Author Topic: George <--> Kerry  (Read 2997 times)

Offline Zircon

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George <--> Kerry
« on: October 12, 2004, 05:27:39 AM »
Most of the posts made in the recent past seem to be "bumping" madness  :P so i thought i might ignite a debate, debates are afterall the primary driving force in forums.

When visiting other forums you usually see the "i luve bush" & "i love kerry" with the usual big dose of references to monkeys and doorknobs for bush and flipflops for kerry.
They never reach something and it just creates a mindless flamewar that leaves the political debate altogether.

Now with that said should this debate exist, well... experimentation never hurt someone. (cough, okay it has :blush: )

Also, as im not american some might argue why i involve myself in it. Well it's interesting and i should be entitled to a "passive" opinion yes?

The "rules" for this debate is as follows.

1: There will be no "bush/kerry is da 1337est" without proper argumentation to back it up.
2: The "ongoing" war should play a minor role (example: He did it for oil!!! (paranoid)) and rather devote itself to the views and changes they wish to bring.
3: Use common sense.

--------------------------------------------

Now before i start i'll just say that i dont like either bush nor kerry and see it rather as choosing the smaller evil of the two.

Some of the things i dont like about Bush is that when he first became president he...

1: Announced that his administration would police stem cell research, this "sanctioning" if so to call it was a big setback for research that could potentially cure many genetic diseases such as parkinson and alzheimer and not to mention be invaluable in other medical areas.

Currently it's like this. Vote Bush and the sanctioning will continue. Vote Kerry and the sanctions will be lifted. And before anyone says that stem cells are evil and will mutate into a big monster that will destroy the planet (you get the picture) i advise that you head somewhere else. (for example a big white well lit room with alot of soft pillows decorating the walls)

2: Started to really push poor countries into outlawing abortion in order to recieve continued funding and help aid. This "forced hand" is among other in effect over at mexico city and several african and muslim countries.
It's an evil circle because the countries need the aid but since they're given a choice it's not "evil" yet they are in a way forcing it if you get the picture.

Kerry promises to lift the forced anti-abortian law.

----------------------

3: I will quote this one.
Quote
When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates had the following exchange with then Vice President Bush.

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are Atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the Atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are Atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on Atheists.

According to Bush and his administration Atheists (nonbelievers) should not be treated as equal citizens. Even today they have not withdrawn this comment and are steadfast in their opinion.

Now this might seem like im all for kerry but i have my bad sides with him too but i cant do this debate on my own so i'll let someone else take over :P
« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 06:42:11 AM by Zircon »

Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2004, 07:28:15 AM »
The Times say that Bush cheated on the speaking (was it that??)
They say that there iss a cable running under his shirt and suspect he kept radio contact with someone.

My opinions:
1> Times suxxxxx.
2> Bush rulez.
3> Money changed owners somewhere?
4> It is not allowed to take a back photo of the future's president :)
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Offline gpgarrettboast

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2004, 08:27:34 AM »
I think those kind of statements are what was to be avoided. :P lol Well...

grrr. bell rang!  well. I'll post my opinion later
 

Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 05:32:06 AM »
garrett, you have a point. me needs a dictionary!
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Offline Oprime

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 06:49:55 AM »
I don't like both of them, but... If things are to get better here at homebase Kerry would be the proper choice. Social security does not belong in the hands of big business, I have no problem with abortions (unless it was the mothers fault), Bush lies about how we arn't making perminent bases in Iraq, and lastly HE'S MAKING A MESS OF THE ECONOMY!
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Offline Betaray

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2004, 05:32:50 PM »
I favor Bush because of alot of things, but the main was is that ive seen his voteing record

here is just a part of it on defence

1995: Proposed Bill Cutting $1.5 Billion From Intelligence Budget. Kerry introduced a bill that would "reduce the Intelligence budget by $300 million in each of fiscal years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000." There were no cosponsors of Kerry’s bill, which never made it the floor for a vote. (S.1290, Introduced 9/29/95)

1995: Voted Slash FBI Funding By $80 Million. (H.R. 2076, CQ Vote #480: Adopted 49-41: R 9-40; D 40-1, 9/29/95, Kerry Voted Yea)

1994: Proposed Bill To Gut $1 Billion From Intelligence And Freeze Spending For Two Major Intelligence Programs. Kerry proposed a bill cutting $1 billion from the budgets of the National Foreign Intelligence Program and from Tactical Intelligence, and freezing their budgets. The bill did not make it to a vote, but the language was later submitted (and defeated : see below) as S. Amdt. 1452 to H.R. 3759. (S. 1826, Introduced 2/3/94)

1997: Kerry Questioned Growth Of Intelligence Community After Cold War. "Now that that [Cold War] struggle is over, why is it that our vast intelligence apparatus continues to grow even as Government resources for new and essential priorities fall far short of what is necessary"? (Senator John Kerry Agreeing That Critic's Concerns Be Addressed, Congressional Record, 5/1/97, p. S3891)

When His Bill Stalled In Committee, Kerry Proposed $1 Billion Cut As Amendment Instead. Kerry proposed cutting $1 billion from the National Foreign Intelligence Program and Tactical Intelligence budgets, and freezing their budgets. The amendment was defeated, with even Graham, Lieberman and Braun voting against Kerry. (Amdt.. To H.R. 3759, CQ Vote #39: Rejected 20-75: R 3-37; D 17-38, 2/10/94, Kerry Voted Yea; Graham, Lieberman And Braun Voted Nay)

After all the above, he has the nerve to say this, after 9/11

12 Days After 9/11: Kerry Questioned Quality Of Intelligence. "And the tragedy is, at the moment, that the single most important weapon for the United States of America is intelligence. And we are weakest, frankly, in that particular area. So it’s going to take us time to be able to build up here to do this properly." (CBS’s "Face The Nation," 9/23/01)

SEN. KERRY’S DEFENSE STRATEGY: CUT CRITICAL WEAPONS SYSTEMS

In 1996, Introduced Bill To Slash Defense Department Funding By $6.5 Billion. Kerry’s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote. (S. 1580,Introduced 2/29/96)

In 1995, Voted To Freeze Defense Spending For 7 Years, Slashing Over $34 Billion From Defense. Only 27 other Senators voted with Kerry.

Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution : Defense Freeze. "Harkin, D-Iowa, amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training." (S. Con. Res. 13, CQ Vote #181: Rejected 28-71: R 2-51; D 26-20, 5/24/95, Kerry Voted Yea)

In 1993, Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:


Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews
Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one
Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force
Terminate the Navy’s coastal mine-hunting ship program
Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces in one year. (S.1163, Introduced 6/24/93)
Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Defense Spending, Including:

In 1993, Voted Against Increased Defense Spending For Military Pay Raise. Kerry voted to kill an increase in military pay over five years. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 55-42: R 2-39; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)
In 1992, Voted To Cut $6 Billion From Defense. Republicans and Democrats successfully blocked the attempt to cut defense spending. (S. Con. Res. 106, CQ Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 53-40: R 38-1; D 15-39, 4/9/92, Kerry Voted Nay)
In 1991, Voted To Slash Over $3 Billion From Defense, Shift Money To Social Programs. Only 27 Senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut. (H.R. 2707, CQ Vote #182: Motion Rejected 28-69: R 3-39; D 25-30, 9/10/91, Kerry Voted Yea)
In 1991, Voted To Cut Defense Spending By 2%. Only 21 other Senators voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated. S. Con. Res. 29, CQ Vote #49: Motion Rejected 22-73: R 1-39; D 21-34, 4/25/91, Kerry Voted Yea)
Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Or Eliminate Funding For B-2 Stealth Bomber.


H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #203: Rejected 29-71: R 2-43; D 27-28, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Yea;
H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #310: Rejected 29-68: R 3-41; D 26-27, 11/18/89, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 2884, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 43-56: R 8-36; D 35-20, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 2884, CQ Vote #209: Rejected 45-53: R 9-34; D 36-19, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 1507, CQ Vote #174: Rejected 42-57: R 7-36; D 35-21, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea;
H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #206: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 36-7; D 15-41, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #216: Rejected 45-53: R 8-35; D 37-18, 9/18/92, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 2182, CQ Vote #179: Rejected 45-55: R 8-36; D 37-19, 7/1/94, Kerry Voted Yea
Has Voted Repeatedly Against Missile Defense.

S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 1507, CQ Vote #173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea;
H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay;
S.2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea;
S.3114, CQ Vote #182: Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay;
S.3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 10/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38-17, 3/22/94, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42, 8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5, 8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4, 6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D 35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34: R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41; I 0-0, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 1873, CQ Vote #262: Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay;
S 1635, CQ Vote #157: Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 2549, CQ Vote #178: Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay
KERRY OPPOSED WEAPONS CRITICAL TO RECENT MILITARY SUCCESSES

Running For Senate In 1984, Kerry Promised Massive Defense Cuts. "Kerry in 1984 said he would have voted to cancel the B-1 bomber, B-2 stealth bomber, AH-64 Apache helicopter, Patriot missile, the F-15, F-14A and F-14D jets, the AV-8B Harrier jet, the Aegis air-defense cruiser, and the Trident missile system. He also advocated reductions in many other systems, such as the M1 Abrams tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and the F-16 jet." (Brian C. Mooney, "Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One," The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)

Weapons Kerry Sought To Phase Out Were Vital In Iraq. "[K]erry supported cancellation of a host of weapons systems that have become the basis of US military might -- the high-tech munitions and delivery systems on display to the world as they leveled the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein in a matter of weeks." (Brian C. Mooney, "Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One," The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)

F-16 Fighting Falcons. "The Air Force would also play an important role in strikes against high-ranking officials of the Ba’ath regime. On April 4, two Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcons dropped laser-guided munitions on the house of Ali Hassan al-Majid, a.k.a. ‘Chemical Ali,’ in Basra." (Abraham Genauer, "Technology And Volume Of Sorties Overwhelmed The Iraqis’ Defenses, The Hill, 5/21/03)

B-1Bs B-2As F-15 And F-16s. "On the night of March 21 alone, the first of ‘shock and awe,’ coalition air forces flew nearly 2,000 missions. Involved were Air Force B-1B Lancers, B-2A Spirits, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-16 Fighting Falcons." (Abraham Genauer, "Technology And Volume Of Sorties Overwhelmed The Iraqis’ Defenses, The Hill, 5/21/03)

M1 Abrams. "‘[M1 Abrams] tanks were the sledgehammer in this war,’ added Pat Garrett, an associate analyst with GlobalSecurity.org. ‘The tank was the tool that allowed [the ground forces] to progress as fast as they did.’" (Patrick O’Connor, "Revolutionary Tank Tactics Alter Iraqi Conflict, Future Of Urban Warfare, The Hill, 5/21/03)

Patriot Missile. "U.S. Central Command says the Patriots have improved to the point where they intercepted nine of the Iraqis’ short-range al-Samoud 2 and Ababil-100 missiles in this conflict." (Andrea Stone, "Patriot Missile: Friend Or Foe To Allied Troops? USA Today, 4/15/03)

AH-64 Apache Helicopter. "Recently, Apaches in Afghanistan achieved success directly supporting ground troops. Whether in shaping the battle in a combined arms Warfighter-type fight where intelligence of the enemy is known, or by conducting close combat attacks in direct support of a ground commander, the Longbow Apache provides significantly increased flexibility and firepower for U.S. Army forces ." (Maj. David J. Rude and Lt. Col. Daniel E. Williams, "The ‘Warfighter Mindset’ and the War in Iraq, Army Magazine, 7/03)

Tomahawk Cruise Missile. "The first operational use [of Tomahawk cruise missiles] was in Operation Desert Storm, 1991, with immense success. The missile has since been used successfully in several other conflicts include[ing] Bosnia in 1995 and in Iraq again in 1996 [and in] strikes against training camps run by Osama Bin Laden’s al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan in 1998. Cruise missiles were also fired during the air campaign over Kosovo in 1999." (Vivek Rai, "Cruise Missiles, By Air And Sea, MSNBC.com, Accessed 7/17/03)

Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser. "During Operation Iraqi Freedom, [the Aegis cruiser] Bunker Hill was one of the first warships to conduct Tomahawk strikes against leadership targets in Iraq. The ship launched a total of 31 missiles during the war. Its embarked helicopter detachment supported the rescue of United Nations workers being forcibly removed from oil platforms in the Northern Arabian Gulf and provided medical evacuations from the Iraqi city of Umm Qasr." (S.A. Thornbloom, "USS Bunker Hill Makes Revolutionary Return, NavyDispatch.com, Accessed 7/17/03)

During 1980s, Kerry And Michael Dukakis Joined Forces With Liberal Group Dedicated To Slashing Defense. Kerry sat on the board of "Jobs With Peace Campaign," which sought to "develop public support for cutting the defense budget" ("Pentagon Demonstrators Call For Home-Building, Not Bombs, The Associated Press, 6/3/88)

Running For Congress In 1972, Kerry Promised To Cut Defense Spending. "On what he’ll do if he’s elected to Congress, Kerry said he would ‘bring a different kind of message to the president.’ He said he would vote against military appropriations.

now, after all that, do you really think he will make a 180 and and do what he has been saying? (destroying all terrsists?)
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xfir

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2004, 06:07:47 PM »
Quote
Bush lies about how we arn't making perminent bases in Iraq, and lastly HE'S MAKING A MESS OF THE ECONOMY!
Prove it. I say to you prove that he is lying.

Also, state facts behind your accusation that he is making a mess of the economy.

We just got out of a global recession. The recent tax cuts helped bring the US out of that recession. Some European nations are still trying to get out. You tell me that Bush has hurt the economy?

--

Good post Betaray.

Offline Zircon

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2004, 03:11:48 AM »
Good debate ^_^

So i'm just going to throw in some more wood on the fire.

Subject: Bush & The environment

* Dramatically stepping up drilling for oil and natural gas on public land.

* Loosening environmental restrictions on logging and mining on federal property.

* Easing rules that require environmental impact assessments before thinning national forests, starting certain military activities such as bombing practice and building major transportation projects such as airports or highways.

* The Bush administration is cleaning up 31 percent fewer Superfund sites per month than the Clinton administration did, and polluters are paying 64 percent less in fines per month than they did during the late 1990s, according to a Knight Ridder analysis of settlements published in the Federal Register.

* Rejecting a worldwide treaty to curb global warming and pushing a comprehensive energy plan that stresses reliance on fossil fuels, which cause global warming and air pollution. (Kyoto protocol which even Russia agreed to enter some time ago)

* Proposing to weaken the cornerstone air and water pollution laws enacted in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

The Bush administration has also canceled a Clinton rule preventing companies that cause "significant irreparable harm" from mining any more public land.

Now these points are ofcourse double sided because the environment suffers but the big companies flourish, possibly benefiting the economy.
But is that really the best choice? Nuking the environment in order to escape a regression, but that is a debate of its own.

Just for fun i'll bring up that in 2002 the bush administration admitted for the first time ever that "humans" may be responsible for rises in among other carbon dioxide and other pollutants. Well ladeda i would never have expected :whistle:
It's like the cigarette companies claiming that nicotine is not addictive and that they don't cause health problems.

Subject: Bush and Censorship

(Cautios Note: As i'm not american i have no clue if this is true or not, i am simply summarising a variety of sources.)

Since the Bush administration came to power censorship in the media and television has increased by alot. This is according to Bush in order to "protect" the american people. Censorship and parts of the Patriot Act have especially been active in censoring and editing foreign litterature (books). According to me censorship is the beginning of a lot of bad things.
Internet censorship as seen in for example china scares the <beep> out of me.
This fear of censorship might be because Sweden had a dark era once that was rather communistic and where the government had full control over the media.
Censorship is bad m'kay *nods*

In a recent poll made by a newspaper around 70% of the americans asked thought that the sun was a planet. Around 30% also believed that dinousaurs had never existed.
(Probably not true but in a way it wouldn't surprise me considering... *cough* nevermind that ^_^ )

I wonder why there cant be a candidate that has the good sides of both bush and kerry, it always seems to be either black or white with no grey area inbetween.

(Yes i would consider the first points i made good sides that kerry had which bush lacked, but then again a global anti-abortion law and the banning of stemcell research plus the not being so "high" on atheists could be exactly what some people want?)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2004, 03:33:19 AM by Zircon »

Offline Betaray

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2004, 01:20:05 PM »
defence alone, made me choose Bush, i saw Kerrys voteing record, and my spine tingled, if he were elected president the terrists would have a field day that would last 4 years!
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2004, 07:42:11 AM »
after bothered myself to read through that 2.5 pages of voting records...




CALL 1-800-TERROR-IST NOW TO ORDER A TERRORIST AGAINST JOHN F. KERRY...

BTW, i think GTA: Vice City has an anti-Kerry program. one of the radio stations, VCPR, is full of arguing bout things... Positive Thinking, Morality, etc. In one of these arguing sections, there is one man named John F. Hickory.
His goals:
- Build a river to cut Florida off the states. :D :D :D :D :D :D
- No ppl from the states SHOULD enter a floridan theme park. :D :D :D :D :D :D
- Emigrate ALL OLD PPL. :D :D :D :D :D :D
« Last Edit: October 20, 2004, 07:44:25 AM by PlayingOutpost0-24 »
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Offline Jake

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2004, 03:40:49 AM »
"We just got out of a global recession."

Uhhh...last time I checked the economic numbers, we were still in one.

Offline Luweeg64

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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2004, 07:11:07 PM »
Quote
* Rejecting a worldwide treaty to curb global warming and pushing a comprehensive energy plan that stresses reliance on fossil fuels, which cause global warming and air pollution. (Kyoto protocol which even Russia agreed to enter some time ago)
 
Don't get me started about the Kyoto Potocol.

Let me ask you this?

Why does it let 3rd world nations pollute, but put restrictions on the modern world.
It weakes our industry, while not restricting 3rd world countries.
 

xfir

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2004, 07:19:36 PM »
Quote
"We just got out of a global recession."

Uhhh...last time I checked the economic numbers, we were still in one.
But we are recovering a lot faster than any European country.

On a side note, it would appear Zircon is targetting only Bush. I would like to see your views on him as well...

In any case, no president is going to fix the country. Kerry keeps saying he has great plans to cure the deficiit, but no one has yet to see these plans. And if there were that great, he would have suggested them to congress to get them started, but it would appear he has a streak for not appearing before congress to actually sign anything anyway.

Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2004, 03:06:56 AM »
o...kay lemme tell u last time... QUIT  MOCKING BUSH! :D
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2004, 08:06:29 AM »
Quote
Let me ask you this?

Why does it let 3rd world nations pollute, but put restrictions on the modern world.
It weakes our industry, while not restricting 3rd world countries.

Oh it restricts 3rd world nations, the only thing is that those nations dont even get near the roof set by the Kyoto protocol.

3rd world countries doesn't even have harmful industries most of the time.
The major culprits behind pollution are the US, Germany, China!, and some parts of India plus a dot or two in africa.

Australia is also a major polluter but they release very little nitrogen dioxide.

Quote
But we are recovering a lot faster than any European country.

*cough* due to some twist of faith we didn't even enter the regression, we might have sunk a bit but we managed to keep stable over here. A us dollar was worth 10 skr a couple of years ago, yesterday it went below the 7 skr mark...

Quote
On a side note, it would appear Zircon is targetting only Bush. I would like to see your views on him as well...

If everyone agreed that Bush was the better choice there wouldn't be a debate.
Someone needs to act the "bad guy"  ^_^

And it seems im the only one to recognise that Kerry has a couple of good things, like the stem cell research. Can someone truly say on this forum that it's soooo "evil" just because Bush says so and Kerry wants it?

(Betarays post on defense pretty much speaks for itself, it's not like i'm even trying to defend Kerry on that front...)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 08:24:21 AM by Zircon »

Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2004, 08:24:52 AM »
:D
btw, warez P2P said new update is on
and it said "Vote for Kerry to save the P2P and save the world!"
i say i never use that f***ing thing again :)


btw whats with Iraq?

75% believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.
74% believe Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in agreements on trade.
72% believe Iraq had WMD or a program to develop them.
72% believe Bush supports the treaty banning landmines.
69% believe Bush supports the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.
61% believe if Bush knew there were no WMD he would not have gone to war.
60% believe most experts believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.
58% believe the Duelfer report concluded that Iraq had either WMD or a major program to develop them.
57% believe that the majority of people in the world would prefer to see Bush reelected.
56% believe most experts think Iraq had WMD.
55% believe the 9/11 report concluded Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.
51% believe Bush supports the Kyoto treaty.
20% believe Iraq was directly involved in 9/11

but in this environment we have Bush as a loser...
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 09:13:45 AM by PlayingOutpost0-24 »
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Offline Oprime

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2004, 06:35:24 PM »
I'm really late on this 1 :P but (goes to xfir's post) I can't show you the proof because my friends are the 1's who told me that there will be bases in Iraq that will last for well over 20 years.

Some soldiers currently assigned there will be there for a good 4-6 years

One of my buddies (who is in the navy) is going to be there for like 2 years

Xfir you don't live in a CITY to see the problems that are occurring. The city I live in is in about 30 Million dollars in debt! A city for goodness sake! This is from the last 3 years, because the city hasn't gotten that much support from the federal government. Public schools have no money, colleges and Universities are raising tuition and Bush isn't doing a thing about it, Minimum wage is going NO WHERE, what has bushes Medicare crap done other then confuse people who think it works (the 10% discount only applies to named brand medication, but then Medicare doesn't cover named brand stuff get the picture ;)), Bush's "tighter security" makes it SUPER HARD for normal non-terrorist peoples to get in to this great country. Terrorist enter the country using student visas and tourist visas not the kind people use to live here for good aka green cards (there not green just so you know). I bet it would cost zircon more then $5500 JUST TO SEE if he will be approved to enter the country (the figure printing costs $70... $70 for a pad of ink and a peace of paper. It took my mom 8 years to do all the paper work to get my grandma and grandpa over here (they would have been here sooner but...) If you want to see a copy of a paper showing what it costs to file each of the forms email me. Sometimes they LOSE THE PAPERS, AHHH, so you are forced to pay the fees again and wait even longer.

Here's 1 more thing if bush is elected HE WILL REINSTATE THE Daft. This might not apply to some of you but the ones who have financial aid RUN!!! Bush says he won't but if he did you wouldn't vote for him would you :ph34r:. He'll most likly call for it in june watch. The US military is so short on man power it isn't even funny and all we are to them is just a number.

Quote
Since the Bush administration came to power censorship in the media and television has increased by alot. This is according to Bush in order to "protect" the american people. Censorship and parts of the Patriot Act have especially been active in censoring and editing foreign litterature (books). According to me censorship is the beginning of a lot of bad things.

You are currect zircon the bush administration did this only to make people (like betaray) think all is well when it's not. Saddam did it 2, He told the people on live TV in Iraq that the US is losing and that Iraq is beating the US. In reality nobody is winning in Iraq. Iraq is just a even bigger mess then it was before just like *cough* here. It's all about propaganda for the bush administration when they're on TV.

Quote
Why does it let 3rd world nations pollute, but put restrictions on the modern world.
It weakes our industry, while not restricting 3rd world countries.

Luweeg64 didn't you notice we are at the top anyway :/
 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 06:48:55 PM by Oprime »
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Offline Tellaris

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2004, 09:04:53 PM »
This one little canadian thinks bush is a complete dumbass, that at the rate hes going, is gonna ruin the US.
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Offline gpgarrettboast

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2004, 06:31:04 AM »
I don't know who you're voting for, or why, but I know I'd go Bush because he is not anti-life  (pro-'choice') he is anti-gay marrige, he's protecting our rights.  Kerry is the opposite.  Also, please, vote Bush! Support Outpost 3, and vote Bush!!! :)  that's all I have to say.  Today is election day.

Offline it2000us

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2004, 07:57:58 AM »
This goes to OPPrimes post.

You'r completely tight about the draft thing, thats exactly what i have heard from some people, and from some friends of mine who are in the military.

I was told that bush plans on reinstating it when hes elected and that it will affect not only the people who have financial aid but those who are already in schools or colages. If this is true then you can consider the *old vietnam days* are coming back to you'r neigborhood.

This reason alone makes me vote agains bush, because i plan on doing something with my future and not going to war because he said so.

All hands on my side VOTE KERRY F*CK BUSH!!!

Offline Leviathan

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2004, 05:55:47 PM »
Bush Pwn0rised Kerry.
gg
no re
:ph34r:




Europe wanted Kerry to win so i think that :)

Offline it2000us

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George <--> Kerry
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2004, 08:58:46 PM »
F*CK bush, i hate that dude. It sucks that he won, but i knew he was gona win any way. It was inevitable, i guess we gona keep fighting the war and stuff. I just hope he doesnt realy do get the draft reinstated.

Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2004, 05:30:07 AM »
im gonna report you to bush ^^
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Offline mustang09-06

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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2004, 06:00:19 AM »
He won't reinstate the draft!!! He tried to put it through Congress already to prove people wrong about him reinstating it.  Congress said NO to reinstating the draft.  

Offline gpgarrettboast

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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2004, 06:08:11 AM »
HE didn't put it through congress.  The liberalistic Senators tried to raise it on the floor, and get at least one vote so they could play it up all big. (But didn't want to vote for it for themselves, as the media would say JK will reinstate the draft!)  But it was shot down unanimously by the Republican majority.  (The POTUS alone cannot pass something like the draft.  Even if he wanted to. (Which he doesn't))