Outpost Universe Forums
Off Topic => General Interest => Debate => Topic started by: CK9 on February 26, 2004, 07:32:03 PM
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I personaly think it should be allowed in the US, as it is protected by the 9th ammendment:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
which translates to the citizens shall not be denied their natural rights (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) nor any other right not mentioned in the constitution.
Thus, they are entitled to be married.
Any arguments?
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They are entitled to marriage, but I think it's a matter of legal stuff thought, like money and taxes. But I don't think they can get married by Churches anyway.
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actually, there are some churches in the US that are open to it.
This is another case where the US is behind the rest of the world
(first instance was slavery, all other countries had ended slavery long before the US had)
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I am against them. Why, I'm not too sure. But nonetheless, I do not agree to such things.
And Kiith, the next one word post I see of yours will net you a warning.
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The marriages. <-- Read the topic title.
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x, are you a religious person? Do you go to church a lot?
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No, I do not attend chruch. I suppose my parents decided I didn't need it. I am in no way a very zealous individual.
I developed a thesis, however. I think religion was develop as a control method. Think about it and don't ask me anymore regarding it.
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anyway...
I'm sorry x, but I must say your opinion on this sucks
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If they want to marry, let them...
I agree with CK9 ^
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The goal of life is to ensure the continued existance of the genepool, it also contains the search for knowledge...
Not accepting your own mortality is a weakness...
(keep in mind that the above statements does not reveal a fair picture of my believes)
Also, religious people tend to fall for simple hoaxes more often, just check the other thread with the sun standing still :lol:
But im not worried about the ones who said that "It's soo cool and soo truthful" as it clearly is a sarcastic answer...
Anyway this is pretty offtopic (...)
If 99% of the world population were living entities of stone would you like it if the stones banned marriage between creatures of flesh and blood...
(Note to self: Stone and meat does not make good comparative material...)
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I think that gay marriages should not be alowed. Because gays cannot have kids thus decreasing the growth rate of human population. The more gay people there are the bigger chance the human race has to become extinct.
Plus, this is a scientific fact that all people who are gay are born with it, it is a mental dicease that can and cannot be cured.
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The race going extinct... *cough* only one thing...
Gay people aren't going to reproduce (as said) thus it's not like they'll overrun the planet eventually...
Should infertile people not be allowed the marry either ?
Also if a lesbian friend wanted to have a marriage either because of the romantic ceremony or financial benefits i wouldn't want to deprive her of that happiness...
We all have a bit of mental disease dont we *crazy laugh*
*starts making sacrifices to the great potato god*
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I didnt say that you cannot be gay zircon, i just said that they should not get married. Because its just not natural to have sex with the same sex person. But whatever goes you know...
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I think that gay marriages should not be alowed. Because gays cannot have kids thus decreasing the growth rate of human population. The more gay people there are the bigger chance the human race has to become extinct.
Plus, this is a scientific fact that all people who are gay are born with it, it is a mental dicease that can and cannot be cured.
actually, it, it has been proven that it is not a disease, and that was just an excuse that was used to arrest more people. Think of it this way: The world is over-populated. Let the gays be gay, you have no right to tell other people who they can and cannot marry. It's like saying that Beavtoven should never have been born.
(note to slef, don't compare music and sexual preferences)
The idea that being Gay is a Disease comes from close-minded people who are trapped in their boxes.
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i believe that "homosexuals" (to be politicaly correct) should be allowed to have the ceremony if they want it but the state shouln't recognize it as anything more than 2 people sharing the rent on an apartment or whatever they are living in for _ reasons
(1) there is a passage in the bible that says it isnt right, i dun remember what book:verse:line it is but ill find it if i have to
(2) it decreases the population, if the all move to say, the state of MA then most of the population wont be having kids and MA's pop will drop to near nothing
(3) history: it wasnt allowed then, why start now?
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I don't think it should be allowed, in my opinion, very sick and wrong.
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i Think the same as most of you if they want to get married then more power to them (...)
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I think that it should be against the law. Gay marriages goes against the bible, and wether we'd like to admit it or not, the bible is big in the US. In court you swear on the bible, God is mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance, it is on our currency. I am a religious person and I support President Bush on his stand for an admendment to ban Gay Marriage. Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against gay people, I have friends that are, just like I dont' look down on people who don't believe in my god, I won't look down on people who have other beliefs. They can consider themselves married, but to have the state recognize them as being married is wrong.
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Zeus, you cannot say it is against the bible, as there are too many ways it can be interpreted. Imagine if one day I was pres... "And I promise, as your president, I will ensure that the nutral rights of all citizens of this grand country are protected and kept from the grasp of people who would have them taken away. And as my first order of business, I will take on those companies that would take something away from a small group just because they aren't making as much money as they want from it!" LMAO :heh:
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actually, it, it has been proven that it is not a disease, and that was just an excuse that was used to arrest more people. Think of it this way: The world is over-populated. Let the gays be gay, you have no right to tell other people who they can and cannot marry. It's like saying that Beavtoven should never have been born.
First of all, this makes no sence whatsoever. <_<
Zeus, you cannot say it is against the bible, as there are too many ways it can be interpreted.
Secondly, the bible is made to be interpreted only one way, literally.
I am sick of people, who do not even beileve the bible,when they try and interpret it to match their warped sence of perspective.
The bible was written as a history lesson. There is no way around it.
The bible says: "at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female"
Matthew 19:4
Notice how it does not say "Male and Male" or "Female and Female"
You can't get more litteral than that.
And in the bible, it says that people who do not have desires for women do have them naturally for the most part.
However, it also says that the individual to which this applies should not seek the same relationships with men as with women. Because that is not the natural order of things.
Also, not being attracted to women is not because you are a homosexual, today people believe that because of the warped view that the media and sosietal minority put out.
The bible clearly states that if there are no desires for a woman, then there should be no desires at all.
It also says that there is to be no sex outside of marrage (Which we cannot deny that the homosexual community is doing)
It also says (for those of us who believe the bible) that we are to love all people no matter what, However, it is the evil practices that we can tolerate, but not accept as a sosietal norm.
Also, the constitution says "The PURSUIT of happiness" not the guarentee of it.
Also, homosexual couples being considered married goes against the individual rights of the Majority of Americans who do not accept this behavior, and who do not want to recognize their marrages.
I think that the rights of the Majority should be upheld rather than the Minority.
Oh, and if you do not believe that the bible is true the way it is written, then all comments regarding interpretation of it is meer speculation.
You have to believe something is true before you have any right to try and "interpret" what it is meaning to say.
Nuff said.
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I think gays/lesbians getting married is sick, perverted and wrong.
I'm a Christian but I don't even need my faith to go against this, I've always thought being gay was wrong...
I live in a city where there are a "moderate" amount of gay people and most people that I talk to do not agree with gay marriage.
I agree with Phantom and it2000us.
Now think about it: You may not theoretically think much of it; but if you saw a gay/lesbian couple making out on the street etc you probably wouldn't want to see it. (I can tell you, I don't really like seeing that)
And like it2000 said, gay people can't make babies.... so after a while it would degenerate into the extinction of humanity.
The real reason gay people get together is for the "intimate love" relationship. ie. sex. Not for "to be together". They can do that anytime.... that would be like me going somewhere w/ a friend, etc.
Marriage is a union between a male and a female. I strongly believe, "It begins with Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."
(I'm sorry to anyone that is offended by this)
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"And like it2000 said, gay people can't make babies.... so after a while it would degenerate into the extinction of humanity."
What do you mean :unsure: :find:
It's not like they're going to increase in number :blink:
There's no logic behind such a statement :rolleyes:
If a city was populated by 100% of gay people it would become deserted eventually but gay people has existed since the beginning of time, even animals do it because of some reason. We should have already been extinct if their percentage would have increased over the years :heh:
Besides if it is a biological control mechanism there's nothing you can do about it.
Or perhaps you are one of those people that believe people choose to be gay, and then commit suicide just because of the fun part of it.
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Zircon - *sigh* With all this hate/dislike, discrimination and letting a book over two thousand years old guide your actions humanity will never progress
It may be a really old book, but it talks about the basics of humanity, so it does apply for day to day purposes. If you read it then you will see that it does involve almost everything we do everyday. No it doesn't say specific evernts like tomorrow's lottery ticket number's or anything like that, but it does guide us on the way that we should live and the rights and wrongs of life. No matter how technologically advanced we get, the basics of life will always remain the same.
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I care because the bible says that it is wrong in many different ways. No it doesn't quote "Men shall not kiss and do other gross stuff" or anything but in an around and about way, it does say that it shouldn't be done. It is just disturbing to see two men even just holding hands.
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Then there is no point in discussing this further, im satisfied ^_^
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And how so? What they choose is nobodies right to prevent except their own.
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I care because the bible says that it is wrong in many different ways. No it doesn't quote "Men shall not kiss and do other gross stuff" or anything but in an around and about way, it does say that it shouldn't be done. It is just disturbing to see two men even just holding hands.
It says this......
(It is talking to men here)
LEV 18:22 " `Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
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*sigh* With all this hate/dislike, discrimination and letting a book over two thousand years old guide your actions humanity will never progress
First of all, there is no hate or discrimination against anyone in the bible. It is the ACTs that are detestable, not the people themselves. To say otherwize is just out of ignorance.
As a note, im not screaming "Let the gay marry" im screaming "Why do you care if they marry or not?"
I'll tell you why we care, because it goes against the moral standerds of myself, and most of the country. Case closed.
And as I said earilier, we are to love the person, not their actions.
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phantom, you have no right to say that you speak for the majority. For all you know, the majority could be against you. Even if it is the majority, since when is it always right? Plato was forced to poison himself for his teachings, which today we hold many as true. The Majority thougt the world was flat. The majority thought that the universe revolved around the earth.
I'd rather die right now knowing that I stand for everyone having equal rights, the thing this country claims it stands for, than to live on and switch sides.
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"I'd rather die right now knowing that I stand for everyone having equal rights, the thing this country claims it stands for, than to live on and switch sides."
I hereby present the price for the best sentence (up to now) ever made on this forum to you CK, that kind of view on life should be sought by everyone. *applause*
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:eyebrow: are you making fun of me?
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No i wasn't :(
*sigh* When im joking people take me seriously and when im serious to the point hell would freeze over people think im making fun of them <_<
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it's just the way you say it. Only the people it affects should be able to vote on this.
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phantom, you have no right to say that you speak for the majority. For all you know, the majority could be against you. Even if it is the majority, since when is it always right? Plato was forced to poison himself for his teachings, which today we hold many as true. The Majority thougt the world was flat. The majority thought that the universe revolved around the earth.
I think it was Socraties that poisoned himself, but I could be wrong.
It has been polled by all countrywide poles that the majority do not accept gay marrage. I do not just make stuff up just to tick people off, I do research my info.
And the majority can be right and still dissagree with your point of veiw.
I'd rather die right now knowing that I stand for everyone having equal rights, the thing this country claims it stands for, than to live on and switch sides.
This would be a good sentance if it were an equal rights issue, but this is a moral issue not an equal rights issue. So, that was pretty out of place.
Anyways, it enfringes upon the rights of those who are forced to recognize the marrage if their religion goes against it, violating the first ammendment.
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To say that homosexuality is not natural is to be ignorant. Male dogs sniff other male dogs backsides (not sure about female dogs tho) and some deep-sea invertibrates often try to reproduce with either and/or BOTH: 1) The wrong species and 2) The same sex. If you want proof, just google for it. Wether or not it's a choice they make or if they just dont know what they're screwing we're not sure of, but nonetheless they continue to do so.
Gay marrage isn't a problem; though i may dislike the thought of it, who am i to say that my thoughts and beliefs should be imposed on anyone? If they are happy, i am happy that they are happy; i suck it up, and keep living. Though i dislike the event of a homosexual couple kissing in a public place, i dont really care if they're told to stop or not; it's not me in that position.
Bad, Good, Evil - these are arbitrary. They will varry from one person from another; this is why we have wars. Thought good by another, thought evil from the other. By this it's impossible to force someone to do something against their will. They will continue their thought of it, for as long as they can live. What is deemed evil/good by one religion will fade away (may not completely dissapear) if said religion ends.
Gay marrage isn't a morality or human rights issue... it's an empathy issue. For referance, Empathy is: "Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives." If you can't put yourself "in their shoes," how are you to know if you're hurting them or not?
Too much hate... Too much ignorance... Not enough love... Not enough empathy. :find:
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I'd rather die right now knowing that I stand for everyone having equal rights, the thing this country claims it stands for, than to live on and switch sides.
This would be a good sentance if it were an equal rights issue, but this is a moral issue not an equal rights issue. So, that was pretty out of place.
Anyways, it enfringes upon the rights of those who are forced to recognize the marrage if their religion goes against it, violating the first ammendment.
it is a matter of equal rights, phantom. Just because it is against your moral standards, doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to choose to marry.
and as maveric pointed out, it happens in many species, not just humans. We overcrowd the world, so what if a group of people are diffeent from you? Adressing (I believe) Lev's statement, so what if they are unable to reproduce and continue the species? There are millions of people who can do that, and everyone can have the same rights still.
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Male dogs sniff other male dogs backsides (not sure about female dogs tho)
Ok, this example makes no sence whatsoever.
What is deemed evil/good by one religion will fade away (may not completely dissapear) if said religion ends.
Well, it hasnt faded for 6000+ years, and I don't think it will be anytime soon.
First of all Maveric is giving non sensical and unrelated examples.
You are comparing animals that have no sence of anything to human beings which are the only sentient life on the planet.
It makes no sence to compare creatures that have no knowledge of right and wrong to those who do.
Plus, it is not natural. In some animal species it is, but this is not the case with humans.
Plus, Homosexuality reffers to sexual acts. The people called this are not just calling themselves this because they like to live with the same sex.
it's impossible to force someone to do something against their will
Yes, that is the case with both sides of the argument, this is a majority rules statement.
And in this case like it or not, the fact is that the majority will rule in this case regardless of whether we like it or not.
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phantom, 6000? don't you mean hundred? Christianity has not been around 6000 years yet.
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Okay, I totally agree with OP2 hacker. I am also a christian. Just think would you mind 2 gay males hanging around your 4 year old son? Which would warrant greater concern? Two Gay males or Two straight as a ruler dudes?
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Ofcourse we understand that, but does that give you the right to deny them marry because of your morals.
Besides, why would they want to hang around your 4 year old son :blink:
Gay isnt the same as pedophilia.
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From what i hear, gay people are born with a bad mind mentaly thats why they'r gay. Its like genetics, in my oppinion you can be gay as long as you want but im deffinetly against gay marriage. Because lets just face it, its not normal in our world to mary same sex. So thats why we should stick to the rules and beliefs of our world. If you dont like it o well.
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phantom, 6000? don't you mean hundred? Christianity has not been around 6000 years yet.
Christianity has been around 2000 years yes, however, the old testement, in which the law is written, was written and recorded well over six thousand years ago.
Gay isnt the same as pedophilia.
However the same group (ACLU) that supports gay marrage also supports Child/Adult sex.
It is true that homosexuals may be born with different likes and dislikes. However, it is their choice whether to have same sex relations or not.
And the parents of homosexuals don't help much.
For example, in a report, a mother is quoted saying
"I knew that he was gay when he was three. He liked the color pink."
The parents then give special/abnormal treatment to the boy, causing him to believe he is gay.
First of all, not only is this total absurdity (What person in their right mind would say that Pink is a homosexual color?) but it contributed to abnormal thinking that led to eventual homosexuality.
And since the beginning of recorded history, it is recorded that homosexuality was not even allowed, much less tolerated.
Gay marrage would infringe on my rights, and the rights of every other person who is against homosexual marrage.
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And what right is that?
Chritianity as a religion has many flaws in it, as with budism and Jewdism. I bet I could find flaws in other religions too if I knew enough about them.
The worst part about this debate is that you guys keep saying it isn't natural. There is one example that stands out in my mind that would show otherwise: Kowalas. It is quite natural for a female in a group of them to mimic the acts of a male during that season.
and for another that is less prominant, in some species of snakes, a male will make itself appear as a female in order to get the other males to go after him so ha can be the only one after the real female.
I realy shouldn't have watched the National Geographic channel from ages 4 to 10
(woa, I just moticed a giant welt on my arm, I guess the trees hate me, lol)
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Again, sentient beings are being compared to the non-sentient.
There is no comparison between humans and animals. Sorry to say but it is true.
Plus, saying that flaws are in a religion is an opinion, and seeing as how every other religion has changed in a matter of a few hundred years, the bible has not changed in over six thousand, this is proven from carbon dating of old scrolls that were found.
Anyways, it is not natural for the HUMAN race. I don't really care about what animals do what.
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Again, sentient beings are being compared to the non-sentient.
There is no comparison between humans and animals. Sorry to say but it is true.
Plus, saying that flaws are in a religion is an opinion, and seeing as how every other religion has changed in a matter of a few hundred years, the bible has not changed in over six thousand, this is proven from carbon dating of old scrolls that were found.
Anyways, it is not natural for the HUMAN race. I don't really care about what animals do what.
sorry to break it to you phantom, but humans are animals.
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I was making the comparison between sentient and non-sentient beings CK9, not if humans are animals or not.
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For those types of animals it may be the only way to reproduce....
Also you must remember some animals are hermaphrodites (have both male and female sex organs) so they can have sex with themselves OR with each other...
Comparing animals that dont have a high level brain (I'll put other primates here too.. its not like most gorillas can write and drive and do taxes etc) to humans doesn't hold any water.
I also don't think being gay is in born. So you can't say they can't help it. It is learned. (Sure there are some genetic variables that can help influence a person to be gay or straight, but that doesn't decide 100 % of the picture). Genes are the only way you can inherit traits, and there's no gene that *will be* the deciding factor whether the person is gay or not.
Therefore you can't call it "Something they can't help" because part of it is chosen by them.
Being gay is seen as wrong by most people in this country... It's just not considered normal.
Just because maybe male to male contact between animals is normal for the animals, but it's not normal for humans.
Btw CK... I don't think the religion has flaws itself, its flaws in how it's interpreted.
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Gay marrage is not protected by the 9th amendment.
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
The statement means that the constitution cannot be changed to violate rights as set by the constitution.
There is nothing in the constitution that gives gives rights to gay marrage, therefore, an ammendment banning same sex marrage would not be in violation.
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I was making the comparison between sentient and non-sentient beings CK9, not if humans are animals or not.
your wording flat out implies that you find them seperate.
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Do you know what sentient and non-sentient means?
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im sorry but gay/les. marriges are the sickest thing ever. if any1 gets mad at my next sentence, sry, but in the bible is said that god made men and women to live and mate together, not men and men and not women and women. i think it is just sick. thats my opinion.
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Same with me. The problem is that it is imposed on those who do not support it in the way of "tolerance teachings" in classrooms, the reading of homosexual literature, and by critisisms of people speak out against it.
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I totally agree with that statement. Homosexuals are sick and demented. And if you really research all the diseases that are found as a result of "gay sex" it's not worth it.
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AIDS included in that. Which is the cause of millions of deaths in Africa.
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I just read through all this and replied to everything I deemed replyable.
You're all living in the past man....a couple thousand years in the past! :P
Secondly, the bible is made to be interpreted only one way, literally.
The bible says: "at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female"
Literally, that means "in the beginning he made male and female". It doesn't mention a thing about marriage. :P
Now think about it: You may not theoretically think much of it; but if you saw a gay/lesbian couple making out on the street etc you probably wouldn't want to see it. (I can tell you, I don't really like seeing that)
I wouldn't want to see anyone slobering over eachother.
And like it2000 said, gay people can't make babies.... so after a while it would degenerate into the extinction of humanity.
The real reason gay people get together is for the "intimate love" relationship. ie. sex. Not for "to be together". They can do that anytime.... that would be like me going somewhere w/ a friend, etc.
Ok, two things: The world's population is growing, TOO FAST! That's why there are millions dieing of starvation every day. :lol:
Second: They don't need to be married to have sex... :huh:
Plato was forced to poison himself for his teachings, which today we hold many as true. The Majority thougt the world was flat. The majority thought that the universe revolved around the earth.
Babylonians figured it out in sometime BC.(Forget when)
This would be a good sentance if it were an equal rights issue, but this is a moral issue not an equal rights issue. So, that was pretty out of place.
No it's not...sex is a moral issue, marriage is a rights issue.
Because lets just face it, its not normal in our world to mary same sex.
Not normal in our world to have sex with the same gender.
"I knew that he was gay when he was three. He liked the color pink."
Phanton: I agree. Pink is a calming colour, and red is an aggressive colour. If he likes pink, I wonder if he'd like blue?(as that's also calming) I like blue. Pink is nice too. I think fast though, so red would be horrible for me.
There is no comparison between humans and animals. Sorry to say but it is true.
Correct. Animals live in harmony with nature. :) Humans destroy whatever gets in our path, in the name of progress. :)
|-|Umo|ns r teh r0xors. o|N1ma!s r teh sux0rs!
Just because maybe male to male contact between animals is normal for the animals, but it's not normal for humans.
|-|Umo|ns r teh r0xors. o|N1ma!s r teh sux0rs!
I totally agree with that statement. Homosexuals are sick and demented. And if you really research all the diseases that are found as a result of "gay sex" it's not worth it.
About the same as if you had sex with lots of the opposite gender.
AIDS included in that. Which is the cause of millions of deaths in Africa.
That's true. I wonder where they got that AIDS from. :whistle:
Ok, now I hope I don't get banned. :D
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From what i hear, gay people are born with a bad mind mentaly thats why they'r gay
studys show that is partially true
I don't think the religion has flaws itself, its flaws in how it's interpreted.
oh how frikin true
actually, there are some churches in the US that are open to it.
nasty
the bible has not changed in over six thousand years
true.
k. sry had to get that out. i hope i dont get banned as well. hehe
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weeeeeeeeeeeeeee aint seen one of these in ages
i must say i am very dissapointed in some of you, very close minded you are
for starters, how can u dismiss the link between homosexual animals, and homosexual humans
sure we are sentiant and can make consious decisions, but the subconsious drive, its exactly the same as that of animals
a stright guy is attracted 2 a girl, they cant help it, they just are, coz of that subcoinsious thing, u cant pick who u fancy. same as u are in a realtionship, ur in love, u brake up.. u cant just turn off that hurt, u cant turn off those feelings, coz of the subconsious elemnt
its the same with a homosexual person, they cant help the subconsious feeling that makes them attracted 2 a guy, they just are, and they CANT help that
yes, theres choise in wether they do anything with a guy, but, theres no choise in the feelings, cmon, really, if it was easy 2 choose do u think they wood chose 2 b in the minority and b rejected by most ppl? hardly
u sayign a gay person cant love another guy, and they must love a woman, and stay with a woman, is just like telling a stright person they have 2 go with a guy, it just DOESNT work
and onto the subject of marrage, im not neciserally sure if marage is correct, since after all its a religious ceronemy and homosexuality is typicly shunned by the church, but when 2 ppl get married, its not for the sex, or for the contact between them, its for the emotioanl attachemnt, now 2 guys in love, or 2 girls in love have the exact same feelings, they should be entitled to a ceronemeny (kinda like marrage) which acknowledges their feelings, their partnership, and then entitles themto the same rights as a "couple"
now lets see how many ppl go to flame me >_<
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Don't worry, you aren't going to get banned, this is a debate!
It does have a passage in the Bible saying that "a man should not lie with a man as he does a woman", and it does refer to marriage as a union between man and woman and nothing else.
And I agree with what Phantom said about "tolerance teachings". I believe that if we keep getting all upset if someone gets called (a bad name), we'll someday end up with a total reverse of the Holocaust:
a genocide against people who "hate" (those who disagree with the tolerance "be nice to *everyone*" crap.)
No, I don't think being gay is normal. I think if someone who is gay/lesbian comes here and reads this, they should not be offended. That's just what I believe. Nor do I get all mad if I hear a gay person saying being straight is just screwed up. If it was in school, no I wouldn't go running down to the guidance office so I can whine that someone called straight people stupid or whatever bad name they want to give them, I'd just forget about it.
We *can* disagree with people, we don't have to do this "tolerate everyone! if you disagree with them you hate them and you should burn in hell, etc etc" crap.
Preach tolerance too much and you'll get the reverse effect of hate. Hating people who hate.
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It does have a passage in the Bible saying that "a man should not lie with a man as he does a woman", and it does refer to marriage as a union between man and woman and nothing else.
THANKYOU.
Secondly, the bible is made to be interpreted only one way, literally.
The bible says: "at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female"
Literally, that means "in the beginning he made male and female". It doesn't mention a thing about marriage.
There you go.
sry but this burns me up, i just hope that nobody gets ticked at me. please tell me if you are.
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okay, you guys are really pi$$ing me off. you are looking into and quoting sources from people who are homophobic and ones that have been proven false. My uncle is gay, he is neither sick nor demented, and he has no mental problems. some of you claim you have nothing against my belief about reincarnation, yet you can't respect someone's right to marry? You guys are acting just like those idiots who want to kill the otherkin communities because of a few stupid steriotypes. Compare this to other issues in history. Segregation (yes, it is the same concept in this issue), Medievil surfs (couldn't get married unless the king approved it), many things in the history of this world alone are similar, and each one no longer exists.
think about it, your sources are coming from homophobics, they cannot keep their research unbiust.
EDIT: had to change a little language usage
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k, im not fighting anymore but you no whats nasty. when ther is 3 14 year old girls on a ship for a french day thing. (dont ask long story) and one is givng one a lap dance while the other is like making out the the lap-danceee. EEEEEEEEW. . sry but thats nasty. i dont care what they do on there own time. but not in pub.
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okay, at that age they shouldn't be thinking about that. Then again, people used to get married at 12...
all I have to say is, if you don't want to see it don't look. it isn't like a mother walking around a store while breast-feeding (i was mentally disturbed for a week after seeing that when I was 7)
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it isn't like a mother walking around a store while breast-feeding (i was mentally disturbed for a week after seeing that when I was 7)
their is a law saying they can do that
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but when 2 ppl get married, its not for the sex, or for the contact between them, its for the emotioanl attachemnt
Mostly for the benifets and not as much the emotional attachment.
you are looking into and quoting sources from people who are homophobic and ones that have been proven false
The only source I get my information from is the Bible. And of course, my own opinions.
some of you claim you have nothing against my belief about reincarnation, yet you can't respect someone's right to marry
"Marrage" was given only between a Man and a Woman when it was first used.
You guys are acting just like those idiots who want to kill the otherkin communities because of a few stupid steriotypes.
First of all, there are few, and secluded situations in which hate crimes have been used against homosexuals. The news however politicizes these issues to make people such as yourself angry, and to go through with their political agenda.
Compare this to other issues in history. Segregation (yes, it is the same concept in this issue), Medievil surfs (couldn't get married unless the king approved it), many things in the history of this world alone are similar, and each one no longer exists.
It is not in the least fair to compare segregation to homosexuality. The African American community had to suffer very horrible cercumstances in those times that homosexuals do not have to face today. Medival surf marrage was still between one man and one woman.
Look, if someone wants to be a Homosexual, well who cares? When they want to force their agendas, and tolerance on us though, then it's another story.
They brought the critisisms upon themselves by forcing their ideals and teachings upon us.
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"if sum1 wants to be homosexual"
wah??? no1 chooses their sexuality
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wah??? no1 chooses their sexuality
Sure they do. I don't believe homosexuality is inborn or can be inherited thru genes. (It may appear that way because perhaps the parents are homosexuals who adopted their child) There are "triggers" that can cause people to think a certain way.
For example consider Hitler brainwashing the people in Germany (not the Jews but the non Jewish Germans that became part of the Nazi party). He used propaganda and other methods to brainwash people and children into believing that the Nazi's were wonderful people and that they were the "master race"; that all Jews should be killed and that they were called to eliminate Jews. People did believe this.
Same thing can happen with homosexuality, for example people and other influences (like media, those "Tolerance" groups, being forced to be around people of the same sex all the time, etc) can persuade a person to become homosexual.
They can choose. Many believe that they are "stuck in it" but that's not true - you can get out of it.
You guys are acting just like those idiots who want to kill the otherkin communities because of a few stupid steriotypes.
No one ever said we wanted to kill them. We dislike their lifestyle but we don't hate them as a person.
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im out of this 'debate' someppl are gonna loose a lot of friends over this one.
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I never said you wanted to kill them, I said you arte acting liike those people. You quote sources that give steriotypical info, you claim that they are all sick and demented, and you refuse to look at the other side. If have looked at this from both sides, and I must say that the foundation of your side looks like it was made in a hurry to try and make it look like it was more strongly based and farther along.
and Phantom, the bible isn't a source, because it can be interpreted many ways. An ideal society would have done away with it and started doing some research to get completely factual accountings.
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i found it!!!
Leviticus 18:22- you shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination
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What can be termed as factual?
The only book that has actually said "This is what to believe" is the Bible.
It's based off a lot of experience of people that lived before us, that learned the hard way what can go wrong.
There is no such thing as a totally neutral non biased source. Even though at glance something may appear neutral, upon closer examination you can tell that it's swayed one way or another.
It is not humanly possible to be completely neutral. You have to stand for something.
And if someone doesn't like the way someone else thinks (ie. gay marriage) they have every right to have that belief. No they can't go out and kill them cuz they dont like them, but they can think a certain way.
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who said anything about being neutral
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Same thing can happen with homosexuality, for example people and other influences (like media, those "Tolerance" groups, being forced to be around people of the same sex all the time, etc) can persuade a person to become homosexual.
This is the main cause of homosexuality, dispite what others may think.
and Phantom, the bible isn't a source, because it can be interpreted many ways. An ideal society would have done away with it and started doing some research to get completely factual accountings.
Well, except for the fact that there are 2 billion christians in the world, it would be kind of hard to get rid of.
Do you have a PhD? If not, then who are you to say if it is not a source or not? That is your opinion and not a fact.
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Nazi's were wonderful people and that they were the "master race"; that all Jews should be killed and that they were called to eliminate Jews. People did believe this.
Some believed that. Others just wanted to protect their families. If you go against someone that powerful, you...or your family...dies.
k, im not fighting anymore
Then...
im out of this 'debate' someppl are gonna loose a lot of friends over this one.
Then more posts. :D
Ahh, how to say this. :P Although this doesn't really have anything to do with this debate, I find that many people that base their oppinions on what they learned from "a book" closed minded.
Who needs a book really? Often "right" is extremely easy to figure out. The guilt would kill you though, in some situations.
Then again, according to everyone I know "right" isn't obvious at all in many situations. Most of those people are relgious for some reason.
That makes me think that people that can't figure it out themselves often rely on another source, such as the Bible, to make decisions for them. This forces me to conclude that Religion is a neccesity for the betterment of the world, even though it trains closed-minded individuals, because it isn't bad(usually) to use age-old wisdom.
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Do you have a PhD? If not, then who are you to say if it is not a source or not? That is your opinion and not a fact.
And it's your oppinion that it is a source. :P But since neither of you are "without a doubt right", the Bible is neither a source nor not a source. Lol :lol:
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If it's worked for 6000+ years, then it can still work today.
And it's your oppinion that it is a source. But since neither of you are "without a doubt right", the Bible is neither a source nor not a source. Lol
Basically only those who believe it is true can consider it a source since it has been governing people for thousands of years.
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before I reply to that, I just want to repeat this so it can be seen:
the best part of this forum: we can P!$$ eachother off in the debate forum and still be friends in the rest of the boards.
now:
but people put faith in many things blindly. Rome fell because the people had faith that it would never fall. ironic, isn't it?
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{
the best part of this forum: we can P!$$ eachother off in the debate forum and still be friends in the rest of the boards.
That's what debate is all about! lol}
but people put faith in many things blindly. Rome fell because the people had faith that it would never fall. ironic, isn't it?
It is also ironic that the biggest persecutor of christianity, became the Roman Catholic Church. lol.
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lol, shows the contridictions within itself
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You can use the word "piss", it's not censored.. you don't have to censor it manually.
Following the Bible isn't blindly believing. There are things in there that did happen. There is proof.
For example, an early example is the great flood. For example:
GE 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded. 2 Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky. 3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, 4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.
Recently, ancient wooden remains were located at the top of Mt. Ararat (within the last century.)
This proves it well.
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Source?
Mountain... Mountains erode... If they erode there is no possible protective surface, without a protective structure on the mountain things disapear (rot, fungus, decomposition) if the mountain is cold cellulosa could survive for a long time but with avalanches etc... it would be washed away...
If the Earth was covered with water for so long you would see evidence in earth layers that it was covered, different PH, algae, remains, the typical characterisitcs of an ocean you know etc...
Then there's the in-breeding... Also i have to wonder... Where do black people come from, did noah have a couple of those as well...
Again.. A mountain, i have yet to see a swedish mountain that doesn't or haven't had trees on them... Trees die, they leave remains if you're lucky the remains stay there... [refer to above as well]
It's like, ooohh, a round stoneball below my house, this clearly proves there are pokemon, and this was a pokeball (http://www.bonetweb.com/Zircon/smilies/crazy.gif)
I mean god, i could go on forever. Forever with things to disproove this, when someone asks if i can disproove god, no... i cant.. but this... i mean... woah... my litttle brother could explain this when he was four...
I think im going to run outside and dance in the rain, humanity reached a new low today (http://www.bonetweb.com/Zircon/smilies/fstare.gif)
Ladada ladadi ladada ladadi
*throws biology/marinelife/space/focus books into the air*
I mean physics/biology/chemistry grade 1 read it...
I mean a solarsail with a magnetosphere and a drunken a guy with a story about the sun standing still and people say "true true" (that's like the biggest hoax known on the web)
I've got a math test tomorrow (http://www.bonetweb.com/Zircon/smilies/fstare.gif) it messes with the brain...
I so wish Zhen Lin was here or even new-er-bie (even if he was a die hard christian he was more "down to earth" then this) would be a saint at this point *sobs*
Proof *hysterical laugh*
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goota love science. some of the stories have some fact, but they all are glorified, and thus believing in them completely is having blind faith
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yah. i dont believe in all science studies. but i do belive in this one
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Well last time I checked logs that appear to be cut by man didn't end up on top of a mountain that's in a desert/sandy area.
And Zircon: you say they would be gone due to erosion, etc. So that would mean there would be no evidence. Use logical reasoning:
If the mountain was disturbed by erosion, then there would be no evidence.
There is evidence.
Therefore you can logically conclude that the mountain was not disturbed.
(Modus Tollens: Given the implication p->q, the statement ~q is believed to be true. Therefore ~p also has to be true.)
(~p is another way of saying not p, AKA the inverse of p.)
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but, Hacker, remember this part of it:
p->q, yet r/>p thus if ~q and ~r are believed to be true, ~p is a paradox
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where is R coming from? I'm not talking Law of Syllogism.
There isn't other stuff to Modus Tollens.
Mathematically itd be written:
p -> q
~q
_______
.:. ~p
(can't do therefore symbol easily)
and remember if you are trying to negate an implication with that /> (is that what it's supposed to be?)
you'd really get p ^ ~q (p and not q)
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ummm. yeah.
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if this then that, but if the other than not this
and
~that and ~the other ~this = paradox
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ooooooh. i have another source. you no how we have satelites up in space. well they were tracking time back and sending in signals of time and th signals stoped coming in so the scients studied it and found that there was a day in history missing. well if you look it up in the bible it says that God had speed up time or somthing and a day was gone. im not sure if i have it right. i probably dont but there is a day missing in time and in the bible.
You mean to say you fell for the biggest and somewhat old hoax ever :angry:
http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=632 (http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=632)
Harold Hill was a drunken guy who was hired to fill the tanks with gas!
The incident if so to call it never took place, NASA has declared this over and over for ages. This is pathetic... 40! Years! and people still haven't gotten this thing out of their heads...
Make a search for it on the web (google is your friend ;) ) It's mentioned in books, media, everywhere documentaries etc!
People wouldn't even comment when i punched their balloon into pieces with facts that even the church agrees upon...
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OP2hacker, post a source!
And i didn't say erosion destroyed the "evidence" the erosion which happens all the time would remove the protective layer, without a protective layer cellulosa would disappear in not much time at all.
And why not answer the other questions, like your magnetosphere, or black people, in-breeding etc. Afraid or simple self denial ?
And a sandy place of all things, if it was a place with never melting glaciers it would make things more valid but ever blowing sand and counting the drasticly changing temperatures a log would dissapear in less then a year...
Fossils survive (bonemass) because they exist in a rather calm area below the surface, if it were to blow and they were exposed they'd quickly be disfigured beyond recognition. And bonemass is very hardy, tree is not...
When they find mud graves several meters below the surface in optimal preserving environments tree is often long gone and they only find the stone axe itself...
Plus the desert isn't friendly against anything as they even have mean micro organisms.
As you're unable to bring up anything that holds any value i'll give you one.
Moses (or whatever his name was) when he was going to lead his people out of the country and made the waters split apart, that actually happens.
When the earth in combination with the moon and sun can in rare instances make the waters draw away but just in a rather narrow path, as the passage of the planets last only about half an hour it would leave him with time to pass the waters and then it would close behind him, no im not talking of a solid waterwall like in movies.
It's like the everyday happenings at the sea but a stronger force.
The mystery behind it is how they knew about it and how in earths name they managed to be there at that exact moment (if they were there that is)
But a gigantic ocean covering the Earth, that's just... sad...
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/04/26/noah.ark.ap/ (http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/04/26/noah.ark.ap/)
2 (http://istina.rin.ru/eng/ufo/text/282.html)
Their results will prove interesting mr.wealreadyfoundtheark unknownsourcium...
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My source was NBC News (TV). It said they found remains (don't know if they saw them firsthand, or took images from space), yes I know they can't prove 100% sure that's it's the Ark but it's the most reasonable to believe because that's the only recorded history that mentions objects on top of Mt. Ararat.
What I am saying is, the remains must have been preserved if they found something at the top of the mountain.
As far as black people, I believe that the first people were a "mix of all races." Remember that color of the skin is controlled by multiple alleles. (like between black, oriental, etc) Also there is incomplete dominance involved.
Using this simplified model (yes it is much more complex than this, there are many genes that control this) I'll try to explain:
D = light
d = dark
Now assume both parents are carrying heterozygous dominant (Genotype=Dd)
Now I can draw a Punnett square:
Phenotype with incomplete dominance:
1 White : 2 tan : 1 Black
Therefore different skin colors can come from that.
Referring to the magnetosphere, the solar sail creates a magnetic field that particles bounce off that are coming from the sun, creating thrust for the ship.
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NBC! :lol: :lol: I watch that channel whenever I want to laugh. :lol:
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Referring to the magnetosphere, the solar sail creates a magnetic field that particles bounce off that are coming from the sun, creating thrust for the ship.
Im guessing by now that you're referring to the Magnetic Sail (http://www.fact-index.com/m/ma/magnetic_sail.html)
They work on two different principles, solarsails make use of a mirror.
The solarsail they (have and will launch again) launched into space had nothing to do with a magnetic field.
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As for the other things, true true, and we'll have to wait for more results before arguing more :P It is foolish to speculate on it from either side...
Extreme cold is very effective especially when in an ice casing because the oxygen among other will have trouble "attacking" the material.
And they were images from space, that's why the curious millionairs are sending expeditions.
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:mellow: how many people are actually understanding all this?
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I've got about half of it, but I missed most of what op2hacker said. :huh:
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Guys, I think this topic is on gay marrages. If you want to debate religion, there is another debate here. (http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=796&st=60)
lol, but what do I know?
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yah. i dont get it either.
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it's you guys using the bible that makes it go to religion...
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okay, this is hillarious, just before I decided to check if OUF was working, I found this:
Subject Date Author
F@g-haters make baby Jesus cry: an editorial response by God
5-24-04 4:40:08pm Emilis
I was recently spending some time at Westlake Center in Seattle WA, and was so unlucky as to be witness to an anti-gay/anti-marriage rally. At this rally, a man in a white robe was speaking an ancient language and, every once in a while, he and the surrounding crowd (of about 200), would hail Hitler, or possibly Satan -- guessing from the fact that because there was no goats' blood on the sidewalk, it was not Satan. There were also signs that said "No!!! Homosexuality" or "No!!! Same-sex marriage" (the grammatical errors of which I will go into momentarily), and one great one that said "It's not God's will".
Now, I don't want you kids to get Me wrong or anything, but don't tell me what is and is not My will. I am sick and tired of you humans using Me to justify your hate. I mean, come on, isn't it a little cowardly of you to hate on something you ASSUME that I don't like, in stead of just realizing that you don't like it and hate from there. Further more who are you -- any of you! -- to presume to know what I like and don't like. I will tell you personally if I don't like something you do: you'll either get a smack on the back of the head, or I'll have your cat get hit by a car. So grow a pair, alright? Geezie Creezie, it's just really annoying, and after all I have done for you (this planet -- which you have, by the way, destroyed -- for one; and each other for two), you just assume that I don't like something when you have no possible way to know or understand Me.
Okay, now the grammar of these signs "No!!! Homosexuality" is terrible. I gave you language, and you've f-ed that up too! Any way, as we all can gather from the fact that this was an anti-gay/anti-marriage rally, it was meant in the form of "No Homosexuality" or "No to homosexuality", however, this gross miss-use of the already abhorrent exclaimation point, denotes that they are actually arguing against something with this "No!!! Homosexuality". I know most of you understand the frame up of your respecive languages, but this is, (on top of their being presumptuous about what is My will and what is not), just more fuel added to the other side of the issue: idiots are the only ones opposing opposing homosexuals -- whether that is actually true or not is up to Me to decide, not you.
As you already know, you are all My children, and I love you. I really do (mostly because as a parent I can't not love you, because Cosmic social services are pretty mad about me casting you out of paradise but you deserved it and they agreed -- different issue), but you need to stop using Me and what you think it is that I want as a means of justifying your hate. As I said before, grow a pair and start hating on your own standards, Medamnit!
All the love in the universe (literally),
God
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just had to share this one here... and everywhere. I was so pissed about that rally, especially since I was hanging out with God during my lunch hour at work and that was what we had to listen to while we were trying to talk. God was just as mad as I was, and so she wrote this and gave it to me after I got home from work.
~Em
"Love is the only answer
Hate is the root of cancer then"
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It's both hilarious and rediculous at the same time.
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any yet it is soo true, who are we humans to say what is God's whim if there is a God?
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*waves hands around crystal ball*
I predict the answer to come *hum*
....
*falls asleep*
*falls off chair*
Oh, yes... The answer...
They have the "holy" scripture written by #1 ofcourse :rolleyes:
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LMAO, wow, a scripture written in the interpritation of a story by a human
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back on topic
i herd on the news that a state in the USA has just made it legal for same sex marrages and there was a big load of people wating to get married wen they did it. i think this is the way foward and hopefully this will encorrage more states to follow suite
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Wait, was it lev or it that was saying something...*looks back a few pages*
okay, it was it.
I agree with you there lev, as it should not be disallowed just because some people think that it is immoral and it is against a religious belief?
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bcuz of religious beliefs it will stay ilegal/wrong in some places
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I meant that it was hillarious and rediculous that the author was calling God a "she".
Also, the Klu-Klux-Klan go under the guise of Christianity in order to make people like you fall for their foolishness as true Christianity.
And is isn't "some" people are against Homosexual marrage, most are.
Also, any male has the right to marry a female, and any female has the right to marry a male.
So as you can see, everyone has equal rights. So that is not an issue.