican gulf, and the american coast. Simply said, it was just a matter of time before a big one hit a major city.


I can't remember who exatly it was who pointed this out, but it was a German goverment official who noted America's refusal to sign the Kyoto Agreement(Don't know what's it called in English, but it's supposed to make the signers(countries) reduce their CO2 wastes).  Nice point to make..

Guess I don't have to explain how CO2 play a part in global upwarming, and that again causes extreme weather.

 
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Offline Mez

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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2005, 09:06:56 AM »
yep its called the kyoto agreement everywhere!


Ye most disasters are just enevitable.  e.g. a huge earth quake caused by the san andreas fault will happen some day.

Ye oil price hav risen, ye it would happen due to shortage or disaster some day. but our our has like 400% tax on it or something stupid like that

of the 1, 80p is gov tax 20p is the profits and cost of the oil its self!

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2005, 09:42:47 AM »
First of all the war on what ever it is. Is only happening because Bush wanted a war just like his daddy had.  Just vanity.  Bush slowed up afterwards and we all saw the s*** on the news with these people that were all cleaned up, Nothing but a photo OP.  He would never have touched any one that wasnt clean.  Also you have to remember logistics after a hurricane so bad it takes some time to get the supply that were coming from california.  Yes the Hurricane aftermath is bad but At least its getting fixed.  How ever the president isnt the only one that gives order for the military he is the one that gets them there funding for sand bags and such.  Many people did leave the City because of the hurricanes approach but a alot of people stayed because they think they can "Ride it out" in some metal reasoning that they are superior to nature.  Ya gas prices are going up they are higher every where.  I would also like to point out dont think of the people that are seemingly left by the wayside as a racism towards black thing.  Its mostly racism against poor people that have no where else to go and have nothing.  Just seems to be toward blacks because New orleans is what like 50-60% black people.  Very true they could have done more but remember it is the US government If its being done right some where its wasnt done by the US government.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2005, 12:37:47 PM »
Actually, since the iraq war began I always had the feeling that bush didnt care about the people, just about his own profits and gains.

And that has proven itself with his poor response to the hurricane.

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2005, 01:40:35 PM »
What has generally been pointed out here in Norway about Bush's polotical lines, is that he spends much more on war/hostilites and helps out the lready rich people, rather than looking within his own state and solve the problems allready there.

If you look through history, leadership like this has usually led to domestic troubles/eventual downfall of the state in question.
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Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2005, 02:54:06 PM »
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there, he does whatever to care for his rich 'oil buddies'

Thankfully in the US presidents only have a maximum of 2 terms (4 years per term) so it's not like he's in power indefinitely.

However, if he gets these people into supreme court with his political ideals, it could haunt us for a long time to come....

Offline CK9

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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2005, 02:59:24 PM »
actually, hacker, the max is 2 and a half, but only if you are the vice president and the president is unable to fulfill his/her duities with 2 years left in the term
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Offline OP2Patriot

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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2005, 04:15:36 PM »
Folks, here is the truth about what happened:

New Orleans had a PLAN for Hurricanes category 4 and up. It was an evacuation plan. Basically, they use all government vehicles in the city, school buses and the like to get as many as they could out of the city. The plan was obviously not implemented by the City of New Orleans like it should have been. Only the mayor could have implented the plan, he DID NOT do it. Days later, he is blaming Bush.

 Here are some facts everyone doesn't seem to be focusing on:

1) We did not expect this to happen. A lot of people thought this would be a 12-hour event and things would go back to normal. Who would have known for sure a levy would break? This was unexpected.

2) FEMA is NOT a first-response organization! That is a common media misconception.

3) Bush is not the entire federal government!!! As I said earlier, no one could have known for sure this would happen, and like 9/11, there is no way something would have been done beforehand because it was not really expected to happen anytime soon.

4) Here in Georgia, we can also watch Spanish news. (We can't understand what they say, but we can see what they show) It is amazing the difference in slant. English news, you see tons of black guys and little relief coming. Reporters naturally try to make the most of a situation or more out of it than what it is. (Don't get me wrong, the whole thing was a huge tragedy) When I watched the Spanish news, they showed lots of shots of all the relief work that is going on, from watching the news, you would have no idea how big the effort is going on in New Orleans. It is amazing that they have got so much done in what early on people speculated would take two times longer. Also, the Spanish news showed a lot more white people. The media is DELIBERATELY trying to make this look like it is a lot of black people dying, but there are also lots of white people too.

5) In the plan I mentioned earlier, it stressed that people should make their own evacuation plans, because there was no way New Orleans could evacuate everyone. What you have is a Democrat city with lots of people who rely on government rather than themselves. Lots of people sat waiting for the government to get them instead of trying to do something themselves because they were used to it. This is the ultimate failure of the entitlement society.

6) The governor of Louisiana did get a call from Bush early on, Bush offered assistance, AND THE GOVERNOR SAID NOT NOW. 24 hours later, she FINALLY asks for federal aid. Folks, a lot of people don't understand how the government is supposed to work. The federal government was never intended to solve every single problem. It is initially (emphasis on initially) the responsibility of the local and state government to respond to a crisis. Federal aid CANNOT be given until it is ASKED for. Think of it like this: What if you were playing OP2 multi and someone took your computer and started playing for you. It is best that the person should not take over unless you ask for that person to take over.

Final Paragraph: In this age, the information age, we are used to getting things done fast. We have fast food, microwaves, high speed internet, and all other things that get things done faster. We are spoiled with being used to a lot of things getting done fast. I do admit, I am dissapointed that the relief has not gone faster in New Orleans. In this day and age, one value that is becoming more absent from our culture is the value of patience.



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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2005, 07:04:37 PM »
wow, very concise and concreate argument, I congratulate you
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Offline Stormy

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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2005, 07:22:46 PM »
VERY nice argument Patriot!  
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Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2005, 07:06:13 AM »
I still believe that Bush is an idiot but I don't think it has any affect on what has happened down in New Orleans. Patriot has too many good points and 5 is the one that sticks out in my mind the most.

People EVERYWHERE rely on the Federal Government to do everything for them and then when nothing happens they get pissed. It's called a 'government for the people by the people' not because the government is supposed to do everything for it's 'citizens' but because the 'citizens' are supposed to do things for eachother.

In this 'modern' society of ours, we have forgotten where our values truelly lie and what this country has been built on. I don't personally like Bush and I didn't vote for him and that's my choice. That said, it's still my job to take care of myself and to bother my local government, not complain about Bush and his administration (although I think that we need to stop policing the world and start looking more inward). It is NOBODY else's job or obligation (unless I'm a clear threat to myself) to take care of me.

The Federal Government has an obligation to protect its people. But protect is very different than Spoon Feeding. It seems that a new myth has everybody believing that they 'deserve' to be spoonfed because 'it's their right'. Well, I've got news for everybody. Human rights say simply that everybody is free to do what they will and that mistreatment is unlawful. That's it. Human rights do not say that the government has to baby everybody. And it's unfathomable that people would continue to believe that they have a 'right' to be babied.

So that's where I stand. Bush is an ass. The country is full of morons. And the media is far from the truth.

If I had my choice, I would just move to mars. But I don't have the 5 billion it would take to produce the rocket/fuel as well as whatever structures I would need to survive. So I just suck it up and deal. Life's hard but if you focus on that you'll miss all the rewards.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 07:06:47 AM by leeor_net »
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Offline coolzero

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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2005, 07:50:41 AM »
k like normal i am too boored to read the hole post and all replayes so ill just keep it simple how i think about it ....

for 1 thing


BUSH SUCKS...... whel that explains how i think but above all
MORE THEN HALTH OF THE AMERICAN PPL SUCKS ..... cous they voted bush ( dont know this for sure cous there r storys that he wasnt fairly elected but if he was then what i just said is true)

then the horicane ... yes they could have thought up that there would be problems and have help ready before it hit ...  
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Offline OP2Patriot

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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2005, 11:30:48 AM »
Quote
BUSH SUCKS...... whel that explains how i think but above all

Bush isn't the federal government and it is not the responsibility of the federal government to be the first response to catesprophes. They can only come in if asked.

Even though I am a conservative, it doesn't mean I am obliged to support Bush on everything. There are a few things he is too moderate on. When it comes to this nation's security, which is the chief mandate of our government, there is no other person I would trust more than Bush. We debate over and over how Kerry and other presidential candidates and how they would be doing, but that should be for another thread and digresses from the topic at hand.

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MORE THEN HALTH OF THE AMERICAN PPL SUCKS ..... cous they voted bush ( dont know this for sure cous there r storys that he wasnt fairly elected but if he was then what i just said is true)
... well, if you can't win on ideology then you try to demonize the support? Unfair election conspiracy theories are only supported by the left wing kooks that are in the process of overruning the Democratic party. The best way to know these allegations are not true is to see the media as done hardly anything to make a big deal out of it. The mainstream media tried everything, lies, deceptions, you name it, to try to turn public opinion against Bush in the election of 2004. They still try to discredit him, as observed by what they show on the news and who commentates on the news. (I digress, discussion of the media is for a whole other thread, and I've got tons to say about that)

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then the horicane ... yes they could have thought up that there would be problems and have help ready before it hit ...
Ok, hurricanes happen, it is forseeable one will hit New Orleans. Why don't we just send FEMA over to California and have them camp out there to be ready when the big earthquake finally comes? There was no way we could have known for sure the levy would have broke.

Here is some information I came upon today: The federal government gave Louisiana money to spend on upgrading the levies in New Orleans in 1998. What happened? It was spent on other things.

There are many different levels of government. The levels of government which should be and are most capable of handling crisises first chance they get is the LOCAL and STATE governments. I sure wish things were going faster, however, before you put all the blame on the federal government, you need to know of how the local and state governments are MORE responsible.



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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2005, 06:04:17 PM »
Yes there are many different department of the government.  A problem with them all is they dont communicate to each other.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2005, 06:52:34 PM »
All levels of government are responsible for the problem really... this goes from the local gov't to the federal.

And actually, yes, government organizations should be ready for something to happen... And you don't need 'prompting' by having the levee break.. Come on, its a city below sea level, you are plain stupid if you don't think a hurricane will cause some major problems for it.

As for Bush and conservatism... well, I feel many of the republicans lately are moving toward caring less about the people of the US and more toward caring about other things.... Case in point how Bush took several days to get to New Orleans... Other disasters, the president is usually there the day of the disaster or the next day.

I think centrism is the best policy for the government, both sides of the table get addressed... I feel the democrats are wrong on some things like abortion, gay rights, etc but have a lot of good ideas for some other things.. Ideally one side would balance the other but we all know this will happen when hell freezes over...
I won't go on since this is straying too far from the topic however.

Offline OP2Patriot

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« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2005, 07:10:40 PM »
Sorry for out of order quoting...

Quote
Case in point how Bush took several days to get to New Orleans

*points at point 6 in an earlier post* The federal government wasn't meant to be a quick response agency to what the local and state government had written up A PLAN for. A plan they never executed, which they were supposed to execute. And Bush is not the federal government. He is only the head of the executive branch. Doing the type of quick response you seem to be demanding would be overstepping the authority of state and local government.

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I feel the democrats are wrong on some things like abortion, gay rights, etc but have a lot of good ideas for some other things
Like what? Centrism is not the answer. Being in the middle does not necessarily make someone right.

Quote
government organizations should be ready for something to happen

They were supposed to be. The state and local organization had a plan. They did not implement it before the hurricane.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 07:11:09 PM by OP2Patriot »



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Offline CK9

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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2005, 12:10:01 AM »
okay, this is sorta off topic, but I have to say something.  I keep seeing one thing being repeated multipletimes in here, "Bush sucks"

1) If you think you can do a better job, run for president.  If not, then shut up.  You cannot comment on something that you have NO experience in.  And school/club governments don't count, 'cause thy do not face the same issues

2) He obviously doesn't suck that much if he made it into office twice in a row, the second time without the need of a recount.  I know the first item in the Bill of Rights states we have freedom of speech, but some people take it way too far.

3) If your opinion is formed based on what others tell you (such as friends, relatives, strangers, the media) rather than on your own observation and experience, you have no foundation on which to build and might as well be saying you invented the question mark.  As phil stated earlier, American news media blows things out of proportion.  I remember seeing a Brittish news station and a Canadian one before (in England, police don't even carry guns, and in Canada the only Murder that the police had on record was by an American who crossed the border drunk (and yes, Canadians are gun enthusiests)) and neither news station was even close to American news media.  They had hard evidence and told the stories in a calm manner.  The other day, I was watching the news out of boredom and counted 8 times that the reporter tied to get the proffessional he was talking to to say something that would get people afraid.  Each time it failed, he had a disappointed look on his face.

Final message:
  You are entitled to your opinion, but if you are going to be sharing it, make sure you actually have something to base it on.
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2005, 01:00:11 PM »
damn strait!!
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Offline thablkpanda

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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2005, 05:49:24 PM »
Ha..

Panda has to make a re-introduction for this.

Firstly - Pointed at the second to last poster -

I'm sure quite a few of us COULD do better than our current president in office. However none of us (ok one that I know of) are 35 years old, and can legally run for president.

We're basing our prior accuasations on the mistakes he's made in the past. When you're messing around with a country, you can't afford to make mistakes, or 'screw up' every now and then. No chances.

Our current moronic president got re-elected because of an influx of individuals wishing to end this war. Not because he did a good job the first time. And if you do recall by the margin that he won? And recounts don't mean crap, floridians are slow.

This hurricane destroyed me economically. Fuel refieries in the south were obliterated, and seeing as I had a few thousand in such refineries, when they were  devastated, I felt it. I had three thousand in them, and now it's worth $125. And dropping constantly. Don't complain about gas when my father had $10k invested in the oil sector that he said is now about $1.2k. Thank all things holy that this isn't money we NEEDED, yet it's money noneteless. Pair that with the fact that our company now almost increased it's travel costs by .33 precent, and our clientel' are feeling it in the checkbook. Pair all THAT with the fact that when people don't want to pay you, they won't. And they'll wait for me to take legal action. Which means money in legal fees.

Yeah, sure, big WOOP, people died in Lousiana, that's going to happen. Name one historically relevant disaster that didn't kill anyone. Whether it's 12 people, or 2000, they died. But economically this will prove to be one of the most influential disasters of the decade. easily.

Not to mention the gas prices that WILL remain this high. NO doubt in my mind. Supply and demand is in effect here. In a different sense. We demand more, and the supply is low,  then prices are raised. When homeostasis resumes, and the prices per barrel drop, retailers will NOT drop their priceses to fit. What's the point? When they can keep making cash at $3~ a gallon, why drop it to where its' supposed to be?

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Offline OP2Patriot

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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 07:02:39 AM »
Quote
Our current moronic president got re-elected because of an influx of individuals wishing to end this war. Not because he did a good job the first time. And if you do recall by the margin that he won? And recounts don't mean crap, floridians are slow.
The reason I believe he was elected because there was no better choice. John Kerry, we never really were completely sure where he standed unless you look at his overly liberal record. Any third party candidate if elected president would have been a lame horse and no party would be keen on cooperating with him. Bush would get more done that he campaigned for if the Democratic party wasn't so hostile and the moderate Republicans were such wimps.

Quote
Not to mention the gas prices that WILL remain this high.
I don't doubt you there. The gas companies now know they can get away with charging that much. Our Republican governor in the state of Georgia did a stupid thing, he froze prices. Had he not done that, we'd have more gas available here. Ultimately, the high gas prices and our dependence on Middle East oil is because a bunch of environmentalists don't want us drilling the icy tundra of Alaska or drilling of the shoreline of California.



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