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Projects & Development => OutpostHD => Projects => Graphics Update => Topic started by: White Claw on September 28, 2018, 06:41:24 PM

Title: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 28, 2018, 06:41:24 PM
I guess my karmic payback for building a fast commercial building is that I'm having a hard time with the medical center.

Here are two version, though they don't quite look like medical centers to me. I think I will build up a third option that will likely be more blockish and modular (so it looks like hospital wings).

Looking for any feedback, but also weigh in the fact that I stopped early on option 1 (because I didn't like the progress).
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: chris2222 on September 28, 2018, 07:26:29 PM
Maybe it's the buildings shape that needs to change?  Maybe make it square building (or a multiple square modular type building), have a white circle with a red plus sign in the middle to signify the hospital kind of like a landing pad on the top?? Just a thought.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 12:00:15 AM
Maybe it's the buildings shape that needs to change?

Yes, I agree. I went for something different and tried to get more of a hospital feel. I also took your suggestion and put a red plus sign on top. :)  (Though a "landing pad" is a bit out of the question, given that this will be underground.)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on September 29, 2018, 12:08:51 AM
I like the overall feeling of the third revision though the red cross cannot be used (trademark infringement with the Red Cross organization... they get really pissy when people use the 'red cross' likeness to represent health in games).
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 12:29:55 AM
Right you are. I've changed the scheme to green. Just straight green didn't work as well, because the contrast clashed. So I went with a glow.

Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: Hooman on September 29, 2018, 05:33:53 AM
Huh, so that explains all the green crosses that started appearing in video games for health packs. Well, I just learned something.

Apparently the red cross is more of a "don't shoot" symbol, with the bearer protected by the Geneva convention, more so than anything to do with health.


Anyway, I really like the first set of buildings, but you're right, they don't much look like a hospital. The later set definitely looks more like a hospital. I think I preferred the big "H" over the cross symbol. It's less ugly than a green cross, and the "H" does actually mean hospital.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: chris2222 on September 29, 2018, 08:05:43 AM
Did not realized that about the red cross. 

Ok, I like the idea of the H.  How about a white H on a blue background on the side of the building.  Like the one on the attached hospital.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on September 29, 2018, 11:04:12 AM
Is the white H on a blue background a universal hospital symbol? That's how it's done in the US but I'm unsure about other countries...

>does some google fu<

Seems there is no universally accepted symbol for "Hospital"... but the white H on a blue background seems about as close as possible.

I did come across this which we could use for icons in the game (well, at least as a sort of guide for the important stuff).
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: chris2222 on September 29, 2018, 11:39:34 AM
Canada is the same, but I'm not sure of outside of North America but pretty sure it's universal.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 01:47:07 PM
I don't disagree that the green cross "needs work."

So, in the mean time, I've built the nursery.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
Also, I didn't mention it because I was curious if anyone would pick up on it. The shape of the hospital was inspired by the EMS symbol.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Star_of_life2.svg/192px-Star_of_life2.svg.png)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on September 29, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
Ya know, I thought so? But I thought I was being weird.

Some blue accents on the nursery I think would help it to stand out a bit, kinda like on the original structure (which is a repurpose of some other structure from the original game, not sure what it was originally). Otherwise I like the overall shape.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 02:30:34 PM
Another version of the medical building.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 03:01:18 PM
More nursery color variations. I think I like "C" the best. I included "A" again (with no changes) for ease of comparison.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 05:56:09 PM
First attempt at the underground park.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 29, 2018, 06:47:29 PM
Well, I can't seem to stop fiddling with the park. I went for a bit more of a grand design (more in line with the original) and brightened it up further.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on September 30, 2018, 02:02:56 AM
Looks good but I'm a little concerned about the shadow clipping... Can we soften the edges or allow the shadow to go past the edge of the tile plane?

(https://snag.gy/fQ2wJv.jpg)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on September 30, 2018, 02:10:11 AM
I played with the hues and vibrance a bit for the Park to kinda get the blues and greens to 'pop' a bit more, make it a little more lively. Is it garish or does it work better?

(https://forum.outpost2.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6180.0;attach=1524) (https://snag.gy/ZkWmKI.jpg)

And another one without the structure color itself changing:

(https://snag.gy/XijQ8P.jpg)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 30, 2018, 11:14:41 AM
I've been concerned about the shadow clipping for a while now, and I've managed to keep most buildings low enough that it's either not a factor or hardly noticeable. I can let the shadow spill over, but I had some concerns (not knowing some of the inner workings of the game engine).

I assume the tiles are drawn first, then the buildings over the top? If that's the case, then most of the technical issues are not a factor. That leaves my last concern, which is that shadows spilling over to neighboring tiles won't properly fall on any of the neighboring structures. I.e. in the case below, if the park dropped a shadow on the tube to the university, it will appear "flat" across the tube.

On the plus side, in this very specific example of the park, the building is big enough that it obscures it's own shadow for the top left tube. So ultimately not a factor here, but it is a factor in some other cases (such as the attached comm tower). I originally had a smaller version of the park, but I felt that if people were going to go through the trouble of building a relatively non-utilitarian structure during a survival situation, it would probably be really over the top. I figure it's about the only place they have that calls back to natural instincts, so it would likely be a rather grand structure.

I think, for the most part, I can let the shadow spill over and work around the issues:
1) Very large buildings are also likely to be big enough to obscure their own shadow.
2) Any building that doesn't obscure it's own shadow (but tall enough to cast into a neighboring tile) is also likely narrow enough that the shadow falls into unoccupied areas of neighboring tiles.
3) Any other building not fitting into #1 or #2 can probably be adjusted to keep the shadow within the game tile (as has mostly been the case thus far).



Secondarily (if that's a real word), I am starting to get on board with increased color vibrance. I've intentionally kept many of the colors somewhat dark due to the atmosphere of the game (end of human civilization and all) and have stuck with the pallet that was worked out some months ago. Just like above, I do have some concerns. The tiles are so tight and everything packed in, I also want to avoid a situation where a large colony just starts to look like a lot of noise. Where there's so many buildings and they're all so loud/colorful that it's just a big canvas of abstract art. I'm not saying you did that with the park, but I'm mostly looking at the medical center (it's quite bright). I do like the feel of the park a bit more. It's lit up but not spectacularly bright. To me it makes it feel bigger.

Anyway, that's a lot of rambling. I'm not sure if it made any sense or went anywhere, but I guess I can say that I've been thinking about these things too.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: chris2222 on September 30, 2018, 11:26:44 AM
I like the park with a bit more blue in it.  I see you're going with the green x as opposed to a blue H?  I know it's a matter of preference but I prefer a blue H, I was also thinking the H was a bit small - perhaps it could be made a bit larger, that is the top portion of the building have a larger dome to hold the larger H.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 30, 2018, 02:49:20 PM
Ah, yeah...This is one of the things I was afraid of. The foreground terrain occludes the building shadow. I think the only way to overcome this is for me to shrink the building to pull the shadow inside the tile.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: chris2222 on September 30, 2018, 03:19:39 PM
The larger building would look better even if the shadow doesn't work well, but make it pop with the brighter blues. 
side question - Do you model these structures at higher resolution and then downscale them?  edit*** ok saw the graphics update which answers my question - sorry for a question with an obvious answer.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: Hooman on September 30, 2018, 04:40:21 PM
Very interesting tidbit about the shape of the hospital. I wouldn't have guessed that.

Agreed about nursery variation "C" looking best, though it's so close and hard to tell.

I like the brighter blues and greens for the park.

As for shadows, I wonder if people would even noticed if you just omitted a shadow for that structure. In particular, both the park and agridome are made of glass. Maybe they shouldn't cast shadows, or at least not strong ones.

I also wanted to point out it's an underground structure. This raises questions about the shadows, and where they come from. Mind you, looking cool, and giving it some feel of depth is probably more important than a good explanation.

The tile clipping can be partially addressed by drawing the base layer entirely first, and then drawing units on top later. Though that doesn't deal with shadows falling on adjacent structures and falling flat.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 30, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
Okay, more adjustments to the park. Version A is the most recent. VerB is with some basic color adjustments. VerC is with color adjustments and shrunk to pull the shadow off the tile to the bottom left. And VerD is the same as VerC but with an enlarged water area inside.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 30, 2018, 06:26:10 PM
And here's a comparison of the nursery with the same shadow fixes and color shift as the park.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: Hooman on September 30, 2018, 06:41:50 PM
I like the color adjustments in B. Once it's shrunk down, the colors look a bit faded.

I'd say the structure still looks fine at the smaller size.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on September 30, 2018, 06:56:02 PM
I'm thinking the color fade of the shrunk one is due to the pond disappearing. The building is the same height, but I made it narrower which caused the catwalk to be in the way. I can adjust that so the pond is more visible.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on September 30, 2018, 10:46:49 PM
Still prefer the larger park. I did notice that the shadows may not have enough transparency. In the following show I reduces the shadow transparency by 50% -- the clipping is less noticeable while still getting the desired 'this is on the ground' effect. Compare to the unmodified shadow of the Nursery structure to the right of it:

(https://snag.gy/nL1RpH.jpg)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on October 01, 2018, 12:12:10 AM
With the recent change I made fixing another issue, I can do that pretty easily with the shadows now.

And yeah, I like the bigger one too. :)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: Hooman on October 01, 2018, 08:48:21 AM
That's a pretty good effect, adjusting the shadow transparency. The clipping is much less obvious.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on October 14, 2018, 06:11:13 PM
I based the recreation center off of one of the early drafts for the medical center.

This also ended up with three fairly different overall feels, depending on where I place the upper deck pieces. I thought these were all fairly interesting, and I'm not sure which I like best. I was aiming for the "A" version, but "B" is feels more like the original. "C" is a descent middle ground, though I wasn't necessarily aiming for a compromise.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on October 14, 2018, 07:15:23 PM
Preferring the `C` version.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on October 14, 2018, 07:18:37 PM
Yeah. I kind of like the B version because it's different. But when considered on it's own, I think the C version looks better.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: JetMech1999 on October 14, 2018, 07:21:52 PM
Given the options shown,  I'd have to agree that "C" is the best one.  "A" looks like it has a Nazi Iron Cross on top of it.  "B" definitely looks a lot like the original.  I keep having in my mind that they all need to look wildly different from the originals, but that isn't really true.  Similar is good if what you're starting with is a good design in the first place.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on October 14, 2018, 07:27:48 PM
I suppose that's true. I was more thinking fire department when I saw the symbol, but fair enough about avoiding the perception of hidden nazi symbols.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on October 14, 2018, 08:09:29 PM
I'm also seeing the fire horns versus a nazi cross...  :o
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: Hooman on October 15, 2018, 06:09:17 AM
All so good, it's hard to choose. I kind of liked A the best, ... but maybe that's saying something about me, and being a stickler for rules.  :-\  Ehh, I'm going to go have a shower.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 17, 2019, 01:00:14 AM
I don't know that this is really "health and welfare" but I suppose it's loosely related. Here's the first draft of a Red Light district. I think I prefer "D" because it looks quite a bit different from the other building styles. Something about it really stands out.

Open to feedback! :)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: lordpalandus on February 17, 2019, 03:53:03 AM
Wheres the flashing lights, the loud noises, and the xenomorphs. Oh no, wait, that is a different strip club.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 17, 2019, 06:49:55 PM
Flashing lights will likely come with the animated version. :)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on February 17, 2019, 11:29:42 PM
Digging revision D as well. Though I wonder -- the rings around the lower doorways (seam between tube and structure) -- try that in purple?
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 18, 2019, 10:04:09 AM
I pumped up the strength on the purple just a bit and put some in the little domes on the sides.

And a second one with extra lighting.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on February 18, 2019, 01:43:23 PM
Very nice, turned out better than I'd hoped for. :D

EDIT:

In-game:

(https://i.ibb.co/XVW80JZ/image.png)

Feels like something is missing to make it really kinda stand out... could just be that it's missing animation (e.g., flashing lights and the sort) so I won't worry too much about it. I see no point in making it so in your face as to stand apart from everything else.

Nice work!
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 18, 2019, 08:24:48 PM
It looks good, but I might agree a little about it standing out.

I think it DOES stand out, but the red also might be a little misleading given that most power generation is red. It looks unique, but maybe not enough.

How's this? I swapped out one of the red lights. Slightly jarring and maybe it'll motivate the player to fix whatever the issue is that caused the RLD to spawn (assuming you're using a similar mechanic).
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: Hooman on February 19, 2019, 02:31:50 AM
Quote
I don't know that this is really "health and welfare" but I suppose it's loosely related. Here's the first draft of a Red Light district.
I won't argue about the classification, but lol.

Is the animated version going to have people dancing on display in those glass bubbles? ;)
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: lordpalandus on February 19, 2019, 03:44:49 AM
Wouldn't the Red Light District be the antithesis to Health and Welfare:

-> High risk of any number of diseases.
-> High chance of greatly regretting ever visiting the place and slipping into depression.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 19, 2019, 08:11:11 AM
Yes, "loosely related" as in "it affects health and welfare."

Those glass domes are wholesome places to relax.  :-[
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on February 19, 2019, 05:45:05 PM
Yeesh, that's just garish, though perhaps might be exactly what's needed. Let's see how this versions stands up in-game...

(https://i.ibb.co/CWThMTm/image.png)

You know what... that works well me thinks. Very much stands out as an anomaly that needs to be addressed. Unless, of course, it was built intentionally.

... and maybe it'll motivate the player to fix whatever the issue is that caused the RLD to spawn (assuming you're using a similar mechanic).

I've thought about it and I'm definitely leaning toward that being one of the aspects of the gameplay (crime). Not exactly sure how to make it happen as I haven't really thought about the crime model and how it will affect everything else in the game. Something to be addressed for a later version for sure. :D
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 20, 2019, 10:33:27 PM
Good to hear. If you're happy with the options available, I'll move on to the residence. I believe in the current download, that's the last building that needs replacement.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on February 21, 2019, 06:03:57 PM
I believe you're right. There's the other structures that just need to be updated with their shadows but otherwise the Residence is the last of the visuals that haven't already been replaced.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 21, 2019, 06:43:58 PM
As for the shadows...looking at some of your pictures above, I think the subdued shadows are too subdued. They don't seem to provide visual cues I intended. The darker shadows look better, aside from the clipping issue. I am once again thinking as long as they overlap to the top left (and not bottom left), then they might look just fine if they're a bit darker.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on February 28, 2019, 05:52:30 PM
From the residential thread, this post had me thinking"

I think you're right. I was thinking about space and noise when I was looking at the first set. The later set is more like what you'd find with high rise buildings, where ground floor level only really contains shops, with all the housing on higher levels.

For the medical structure, maybe we should modify it a bit to do the same thing so that the north/south and east/west wings don't have tubes protruding from them?
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 28, 2019, 07:56:51 PM
Yeah, that's easily doable. Although it'll lose the EMS symbol look. I'm trying to remember if I built one like that previously for my own purposes, but I can modify one and post it.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: JetMech1999 on February 28, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
What if you kept the same rotation but elevated the medical structure like the residential?  Would that look ok or goofy?
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: leeor_net on February 28, 2019, 08:55:54 PM
I thought that's what I suggested? Just moving the structure up as-is but so that the tubes aren't protruding through the building.
Title: Re: Health & Welfare
Post by: White Claw on February 28, 2019, 09:37:15 PM
Ah, my mistake. I didn't think of elevating the building in the same way, since it's rather different in construction (much more flat and spread out). I'll see if I can come up with something and post the results.