Author Topic: New Colony Game  (Read 13589 times)

Offline Leviathan

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New Colony Game
« on: January 27, 2005, 03:45:11 AM »
What do you want from a new single player Colony Game mission?
What sort of objectives? Similar to current ones or very differnt? or both?
Quick to complete or very long ?

And what idea's do people have for new Colony Games?
Post ideas.
We want to make a mission that everyone will enjoy.  

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2005, 07:29:40 AM »
1) Land Rush. I hate having my base preset for me.

2) Alternatives for base choices A) Good ore but hard to defend. B) Easy to defend but little ore etc..

3) Possibility of population goal alot higher than 600 ? Same with space, possibility of having to launch more colonists ?

4) Enemy bases is better than units just entering the map

 
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Offline Cctoide

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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2005, 10:28:01 AM »
Maybe a more "sandbox" style of play: plenty of resources, not-so-crappy morale, ability to attack whenever we feel like, and so on...
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Offline TH300

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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2005, 11:36:44 AM »
landrush and enemy base on map should be.

sandbox would be nice. ;)

If u don't make it sandbox, maybe make it so, that the player can win by reaching one of several possible objectives. I.e. either launch the starship or have a certain population. I would be careful with an onjective "eleminate the enemy", because that might be necassary to reach another objective.

A totally different idea is to make it a 2v2 with the human player having one allie, either an ai or another human player (if that can be programmend somehow).

In any case make sure, that there are as many startegies as possible for completing it. A game that u can only win by following an exact startegy could at best be fun the first time playing.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2005, 04:08:30 PM »
You could even go farther and make the victory condition almost anything.

For example, you could make something where you had to, oh, capture food or colonists, steal RLV, fight your way to a certain point on the map, escape from somewhere, etc.

As for the design of the mission, it should use some randomness. (For example, the strategy the AI player uses would be more unpredictable, (e.g. would it go offensive or defensive)?, order in which it builds up its base.
The idea is to never "play the same game twice."

I would help out with design of a colony game but I have other stuff I have to do. (Like designing the map editor, etc.)

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2005, 05:23:45 PM »
you could even though in some wreckage salvage, they would be scattered around the map, and you would have to find them with scouts after you have reshurched space program, each piece of wreckage would allow you to reshurch a new starship part

those pieces could be hidden in random places, some mabe inside the opponents bases, and some guarded by the enemy

all the other ideas are really good too
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Offline RedXIII

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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2005, 07:34:12 PM »
I always thought of this as a advanced 2 on 2 game. A lot of it is pipe dreaming, probably. Although I wonder if its possible.

Simply enough, theres four players, the top two make up Team A, and the bottom two make up Team B. Team A is the defending team, Team B is the attacking team.

Create a very, very large map. A world-sized map. There are three bases. Base 1, 2, and 3.

Base 1 belongs to team A, it has a extremely excellent defensive position, however, it has limited clear room to build on. There is also limited resources. Maybe one or two of one-bar rare and common. Also add a geothermal vent or two.

However, at the core of the Base 1, there is an A.I., that uses the color black. It uses the exact same A.I. as the La Corrida AI with modifications. For example, unlike the La Corrida AI, if it feels it has 'Too many' combat units, it will send off half it's force, and transfer it to Player 1. The AI will have access to Three-bar ores. The AI Defending Base 3 also has a phalanx of turrets here. These turrets are in fairly crappy positions, and only serve as a rather artificial first line of defense to prevent rushes and allow Team A enough time to solidify a defensive position.

Base 2 will consist of Team B. They have poor defensive position, however, they have excellent ore.  They will also have an A.I. assisting them. Their AI will be plymouth, and mostly focoused on base defense. It will send combat units to Bases 1 and 3 at random intervals. However, if there are enemy units remotely near the base, than it will send all combat units to meet them. It will also build a lot of turrets.

Base 3 will consist of Team A's Main force, They have average defensive position, and good (But not great) ore. It also has an AI, the AI focouses entirely on defending Base 3 from intruders, however. It too is plymouth.

The objective is simple. Destroy the Base 1 AI's Command Center. Team A's objective is to destroy Team B's base. Team A can lose Base 3 and still be able to win.

PS: I posted this to allow people to draw ideas from my original idea.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2005, 07:34:55 PM by RedXIII »
-Nanaki 'RedXIII' Leroux

A pouncing cat stalks the hunting cat roar the two enraged in a death's embrace the coiled serpent crushes both. A pouncing cat stalks the hunting cat with care, the pouncing cat watches the coiled serpent crushes the hunting cat, a new star is born.
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Offline Highlander

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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2005, 03:37:45 AM »
Hope I read your idea right, please correct me if I have read anything wrong..

But to comment on it, good defensive position does not weight up for a massive amount of ore no matter how you look at it..

Like I have seen Lev do on several occasions is just to mass produce lynxes and wear the opponents defences down bit by bit. Since he got more ore/more vec facs he can build he's forces up quicker than the one on the defensive.

No matter the defensive position, a big difference in ore is what will decide the outcome..
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Offline Drakmar

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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2005, 08:47:08 AM »
I agree with that. Maybe if you had one 2 bar Common and Rare in the defensive, it might work better.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2005, 08:49:19 AM by Drakmar »

Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2005, 09:27:28 AM »
nice idea Red but its not single player.
the base with more ore can produce larger armys and win.

Offline RedXIII

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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2005, 05:48:41 PM »
While Attrition may work, the point of a defensive position is so that the 'Swarming' player will be at a disadvantage.

Simply enough, swarming with 500 lynxes wont be useful if the 100 lynxes fielded by the defenders wipe them out.

Numbers are not everything. Lev only beats people because he not only knows how to mass produce lynxes, but use what he produces.

Plus the defending team owns two bases, While the attacking team attacks one, the defending team might decide to use the other to stage counterattacks.

The definition of a 'Good Defensive position', for example, may force the attacking player to go through a heavily defended entry point to even hope to reach the target. How easily do you think Lynxes can survive going through a valley with ESGs and Stickyfoam raining down from the mountains?

PS: I know Levi, which is why I commented that it was to draw ideas from, not a complete idea in itself.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2005, 05:49:12 PM by RedXIII »
-Nanaki 'RedXIII' Leroux

A pouncing cat stalks the hunting cat roar the two enraged in a death's embrace the coiled serpent crushes both. A pouncing cat stalks the hunting cat with care, the pouncing cat watches the coiled serpent crushes the hunting cat, a new star is born.
- T

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2005, 03:08:16 AM »
1) Swarm with Tigers instead of lynxes

2) Carpet bomb the entrance with EMP Missiles before sending in the cavalry


With good ore you can afford to do both..
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2005, 07:33:04 PM »
depents if players start with rare ore
depents if attack happens early with lynx
the team with more ore can wear the other team down over time
tigers can slowly move in etc
defence will slow units down tho and make them last longer.

Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2005, 06:24:40 AM »
A large map, land rush style, many base locations with differnt ore types and defensive spots. A AI on the map. Many objectives which will take a long time to complete.

Offline RedXIII

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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2005, 01:43:49 PM »
I was thinking more on the scale of multiple AI. Maybe a friendly AI (such as a modified La Corrida Ally) That you have a mission objective to defend.
-Nanaki 'RedXIII' Leroux

A pouncing cat stalks the hunting cat roar the two enraged in a death's embrace the coiled serpent crushes both. A pouncing cat stalks the hunting cat with care, the pouncing cat watches the coiled serpent crushes the hunting cat, a new star is born.
- T

Offline TH300

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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2005, 01:17:37 AM »
Quote
A large map, land rush style, many base locations with differnt ore types and defensive spots. A AI on the map. Many objectives which will take a long time to complete.
Yes. A large map is absolutely necessary. And the more objectives the better.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2005, 04:08:02 PM »
dont forget my wreckage idea, it would make the game longer, lessen repetitive ness, and give you a reason to destroy the other coloney other than being bored :D  
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Offline HaXtOr

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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2005, 07:23:54 PM »
you come apon one of your old bases and its totaly trashed to top it off a plymoth ai has settled in next to it and is mooching off the abandoned base take it over and rebuild. you enter the map with a repair vehicle. go under the cover of darkness, repair what you need to surprise them with defenses. dig in and build up the base.


this is my new project

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2005, 07:25:50 PM »
I like Red's idea of multiple AI's.

Look at other games. You could do stuff where you maybe have to steal things, like technology (easily done), for example the enemy has a prototype unit sitting in a cargotruck deep inside their base. You have to penetrate in and get it out safely, and use the technology to your advantage and take them out.

Make the "technology" something big like a Thor's hammer and all you're able to research are lasers/mics.

Or make it an upgrade. (Remember we can create totally new research topics to change almost any attribute about a unit type). For example the enemy has similar units and defenses to you, but they always have a slight edge over you. (Eg. they sense when you build up and start to mobilize their army, either by building like nuts, or taking out your production facilities which are badly defended).

And with that research you can get the edge over them. (It could even cause the trigger of them slowing down production due to "radio interference" or whatnot. Researches can be used to trigger anything in the game).

Offline lethalgoose

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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2005, 07:29:03 PM »
aight, here's my idea:

Sandbox!

Maybe sum1 said it, but Id like an instant action type game, where you have either 1, 2, or 3 enemies (choice). And you are all put on the map having to start your base from scratch (with required storage kits of course). Then, you can wing it. Enemies will fight each other, not just you (will attack each other) and you can choose the difficulty. Basically, easy (nobody would play so dont make it), medium (on case newbs or a bored person wants to play), and hard (which you escalate dramatically). Where enemies can form alliences, use tactics like stickyfoam or emps usage, and they build up defences that are acctually quite helpful (emp guard post, stickyfoam pst, etc). The enemies will go to your weak point in defencives, and will even make distractions and turn off their lights during the night. Enemies will flank you, and go straight for your base's most vulnerable points. And if that enough, stop it there. You can even give them a preset building and research order to make them proficient. make a mode Levi would have to think to win :D

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2005, 07:34:20 PM »
Well, sometime in the future when there is a map editor that will allow me to do what I want, I plan on making a new colony game. It's gonna be a sandbox style game. There will be no way to win, and probably no way to lose. Hopefully I'll have an AI base in it, and if one player ever gets trashed, they will get reinforcements to start up again. (Possibly replenish a few colonists if they all die). Depending on the difficulty setting there will be various things that could happen. On the easiest setting, there will be no attacks on your main base or any disasters in that area. Basically you'll never have to worry about your main base being destroyed. There will, however, likely be a disaster area, or a part of the map where enemy units will roam. Maybe like a top vs. bottom kind of thing. One half of the map is safe, the other half is where all the action happens. Now, depending on the difficulty level, this might change. On the hardest level, there will be disasters everywhere and the AI is free to trash your base. I'm not so sure about medium yet. Allow disaster everywhere but not AI everywhere? Ahh well, plenty of time to sort that out I guess.


As for another idea (largely from Haxtor after a discussion on IRC). You could start with a heavily damaged base where all the buildings are offline. We'll probably want a nearby enemy base leaching off the resources of the destroyed base. (Mines, rubble, etc.) You enter the map with a single repair vehicle in the dead of night, and see what you can get operational before your opponent realizes what has happened and stops you. So, get your basic required structure operational, kick out the invading resource hogers, retake your mines, and get enough defenses up to stop the couterattack.

Edit: and the idea gets posted while I write it up.  :o  Ahh well, I liked the idea.

Oh, and we should have some sort of randomized AI strategy. That way it won't always be obvious how to play to get the upper hand. A strategy that works well one time might fail miserably the next.


Edit: A level where you have to research to be able to see the blight. ... and when you do you find you're suddenly surrounded by splotches of it all over the map. And the gaps are closing in.  :ph34r: (Or you could not research it and silently be killed by the unknown and wonder what happened.  :lol: ) For sure the original starting area would have to be one of (or near one of) the starting virus patches. But without the research you won't know which mines are safe to move to, or at least how long you can expect to have at them.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2005, 07:59:17 PM by Hooman »

Offline Thunder1

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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2005, 08:35:25 PM »
This sounds great! I was thinking for medium difficulty that the computer attacks your base, but half as much as hard mode. Disasters should include storms, earthquakes, and meteors, but not very frequent in the safer half.

ph34r my Redeemer!! >:D

Offline Drakmar

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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2005, 10:10:33 PM »
Quote
For sure the original starting area would have to be one of (or near one of) the starting virus patches. But without the research you won't know which mines are safe to move to, or at least how long you can expect to have at them.
Great Idea! I have an addon to that idea: There are mines everywhere, and some are infected with the blight, whihc is chosen randomly each time. They stay dormant until a Mine is completed on them, then it explodes, and a slow-moving blight is released. The more you release, the faster they move. When the research is finished, you can prevent unleashing any more, but will still probably die from the ones you already released!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2005, 10:13:34 PM by Drakmar »

Offline Ezekel

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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2005, 08:24:55 AM »
hum, why not have a landrush where both you and the computer starts off with no buildings.

... perhaps even have a 3rd or 4th player as an AI player (making a 3 or 4 way battle)



...can more then one AI script be put into one map without causing problems?


mrr, no matter what is made i'll play it. haven't played anything new in op2 in ages
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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2005, 12:21:29 PM »
It's entirely possible to have more than 1 AI player on an map. I'm sure they could be made to fight each other, team up against you, or even have an AI player help you. It might not be so easy to accomplish all that though. Using the DLLs for levels really opens them up to allow pretty much anything, but trying to code it might be a real nightmare. Anyways, if the code for an AI is written right, there should be no problems with having it control multiple AIs.

... I guess I'll look into getting an AI to actually ally with you sometime. I'm pretty sure I have an idea how it can be done, but I've never had time to try it out.