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OutpostHD / Re: OutpostHD - An Outpost Redesign
« Last post by havkyp on August 13, 2017, 01:33:33 PM »
One of the things I will also note is that I'm personally a big fan of consistency in UI design. The more consistent everything is, the more intuitive and easier for the user to stay immersed. So in my head, the design for the factories tab should look very similar to the design for the laboratories tab (and probably space ports, etc.).

Totally agree, I think the other labs should look as identical to the lab view as possible. :)

-- Recommend compacting the information (name, topic, status, etc). The purpose of the information is to give the player knowledge, so compacting it increases information taken in per look space, rather than having to trace across the line for all the info.
-- Recommend making the facility list longer. The purpose of the list is for the user to gain macro-level information about multiple facilities. Being able to see more than three at a time increases the user's ability to pick through the list.

Ha I was thinking of the same points! Another thing that can be made more compact is to make the name of the facility itself green or red instead of having a separate operational/inactive section in the list item. Of course this applies to the other tabs, too.

Facilities List Pane (left side)

...

Facility Status Pane (top right)

...

"Library" Pane (bottom right)

I like these names, I suggest we go with these three terms going forward?

BTW I'm attaching a zip file containing my Pencil sketch files in case it helps.

Thanks for the feedback!
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OutpostHD / Re: OutpostHD - An Outpost Redesign
« Last post by White Claw on August 13, 2017, 11:58:01 AM »
(As with all my comments, please take my inputs as consideration and not "do it this way.")

This is looking pretty great. It's very similar to something I sketched out with paper/pencil a couple weeks ago for a master facility UI (though certainly not as clean looking). I also included a list of master tabs across the top and a similar list of facilities. I wish I knew about pencil then, because it would have helped out a ton. But I've downloaded it now, so thanks for the point out! :D


My original concept was more compacted, as opposed to something full screen. I would say if the desire is for a larger, full screen sort of view, then I would break it down slightly differently. I think all the same major elements are there, but here's an alternate arrangement. The key thing I was aiming for when sketching earlier ideas was compacted information and direct access to building control. OP1 had a habit of burying individual control when viewing from the facility list, causing excessive user actions to make and execute macro level decisions. (i.e. This block of labs are going to research topic X, this block of factories will produce Y.)

One of the things I will also note is that I'm personally a big fan of consistency in UI design. The more consistent everything is, the more intuitive and easier for the user to stay immersed. So in my head, the design for the factories tab should look very similar to the design for the laboratories tab (and probably space ports, etc.).


(Please forgive some of the stretching, etc. I wanted to use what was already created and don't yet know enough about Pencil to recreate it so quickly.)


Facilities List Pane (left side):
- Conceptual: (macro level info/selection) The facilities list gives at-a-glance information for health and status of facilities, giving the user broad sweeping controls to categorize facilities (based on naming convention, idle/active status, research/production, facility type, etc.)
-- Recommend compacting the information (name, topic, status, etc). The purpose of the information is to give the player knowledge, so compacting it increases information taken in per look space, rather than having to trace across the line for all the info.
-- Recommend making the facility list longer. The purpose of the list is for the user to gain macro-level information about multiple facilities. Being able to see more than three at a time increases the user's ability to pick through the list.

Facility Status Pane (top right):
- Conceptual: (micro level info/control) This block is an exploded view of a facility's individual line in the facilities list and allows for status view AND control of the facility.
-- Recommend including a block for control of the structure (buttons to idle, activate, "go to" for map view, etc.)
-- Includes a block for the building status itself (name, status, resources, etc.)
-- Recommend including a block for the research or production underway (what's being produced/researched, at what rate, etc.) in that facility
- This pane should look extremely similar (if not exactly the same) as the facility's individual "control" window (i.e. when accessing directly from the map).

"Library" Pane (bottom right):
- Conceptual: (macro level info/control) This block allows for macro control of the facilities sorted/selected in the facilities list. Also allows for the user to explore options/paths through the research/production list for strategic planning.
-- Split into two sections: Research/Manufacture list & detailed info
-- Recommend making the research/manufacture list taller, since the research list is vast, and there are a lot of topics that show up in here
-- Library pane can be converted into what makes sense for the facility tab (i.e. for mines, show a list of historical production)
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Projects / Re: OP2Archive Application Development
« Last post by Vagabond on August 13, 2017, 08:08:12 AM »
Code: [Select]
Nice looking output. Does it handle long filenames well? Do long filenames show in full, or get truncated?

Thanks Hooman. Really long file names currently jack up the formatting. I'll try to fix this in the near future by setting a max filename character length before ignoring the length on the filename column width. This way really long filenames will only mess up their row on the table and none of the others.


I've programmed the LIST and FIND commands to accept command line arguments. They seem pretty robust. I'm partially through the EXTRACT command.

Below is a draft of the usage statement. I'm trying to go for a POSIX syntax. Let me know if it is confusing or out of line. () means required and [] means optional and ... means multiple allowed.


-Brett
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News / Wiki Hotfix
« Last post by leeor_net on August 13, 2017, 05:12:18 AM »
I've applied an urgent patch to the Wiki that was pushed out last night. Please let me know if you encounter any issues with it.
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Projects / Re: OP2MapImager Development
« Last post by Vagabond on August 12, 2017, 04:51:01 PM »
I spent some time reading through Google Test's documentation.

The documentation seems clear to read. It seems like robust support for both Windows and Linux, although based on some of the documentation, I tend to think it wasn't developed for Visual Studio primary (which is fine). I liked how they pointed out in their documentation where they differed some from a standards document on unit testing and that the standards were in fact stated better than what they had developed. Shows a healthy respect for standardization.

It also seems pretty in line with the ideas/theories that I've used in my limited C# based unit testing in the past.

I'll look into downloading the Linux and Windows builds and see how big the downloads are, etc. I'd probably prefer pushing this into OP2Archive first over back-fitting OP2MapImager though.

Happy Coding!

-Brett
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Outpost 2 Divided Destiny / Re: 1 month push for Outpost 3D
« Last post by leeor_net on August 12, 2017, 04:35:46 PM »
Fair enough.

A suggestion -- I've looked over the Spring code in more detail (the actual base C++ code). It's not bad and it's very usable. As I recall your previous effort with Haven involved using a pre-built engine and Lua scripting. That could work but from what I saw I seriously doubt you'd be able to get the Outpost 2 behavior out of units via lua scripts. Very likely the behavior would have to be built into the engine itself.

Structure placement would also have to be modified with an included 'connectedness' algorithm. This can be done relatively efficiently with a depth-first search -- it's the same technique I used in OutpostHD. I would only run such a search in an RTS maybe once per tick (maybe every 2000 - 3500 milliseconds? that would have to be tested) and if possible in a separate logic thread separate from the rendering thread.

Lastly, you're right about failure rate. Sometimes it's not about being ablet to succeed, sometimes it's just about learning. If that's the case, I'd suggest instead of a full-on project just coming up with some sort of prototype that demonstrates the basic mechanics. I made the same suggestion to LordPalandus in his thread. Still haven't seen much out of it but it seems like he's made some good progress understanding his own limitations and the scope of what he wants to do so basically a lot of positives.  ;D

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OutpostHD / Re: OutpostHD - An Outpost Redesign
« Last post by leeor_net on August 12, 2017, 04:27:35 PM »
1. Its supposed to be a full screen view.

2. I didn't focus on colors at all, in fact I'd prefer a dark color theme instead of this bright/white one.

Cool and cool. I was hoping for a full screen view for something like this. It just sort of makes sense, you know?

As for the color scheme, I figured we'd use the current GUI skin with the green highlights that you see in the file dialog. Green was kind of the color for the original game so I opted to use it for a bit of a throw back.

3. This is actually just one tab in a conceptual master facilities view. You can see the other tabs on the top.

I like your thinking on this one.

Is this the kind of sketch that would help development??? Thanks in advance for your critique!

This is exactly what I was looking for / needing. Sketches like these are extremely useful.



Couple of notes:

Adding the 'view' you suggested would be difficult with the way the code is set up now. Not impossible. But it also seems somewhat redundant. We could have a 'take me to it' type of button that center the play view on that particular structure.

For the Research Topic tree view section, Goof has been working on a TreeView GUI control and it looks very much like that.

The scroll-able list of structures is also very doable. Going to have to give some thought on how to implement it well but most of the GUI framework is already laid out to make this happen.

For the left-most image of the lab, I figured we'd use a larger render of the lab structure like this one:



As White Claw gets the structures built we'll replace the graphics. In the mean time I'll use non-commercial placeholder images until we get original in place.

Thanks for taking the time to do this! These kinds of sketches really help to lighten the load in terms of development effort.
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OutpostHD / Re: OutpostHD - An Outpost Redesign
« Last post by havkyp on August 12, 2017, 01:29:22 PM »
Anyway, some sketches of those interfaces would be very very helpful. They don't have to be windowed either -- as much as I like windows (they work really well for very simple tasks like inspecting a particular structure, announcements, etc.), a full-screen UI may be more appropriate for managing groups of labs, factories, etc. Don't be afraid to provide several options. It's an iterative process where often times a simpler version is put in place and then built upon until the final version is produced.

Plus with a few different options we can prototype some of them to see which has the best flow. Sometimes what you think is least effective is actually the best option.

Hello,

I've had a brief moment away from Real LifeTM :p, and discovered the Pencil wireframing program and quickly whipped up this research view concept:



A few points:

1. Its supposed to be a full screen view.

2. I didn't focus on colors at all, in fact I'd prefer a dark color theme instead of this bright/white one.

3. This is actually just one tab in a conceptual master facilities view. You can see the other tabs on the top.

4. The top half shows information on your selection from the bottom half (which is a scrollable list).

5. If there is more than one building (in this case, lab) selected, then much of the information in the top half will be empty/greyed out. The exception would be the middle research topic tree. Once you selected a research topic in the tree, you can click on the "Change" button to change to it for all of the selected labs. This should produce a confirmation dialog box.

6. There should be enough space to add an "estimated completion date" to the information.

7. There is a "View" box where you see the selected building in context. (I know this is an underground lab, I just couldn't find an appropriate screenshot in time to crop!)

8. For the inactive hot lab, selecting it will show you what's still missing for it to be operational.

9. If damage/tear-and-wear is implemented, information about that can be added as well.

Is this the kind of sketch that would help development??? Thanks in advance for your critique!
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Outpost 2 Divided Destiny / Re: 1 month push for Outpost 3D
« Last post by Zhall on August 12, 2017, 10:57:43 AM »
First off id like to say i regret my unprofessionalism and hope to move past it.

Id like to restate that this would not result in a finished product but would focus on getting some components done and perhaps a barely playable proof of concept.

Industrial giant has since been merged into a different project and Haven was paused due to not having enough people involved,which ultimately will be the fate of this project.

Regardless of how many failures there has been I don't see the harm in trying again even if we are certain that it will fail again. As long as the progress is saved add open sourced at the end it will not be hot nothing!
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Projects / Re: OP2Archive Application Development
« Last post by leeor_net on August 12, 2017, 03:22:42 AM »
Quote
Separate note -- maybe now is a good time to start migrating some of the code from SVN to Git?

I was thinking the same thing. I'm enjoying the experience with GitHub. Let me know if you'd like help with moving things. I think git-svn can be used to make the transition easier, while preserving history.

There's a few things that we need to pull out of the SVN before we can move it over (namely the gamerelease directory) but otherwise git-svn should be fairly straight forward.

End Thread Hijack
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