Author Topic: OP2 Update Wishlist  (Read 8354 times)

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2005, 10:42:20 PM »
I guess it depends partly on what you mean by a server to host games.

Some work has been done on the SIGS/WON DLLs. I've found out enough to trick the client into thinking it was logging into a SIGS server, but I couldn't seem to get the initial room join to work correctly. That project has long since been put aside.

If you wanted a faked hosted game where you just entered the IP address or whatever (maybe outpostuniverse.net) into the TCP/IP box, that's also doable. But we'd need to understand all the necessary network packets that OP2 uses, and the order in which packets are expected, and on what ports. We have partial information here, but it's somewhat difficult to get complete information. Plus, not all the rammifications of such a system are understood. If there was no "player" hosting the game, how do you set the settings? At the very worst, you could add text commands that you type into the chat window that the server parses, but that's a little sick.

Also, neither of the above methods solves the NAT problems. In theory, those problems could be solved with a game server, but we'd have to make modifications to the OP2 network code to make use of that setup. That is far from obvious how to do. If you wanted to be sure you weren't breaking huge amounts of code or introducing bugs, you'd need to go through a rather large amount of assembly and figure out just how exactly the how network system works. It would be all too easy to introduce hard to find bugs doing this.


So basically, that sort of a project would take at least many months (probably over a year) of good solid work to get something working decently. And even if it did work, it might not solve all the problems you'd hoped it would.
 

Offline Starfox00000

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« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2005, 06:12:33 PM »
you know what would be awesome, some kind of unit quene in the factories, or even a constant [selected unit] produce checkbox. Because if you think about it how much time do you spend building the same unit at the same vech. factory in the game.
 
Also, idk much about programming, but couldn't you just capture all the packets through like 3 network games and look at it, or would that be not possible (disk space, time, lag, w/e). Then figure out how to make a won-like server. And what about the obvious, could we ask serria for won itself or something?

Im with most peope who dont want to change values (2 workers in a vech. fact arent enough) and I think a trade center should at least take some power, mabey a worker. But i think eden should be able to capture vehicles (repair vehicles interfacing w/enemy vehicles while emp'ed?). I also think it would be cool to reverse engineer captured vehicles, because if you have it you can tell how it works.

You know those selectors (its like an auto play) for mods on games like morrowind, could we do that on op2. It could be really simple, like when it starts, you check mods you want. You could just store mods not being used in a mod folder within in the op2 folder. The selector would move un-selected mod to the folder and selected mods to the op2 folder, then starts op2. You could have an option for original and other little bits. I think its simple, unless I missed some blatently obvious flaw, it just seems to simple.

Of course more wreckage/maps/better ai are always wanted.

Stealing/Sharing research would be cool. like drive a scout up to an enemy lab and it has to be there so long to get a topic (longer for bigger topics). you could make it a random topic, and once you steal it you have to decript it. Mabey you could load research into cargo tucks or scouts and transfer it to players.

Loading and transfering people into evac transports would be good, if probably hard to do, for your allies that starve and stuff.

And you know whats almost completely unrealted but would be really awesome, an op2 theme for windows. Error mesages could be savant voices, op2 already has some screen savers. startup noise could be like "command control initated", and other cool stuff.

Wow long post :P  

Offline Martynd

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« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2005, 06:25:44 PM »
When OP2 1st came out the official op2 site had themese for both eden and plymouth, in fact i think command control initiated was the sound when windows booted :P

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2005, 06:28:22 PM »
But the problem is, would shutting down be "Command Control Terminated" or "Our colony is doomed"?

Alright, maybe not a problem, but still...
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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2005, 05:15:29 PM »
Quote
Also, idk much about programming, but couldn't you just capture all the packets through like 3 network games and look at it, or would that be not possible (disk space, time, lag, w/e). Then figure out how to make a won-like server.

No.

The in game network protocol is different from the protocol SIGS/WON used to find games. Once a game has been found and you've joined it, the native network protocol for the game takes over. The SIGS/WON part of the protocol was only concerned with finding games.

So, either find someone who knows how it works, or hack the DLLs. I had a list of all the packet types used by the SIGS/WON DLLs, but I don't know what 99% of the fields mean. I only know the format of the packets, such as these 4 bytes are an int, followed by a 2 byte int, followed by a null terminated string, followed by a one byte char, etc. Maybe I'll get around to making a utility so people can play with the packets and see if they can figure anything out.
 

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2005, 06:49:22 PM »
I'll look at it just to make vague comments and not understand it in general until somebody else does it so I can take credit for it.
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Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2005, 06:58:30 AM »
The mod stuff is in the works and we plan to release it as part of OP2 v1.3.4.

It probably won't be part of the actual game menu, but what's going to happen is, the mods will add start menu shortcuts to activate the mod and launch OP2.

As for the moving colonists around, and stealing techs, technically that could be done through a mission DLL. It wouldn't be too hard to write such stuff in.

Although it would be quite 'simulated' and there could be some glitches. As the game wasn't designed to handle either of these things, we'd have to make it appear that the colonists are being traded.

(Example: Move Evac. trans. nearby a Trade Center. Add cargo "Colonists" to the evac trans, and subtract a number of colonists from the player's colonist count. (50 or so?). Move that vehicle by an ally's Trade center and clear it's cargo, add the 50 colonists to the ally's colonist count).
« Last Edit: December 21, 2005, 07:01:41 AM by op2hacker »

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2005, 05:16:38 PM »
About a fake WON, (since I love being master of the obvious) don't we know how to contact some of the people who made op2? Maybe we could ask if they knew anything about it, or if they know anybody who knows anything about it, or if they know anyone that knows anyone that knows something about it, or if...  you get the idea ;).
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Offline Starfox00000

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« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2005, 05:44:43 PM »
one more thing I think would be easy and cool would be the ability to build a basic lab after you get a standard lab. That way if someone makes a tech tree (remember the nano-tech one) and the players basic labe is destroyed after they have a standard lab their not screwed.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2005, 07:46:42 PM »
That's all done in the techtree. I could do it right now if youo want. But it would only be for custom maps.
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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2005, 04:28:27 PM »
The usual solution to the tech tree issue is to not give them the standard lab until all research at the basic lab is done. That way, if they have any research left to do at the basic lab, you can still build it back if it gets destroyed. But once you've finished all the research at the basic lab and are able to build a standard lab, the basic lab is now obsolete and it doesn't matter if you can't build it back when it's destroyed. In that sense, this problem is easy to get around by properly structuring the tech tree.

The only issue is if you want the basic lab and the standard lab available at the same time for concurrent research like you can do with the standard lab and the advanced lab. Keep in mind any sort of mod would need to avoid messing up the campaign game. I think this is best left alone, or left as a level specific mod somehow. (In other words, it's up to the DLL writer or level designer to make sure there are no problems. At least that's what I think).


Sirbomber, I believe the SIGS project was seperate from OP2, so the programmers of OP2 wouldn't have had to touch any of the SIGS code. At most, they probably just interfaced to the SIGS DLL (an existing project made by other programmers?). The interface between OP2 and SIGS consists of two DLLs and a handfull of functions. Two main functions really. In other words, they'd probably at best know someone who worked on it, since they only would have had to call a few interface fucntions. In any case, SIGS is years old, and it's very unlikely that anyone would remember any technical details at a level that's useful. Vague concepts on how the system worked aren't really of much use in implementing a new server. In fact, most ideas that sum up to asking the programmer who wrote it over 8 years ago probably aren't going to amount to much. Unless a programmer has worked on something in the last few months, they probably won't be able to tell you anything useful about the code. But yeah, I know, it's pretty tempting to ask anyways.


Btw, Leeor and myself have independly come across some header files describing the SIGS interface. It's not too much to go on, and it's for an old beta version and is not up to date or completely accurate, but it is of some value. If anyone else is looking for them, try google.  :D  (It was relating to Homeworld actually). It's proved to be of some use in figuring out how the protocol works. It could also be used to develop a new interface or protocol. Probably a ridiculous amount of work though.

 

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2005, 11:43:52 AM »
Omfg, I just found those headers too.

I find them a bit useful. At least for the interface.

It's mostly useless if we want to recreate the SIGS server however.

But if we want to rewrite the SIGS DLLs ... :)

OP2 only uses a subset of the functions that are available. In any case the headers are probably more than adequate to describe the interface that OP2 uses.

It appears that they were released when they released the HW source.
 

Offline Starfox00000

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« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2006, 09:22:05 PM »
I noticed that when you research extended-range projectile launcher, it doesn't say increased range on the affected vehicles. I also checked in the original op2, and it doesn't do it there either. It doesn't seem like it would be hard to do, but I dont really know. It would be sweet if they did though.

Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2006, 04:36:54 AM »
extended-range projectile does increase the range of units!

and a note research is very easy to edit.

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2006, 04:44:38 AM »
it seems like this thread just leads to preaching about ideas for completely new things, not necessarily things that could be released in a patch. requesting a new game should go in another thread, but feature requests for standard op2 ONLY should go here. thats just my opinion but anyway...

can we get that empty blackness removed from the edges of the tiles when working in the mapper? when you set the slider to the middle it should put you in the middle of the map, instead of the middle of the maximum possible map size. it gets a little frustrating when you have to more or less "guess" the center of a map and where your current view is positioned on it. thats minor.

whats more major is that id like to create a "new user welcome package" perhaps that comes with the opu version of op2 in the .rar file. a compressed folder in which contains some desktop backgrounds, some op2 related fonts, custom cursors, system icons, some op2 themed IM and forum avatars. things like that to get the new user excited about what theyre getting.

or should this be something seperate? i was thinking maybe the new user email could contain a link to the file that they can downlaod seperately that is also linked to on the main download page.

whether this sounds good or not, id like to collects resources for making something like this. ill host it on my ftp and when we decide how to distribute it, it will be ready and well stocked.
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2006, 05:32:32 AM »
Sounds like a great idea Horus :D Not the thread for it tho :P

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2006, 07:12:23 AM »
i originally had a long rant about the mapper but then i cut most of it out so i didnt piss anyone off. i more or less wanted to say that id like to see some movement toward making the mapper easier to use and require less interpretation and manual-reading. like the sc mapper, you can pretty much figure out what to do by looking at it. while tile placement is straightforward, it would be nice to have something that would autogenerate some terrain. maybe something that would auto arrange cliffs, randomly place boulders and craters or fill an area with a random tiletype. some sort of zoom would be handy by allowing you to have an intermediate view between minimap and fullsize to check consistency, symmetry, layout, etc.

i also had some ideas about changes to op2 itself. id REALLY like more control over in-game messages. having additional tabs within the comms tab to type mask messages would help everyone out alot. for example, a tab that shows only completed building reports, combat reports, chat messages. being able to mask those irritating disaster warnings that fill the buffer instantly would really help. i realized the value of this when i started writing a tutorial on build order and starting a game. i wanted to build in op2 and then check back on the messages to reference my build order and the mark it ocurred at. finding them became impossible.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2006, 07:20:20 AM by dm-horus »
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2006, 07:41:48 AM »
Pllease post mapper suggestions and what u do and dont like about it etc in the mapper thread :P

Offline Starfox00000

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« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2006, 08:44:49 PM »
Is there some way we could have vehicles move of the dock of the grage when they exit, mabey even a "empty garge" button?

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2006, 12:15:28 PM »
Wow, I love that idea. An auto load would also be nice for the garage.  :)

It doesn't look like an easy task though.  :(
But hey, pester people from time to time and someone might figure it out. This sorta reminded me of a few things I wanted to look into. Namely adding more buttons to the command pane.  

Offline Vexhare

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« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2006, 04:46:55 PM »
I think it would be most reasonable to see a colony map that requires you to launch several starships, instead of just one, also it would be even more reasonable to see a colony map with a req. of 2000 colonists.... it would be interesting... lol.

Offline Arklon

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« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2006, 04:15:37 PM »
Support for 1024x512 (and possibly larger) maps. Unlikely that a fix could be made for Dynamix's OP2, might have to wait a long time until OP2 is rewritten.

Buildings/walls/tubes that are going to be made appearing translucent until construction is started. Again, might have to wait for OP2 to be rewritten, but who knows?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 04:16:49 PM by Arklon »

Offline TH300

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« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2006, 05:05:15 PM »
Quote
Support for 1024x512 (and possibly larger) maps. Unlikely that a fix could be made for Dynamix's OP2, might have to wait a long time until OP2 is rewritten.
huh? I didn't know that they don't work. Why can I create them with the mapper, then?

Quote
Buildings/walls/tubes that are going to be made appearing translucent until construction is started. Again, might have to wait for OP2 to be rewritten, but who knows?
would indeed be nice.

Offline Arklon

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« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2006, 04:08:44 PM »
Just figured out something about the map size "limit" I mentioned in my previous post. If the map's width is at 1024, it will crash no matter what the height is. However, the height can be 1024 and the width can be <=512 and it'll work fine. It must be a problem with the game's handling of world maps.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2006, 03:09:18 PM »
That sounds like something OP2 would do...
Now, if it would just make two separate globes that we could travel between... (then Space Program would be useful in LoS)
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