Author Topic: Outpost: Genesis Info Leak  (Read 29724 times)

Offline CK9

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Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #225 on: October 18, 2005, 11:06:04 AM »
it means what it says.  The OP2 movie sequences are not in the download version, and someone used them for an argument, something I've been wait for for a while :P
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #226 on: October 18, 2005, 11:28:47 AM »
All the videos and music from outpost 2 are on the site for download.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #227 on: October 18, 2005, 12:02:00 PM »
Hmmm OP3 is OP3 but is it about the other ship that left earth due to evidence you provided.  There for it would not be a continuation (extenstion as i put it) of the op2 story but a story that is paralle to it.  Its still OP3 because its not new terra and its not like op1 where you have to save earth.

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #228 on: October 18, 2005, 07:31:11 PM »
Well, Freeza, I guess that's a reasonable deduction but that's not quite the path that we've taken.

I'll leave it at that for now because I need to finish the new version of the outline soon.
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Offline Axalon

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« Reply #229 on: October 18, 2005, 10:03:52 PM »
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However, Freeza has posed a potential interpretation. The Savant computers will be severly hampered without it's protein cores. However, microbes are made of various compounds, including proteins. So the microbes could potentially be used to bridge certain gaps. This not only explains the "merging" of the computer with the microbe but also allows for other possibilities.

I think that is what the novella suggested (at least, my interpretation of it). I am aware that the blight is a terraforming microbe gone bad, but it is never explained how it does its work. And the novella conjectured that the Savants in the Eden Advanced Lab may have mingled with the Blight (I think in the novella it stated they detected the same proteins in the Blight that are found in Savants). I know it does sound far-fetched, but maybe the Blight is evolving by absorbing the boptronic portions of the Savants (similar to how organelles developed in cells, by absorption of smaller cells and using them to power the larger cell [mitochondrion]). We'll see how that turns out with a little more reearch into it.

And as for me having stated that I don't mean to flame anyone, even though I (and you) thought that there wasn't really any aggression, I've learned that some people on other communities *cough*apple.slashdot.org*cough* are a bit touchy and may misinterpret things, so I like to be on the safe side.

Anyway, back on topic. I'm actually more concerned on the engine development than the story at this point in time. With a developed story, but no engine, there's no game, just an interesting novella. With a complete engine, you have a game of sorts, and a shell of a game is better than no game at all. Besides, there are more free-thinkers than programmers (me knowing only simple console C++ [I still don't get pointers]), therefore the story is overall less of a headache than debugging a full 3d engine. In other words, story == lower priority for the time being.

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #230 on: October 19, 2005, 11:09:26 AM »
The blight microbe is as dangerous as it is because it was developed to break down the hydrogen bonds within certain compounds. It's able to be so specific because it was genetically engineered. This actually was stated in the Eden Novella.

Also, the research into the 'Blight' microbe stems from the terraforming research form OUTPOST. In order to get Terraforming technology, a genetically altered terraforming microbe needed to be researched (extensively at that) before anything else really could be accomplished (e.g., the necessary facilities to make the process safe).

Anyway, in essence, the microbe really isn't absorbing the bio-components of the savants, it's breaking them down and using certain molecular compunds for food (what they are I couldn't tell you). So it wouldn't really end up becoming sentient like the Savant. Basically you'd have a big biological mess where the protien cores for the Savant's used to be.

However, I can see that it is this 'mess' that makes it possible for the microbes to coincidentally form the necessary bridges for the Savant's reasoning facilities to come back online to some sort of degree.

Good initial argument though! :D
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #231 on: October 19, 2005, 11:34:48 AM »
Eithere way you look at it the savants and microbes appear to be linked to gether in making the savants more dangerous or more anti social.  The microbes would not blend with the savants but just make them loss some of the humanity or ability to think correctly.

But I don think there is going to be a blight on "BOB" is there

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #232 on: October 21, 2005, 08:48:16 AM »
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The microbes would not blend with the savants but just make them loss some of the humanity or ability to think correctly.

That is exactly right.  And I like the "Lose their humanit" bit because that pretty much works.

As far as the blight on Bob, you're right. The Blight doesn't make an entrance on Bob.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #233 on: October 21, 2005, 11:00:49 AM »
Now when placing buildings in OP3 are you going to have the buildings to just point in one direction like they are in OP2 or is there going to be a option to point them north south east west?

And will the Tubes run in straight lines and use right angles.

Offline DragonLord

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« Reply #234 on: October 21, 2005, 05:33:37 PM »
heh maybe we should seperate the theological debate into a new thread? :D

can't resist the temptation:

from plymouth 12:
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The Link was shattered before conclusive results were generated, but before that, we discovered that the Blight provided a medium into which our biological components could be merged and endlessly replicated. The Savants there would be destroyed, but part of their being was incorporated into the Blight's biomass, where it could replicate through the deep rocks, organize anew, and be reborn.
yes I know it seems impossible that AIs would merge with some stupid microbe but this is science fiction, it has to be unreal in parts. Oh and they don't merge, the microbes just form a nice medium, like plants on our world provide a medium for us to life in (oxygen and energy)

Freeza's interpretation won't work because this little snippet from the novella:
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The pod looked fragile, but Frost assured her it would be heat-shielded enough to preserve the Savant's biological components during reentry. Its mechanical parts would be destroyed on impact, but that was of no concern.
so it's the biological parts that they need to survive, not the biological parts (they are just for interfacing with the other systems I bet.)

Links to the last 2 chapters of the plymouth storyline: they explain it all there:Plymouth 12    Plymouth epilogue
oh and what's with all the evil savants stuff? need another enemy or something? :D
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 05:36:37 PM by DragonLord »

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #235 on: October 21, 2005, 05:57:03 PM »
evil savants was just ideas

Offline Stormy

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« Reply #236 on: October 21, 2005, 07:20:33 PM »
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From MPF.avi (Plymouth ending cinematic)

Frost (Savant): [after the launch thing] "We remain behind, the last tennants of a world no longer fit for human habitation. Our biological computing elements will melt with the microbe and BECOME ONE WITH IT. The planet itself will become one mind, with vast powers of thought. As you journey to your new world, we will dream of you, our creators, dream for you, and send you those dreams as our gift, blueprints for a new world of wonders. And though our voice will fade with time, know that when you look into the sky, we will always be here, and you will always be in our thoughts."

I don't want to flame you or anything, but unless your story outline completely ignores the premise of the Plymouth story arc, you might want to rethink your outline.

(However, if it does, and you solely focus on, say, the Eden story arc, which IMO wouldn't be a wise choice, please disregard my arguments.)

Again, I'm not trying to flame anybody, I'm just arguing my point.

-----------------------------------------------

Oh and Freeza, I found out why they didn't go to Mars. According to the OP1 intro (cheesy music and all), they feared of other potential meteorite impacts on other planets, so they searched beyond the solar system. Sorry, no direct quote this time...yet.
I know what you were saying, I kept telling the other people this, and we somewhat got it incorperated. So, don't worry about stressing that; I've already stressed it enough. Yes it says the planet itself will become one mind with vast powers of thought, but... Heh, what if the savant telling this is wrong! It's reasoning elements were destroyed to an extent.

Lol, in a sense this is about both the eden and plymouth stories together :heh:

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Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #237 on: November 07, 2005, 08:00:02 PM »
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Yes it says the planet itself will become one mind with vast powers of thought
That depends on how it's interpreted. I've already stated my piece above and find no reason to repeat it now.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #238 on: November 14, 2005, 03:20:43 PM »
OMG i thought we were over this whole savant thing lol.  I think its pretty much pointless to worry about the savants of op2.  Just for the fact that the only tie to op2 is saving humanity and leaving earth for a new home and what not lol.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #239 on: November 15, 2005, 08:07:44 PM »
voice will fade with time, well if we think, what would their voice be? the radio transmitter left on new terra

now were talking about intersteller distances here, so of corse the radio signal would degrade over the vast distance, plus degradation in the transmitter, even though its hardened its systems can not last forever

 the proteen cores in the microbe might be able to interface with the transmitter (it was designed by savants so it would know how to do it, you guys forget, those computers are thousands of times smarter than us) but they would not be able to change the metabolic state of the microbe, so it would continue to comsume, just like we can manipulate our cells (ie makeing muscle cells expand and contract) but we cant change their matabilism

frost says that their biological computeing elements will meld with the microbe and become one with it, their biological computing elements are what make the savant computer savant, the rest is mostly perifial and sustanance for the bio elements

like I stated before, the savants are way smarter than us, and when they form the link (like they did when they designed the microbe) they would know what happoned to their bio elements inside the microbe, so when the frost says that the planet will become a vast computer, I dont see any reasion why anyone would deny it

even if it dosnt make logical sence, we can still use the same reasion that we did for the mars landing reasion

thats the outpost 2 story, wether you like it or not, deal with it

also, this may have some implacations with op3, even though the blight may not directly be involved with the game, having a planet sized computer continuelly send radio signals to you would defonatly help with any reashurch that may be needed, now later in the game you would get less of that otherwordly help, because of the transmitter dyeing, and mabe the soler systems becomeing farther from eachother on the glatic plane

I dont know, its sci fi, so do whatever the hell you want
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #240 on: November 18, 2005, 03:50:51 PM »
OMG LETS STOP THIS.
To much repeating ourselves and running in circles.

As far as I know there is no tie to the savant and blight of new terra.  In fact I believe there not in the same system.  There for no Blight Savant combo will contact the colony of "BOB".  there its over lets all have some cake :).

Now I have a Question The ship the left (the OP3 ship) Did it go in the same direction of the op2 ship or did it go else where to enhance its chances of humanity surviving.  I beleive the the spliting of the directions of the ships would be more resonable to save humanity.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #241 on: November 18, 2005, 03:54:05 PM »
what do you mean a different direction?

the ship went in the direction in wich its sensors determioned that they would have the best probility of finding an earth like planet

btw, if you read the noliva, you would know that there is a tie, thats the point that York was makeing, but your right lets move on
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Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #242 on: November 19, 2005, 06:48:06 PM »
Question all, did the OP3 ship from New Terra have a name (I don't remember one)? If not, would Conestoga II be suitable?

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Now I have a Question The ship the left (the OP3 ship) Did it go in the same direction of the op2 ship or did it go else where to enhance its chances of humanity surviving. I beleive the the spliting of the directions of the ships would be more resonable to save humanity.
Um... I'm not sure how to answer this one because I'm not exactly sure what the question is.

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the ship went in the direction in wich its sensors determioned that they would have the best probility of finding an earth like planet.

It would be highly unlikely and very improbably to find an Earth-like planet. That was the whole premise behind the OUTPOST series. So they would, instead of looking for an earth-like planet, they would be more apt to look for mildly hostile planet to land on and then work with what they've got. Dynamix kinda took OUTPOST and ran with it a bit. I, along with stormy, TH300 and Zanco have decided to bring OUTPOST 3 back toward what the original game's story was (while not at all forgetting about OP2's story and remaining in the RTS genre) which is also why we've decided that Conestoga II was not in search of an Earth-like planet. Keep in mind that it can take hundreds of years to travel to a star, even one that's nearby and the original Conestoga was built around the year 2045ad. OP2's scientists did not come up with a faster-than-light alternative so the passengers aboard Conestoga II will also be in the same predicament.

I'll be so bold as to state that there is a particular reason why Conestoga II (if that's the name we decide to run with) landed on 'Bob'.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 07:23:49 PM by leeor_net »
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #243 on: November 19, 2005, 06:52:52 PM »
well of corse they arnt going to land on an earth like planet, but when it was launched they were optamistic and they were looking for one, it even states that in the post reshurch summery for sensor systems

you guys should really read every nook an crany of op2, or else there will be diviations in story
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Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #244 on: November 19, 2005, 07:29:28 PM »
Dynamix is the one that deviated from the story. I explained above that OP3 will rely heavily on the stories from both OP2 AND OUTPOST. It seems that A LOT of people forget about OUTPOST.

So the sensors for looking for Earth-like planets is a nice touch but is, in essence, a useless feature as it's highly unlikely that a planet like that will be found. The colony ships are launched to a particular star system. They don't drift between them looking for the right planet. There's only enough fuel for one trip and that's it. If you made a mistake, you're screwed.

Dynamix forgot that but I didn't and I would hope that other people would agree with me on this one. Granted, the game is sci-fi but it's supposed to be based on science fact. We do not have the capacity to put people into suspended animation and the people aboard Conestoga were not in suspended animation: they were in a state of 'slow sleep' which is close but not the same.

Conestoga II was based upon the designs of Conestoga... there's no way they would have been able to design a propulsion system for Conestoga II that would enable them to drift from star system to star system within 100 years. There are  A LOT of inconsistencies in that part of the story for OUTPOST 2.

While OP3 may not be 'perfect' to some people, you also need to understand that OUTPOST 2 was not perfect either and Dynamix introduced a lot of problems. I won't go into detail about them right now because it's beyond the scope of this reply and even this thread but I would be happy to send you an e-mail with all of the inconsistencies introduced in OUTPOST 2.
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Offline zigzagjoe

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« Reply #245 on: November 20, 2005, 02:00:02 PM »
i would have to say this is a major rtfm moment here. easiest thing to do is take wt the novela and movies says as gospel and leave it at that.

 i'm half tempted to move this to the debate forum at this rate...

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #246 on: November 20, 2005, 08:13:04 PM »
I think you have a good point.

I'll put it this way: Our minds are essentially made up and the story has been outlined. There will be no major changes to that outline. It's not a matter of refining it and I as well as the rest of the team will be calling on everybody here to help with the refinement process.

Of course, if there's something terribly terribly wrong than by all means, say something about it. What we want to accomplish is an awesome story to back up an awesome game. That's our goal and I want to make sure that everyone is involved in that.
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