Outpost Universe Forums

Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Divided Destiny => Topic started by: Zhall on September 29, 2017, 11:42:55 PM

Title: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on September 29, 2017, 11:42:55 PM
It's been 2 weeks of development, and I've put in 40+ hours (my wrists hurt lol)

Let's get some testing going.

Also,
I won't be doing any updates until a solid month goes by and we see if Blizzard flags the mod for copyright infringement or not.



*from the video description

Download StarCraft 2: http://us.battle.net/arcade/en/
Our Discord: https://discord.gg/9sxbvEs
Link to map: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/291798
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on October 01, 2017, 12:52:07 AM
Nicely done

I noticed the video had mention of where to download and try this out. Might I suggest adding links below the video?
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Vagabond on October 01, 2017, 01:09:41 AM
Zhall,

Looks like you have made a lot of progress.

Does this require purchasing StarCraft 3 to play?

-Brett
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 01, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
The links were in the description of the video, but I added them to the post.

StarCraft 2 for arcade purposes is free.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: fistoz on October 04, 2017, 10:54:17 AM
Hey, seems interesting :)
Is it available on SC2 or not yet ? Didn't find it in Arcade.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 04, 2017, 11:34:41 AM
Hey, seems interesting :)
Is it available on SC2 or not yet ? Didn't find it in Arcade.

It should be here battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/291798

Outpost 3 - OPU

I checked if it's public and it is.. Let me know if you still cant find it
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: fistoz on October 04, 2017, 11:40:14 AM
battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/291798
Hmm, how am I supposed to.. use that 'link(?)'

oh.. maybe it isn't available in Europe realm ?
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 04, 2017, 02:25:06 PM
I just realized i only published it to the Americas,  ill publish it to all of them later.

Hop on discord and we'll get a game going.

Edit: The map has been published to Americas, Europe, and Southeast Asia
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on October 04, 2017, 11:15:43 PM
Hmm, curious, any reason why they segregate the regions?

I noticed the SC2 installer is available for Windows and Mac. I tried installing the Windows version on Linux using Wine, but the installer threw an error and quit.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: lordpalandus on October 05, 2017, 12:03:53 AM
Blizzard has different server hubs in those regions; for all their games, character accounts and forums. Diablo 3 for example, if you create a character on an EU account, it can only play on EU servers with its EU characters.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: fistoz on October 05, 2017, 10:21:02 AM
Yeah BliČ separates his game servers in regions.
Couldn't find the map on EU, but tried it on 'murica :)

As posted as game review IG :
Quote from: fistoz
Still alpha, not much to say ofc, but at least there's already one thing every Outpost 2 players dreamed about : vehicles fluidity and efficiency on movement !
So many years of improvements from OP2 to SC2 ^^

Few things I could mention even though it's only starting :
- cargo trucks are stopping their mine-smelter route when path is a bit block (ex. if your vehicle factory create some in the path, or if you hold position on it)
- laser lynx a bit OP atm. Shooting everything from afar while moving xD
- not sure if they aim correctly at manual target, seems like they prefer tubes or near vehicles first
- a separation between fighting and utility vehicles could be useful later on (F2 army selection, hehe)
- AI not working yet (well.. have fun to make it adapt to the new gameplay somehow :p)

Promising/interesting :D

Didn't test it in multiplayer yet. Just tested 5-10min vs an (afk ^^) AI

If you want to try things, I'm kinda connected 24/7 so feel free to ask ;) (I'm in France though, may not always be ready at your hours, but try anyway)
My Bnet tag : fistoz #2528
e/ Seems like Bnet app uses separated friend lists as well :/ Oh well, I'll keep an eye on it anyway !
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 05, 2017, 02:17:58 PM
I'll hit you up on American and Europe battlenets.

lasers are op, and they use a hacky work around in order to operate.

Cargo trucks cannot even be selected once they are on route, giving any commands at so will remove them from the route.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 07, 2017, 12:41:43 AM
Fistoz and I had a match.



We found some issues, and ill be working on them eventually.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: fistoz on October 07, 2017, 01:20:24 AM
Oh, forgot it was recorded, should've crushed you >D

Btw fog of war will be better I think ^^ IDK how it was in OP2 multi, but here and with such quick lynx units, you can erase enemy and chase extra bases real fast.

A pleasure to play with all the sounds, quotes and musics and textures of OP2 too ^^
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 07, 2017, 09:19:56 AM
Op2 multiplayer always has the entire map revealed.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: lordpalandus on October 07, 2017, 10:22:37 AM
There was never any "shroud" in Outpost 2, but there was essentially "fog of war" caused by the day/night cycle. By ordering the vehicles to turn their lights off, you could sneak an army into the enemy's base. However, that is likely a complex beast to get in and should be only bothered with late-project development. Probably.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: fistoz on October 07, 2017, 12:40:24 PM
Yeah, that was mostly to point out how fast you can rush the enemy but better start with the basics ^^

Few things I noticed today :
- you've fixed the duplicate structure kit exploit, right ? hehe
- If the Structure factory is full and you build a 7th kit, you get a "Kit storage full" message but aren't refunded in metal.
- To be more precise about cargo trucks beeing stopped, they seem not to be affected and continue their route unless they're still on your control while loading/unloading
- Buildings don't need a connection to the CC to keep working, only to get built. For exemple a smelter far of the based linked by long tubes, if one gets destroyed, it still provides metal.
- Same goes with Energy from CCs/Tokamaks, like usual supply in SC2. Once you get many units and get depots destroyed, your units don't disappear ofc. Yet there's not harm as in OP2 yet ^^
- Would be usefull to be able to cancel a construction (like if you missclick and place it one tile too much on one side ^^)
- Autodestruct, because a red button with "do not press" is all we need !
- A way to destruct a structure kit, eventually.
- You can hear OP2 sounds (like cargo unloading on smelters, or laser lynx shooting) from everywhere on the map. Not sure about enemies sounds or only personnal though, if so, a 3v3 must be noisy.
- Are you supposed to destroy every units, including vehicles ? Dunno about OP2 as once you lost most of your buildings it's an auto loss ^^ But that means you can build a huge army at the cost of the base and still win afterward.

- About laser Lynx, here's how it seems to work : when you select the target, it tries to reach it in melee, stopping periodically to execute automatic order of shooting enemy units near. Primary targets are always vehicles, then the closer building, thus if you're on melee with your building target but stepping on tube, it'll take down the tube
first.
Also when ordering to fire at allied target, after it's first hit, it stops following the order.
Ofc course not a priority but it should have a closer range (which goes with it's actual melee movement), or I don't wanna imagine how far the rail gun will snipe xD


Don't feel too overwhelmed though, I'm putting things I find out but some may not be important for now.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 08, 2017, 11:26:19 PM
ya.. like i said the laser is a hackyb work around that screws up the combat interaction, ill have to find a better way.

i noticed the sounds playing across the map, that should  be an easy fix.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 18, 2017, 04:18:40 PM
The copyright police seem to be at bay.

So I released a minor patch that fixes the structure factory duplication and tubes spawning for the wrong player.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on October 19, 2017, 08:29:34 AM
Hey, did you get anymore games going to test this? Sounds like not many people tried, though the game you posted looked kind of exciting, and fun for the person who did try.


I'm curious, do other people find using the SC2 engine a bit of a stumbling block? I found myself wanting to try this out, yet still hesitant to download and install the SC2 engine. When I did finally try downloading it, there was no installer for Linux, and the Windows one didn't work under Wine. Still though, even before I knew about that problem, there was still a part of me groaning about the two separate download/install steps. I doubt I'm the only one that feels that way. Anyone else care to fess up about similar seemingly trivial to overcome mental blocks? Or other similar mental blocks?
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: lordpalandus on October 19, 2017, 12:44:40 PM
Well I have mental blocks concerning testing, but they are of different kinds.

Mine are the fact that I don't like testing multiplayer demos, as I rarely play the multiplayer for a game, and thus the gameplay won't be representative of the mode I intend to play; ie when COD's World War II beta came out, it was multiplayer only; but as I don't play COD multiplayer, I didn't bother playing it, even if I do intend to grab the game sometime after it comes out.

Secondly I don't like downloading services, like Discord, that I probably will never use... and it sounds like you need it to get the game demo.

Thirdly I'm busy enough as is, developing my own game and testing it, to test someone else's game... as fun as it looks ...
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Vagabond on October 19, 2017, 02:42:50 PM
Quote
Thirdly I'm busy enough as is, developing my own game and testing it, to test someone else's game... as fun as it looks ...

It is hard to ask others to test your work if you don't take the time to help others' test their work.

Quote
I'm curious, do other people find using the SC2 engine a bit of a stumbling block?

I'm not keen on hearing a port of Outpost 2 to the Star Craft engine being called Outpost 3. Especially if it depends on the goodwill of Blizzard not taking it down off their servers.

Being more of a clone of the game on Starcraft than a continuation of the series, it is an awkward title to call it Outpost 3.

Nevertheless it is nice to see cloning the game on the StarCraft engine is possible and that it is moving along.

-Brett
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: lordpalandus on October 19, 2017, 11:38:16 PM
Well, part of the issue is that almost nobody is playtesting it (for V6, only two people have given me any feedback; Hooman, and Zenaire [someone on the quest site]) and thus I have to do the majority of the playtesting myself and guess what players are experiencing and guess on the challenge level. Its very tough and very time consuming... to the point that some days I consider abandoning the project altogether and just work on learning UE4 again. Its very difficult to sustain self-encouragement and self-empowerment for a game that appears that almost no one is currently interested in. To be fair, its not complete and if it was it probably would garner more attention, but as it is, its often very hard to keep one's self motivated.

---

I concur on the not liking it called Outpost 3, when it isn't a remake or a redesign of the Outpost 2 formula. As you are trying to recreate Outpost 2, but with 3D models, its more of a remaster of Outpost 2 than anything. Also Blizzard is a big company, so projects like this will likely evade their attention... until its about 80-90% complete and then swoop in. Like what happened with that KOTOR 1 remake in UE4, once it was nearly complete, LucasArts swooped in and killed the project.

It is indeed though nice to see that cloning/recreating it in StarCraft 2 engine is indeed possible and looks pretty decent for an Alpha project (as compared to most that use placeholder objects and sounds).
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on October 20, 2017, 08:56:48 AM
Mine are the fact that I don't like testing multiplayer demos, as I rarely play the multiplayer for a game

Ahh, interesting. I get that too actually. That's for pointing that out.

And I don't think you need Discord to play.

Quote
I'm busy enough as is, developing my own game and testing it, to test someone else's game... as fun as it looks ...
This one strikes me as a surface level reason. I would bet if you really focused on that answer, and really dug into the why, you would find deeper more meaningful reasons.

Though one of those could simply be priorities. Your own game might be your priority, and not testing other people's games. I kind of get that. But still, I suspect if you really thought about it, there's probably more to it than that.

Quote
It is hard to ask others to test your work if you don't take the time to help others' test their work.
Indeed. There is truth in that. It's hard to ask for something when you find yourself hesitant to do the same for others.

Though I suspect this comment won't feel very convincing, and I suspect it won't feel very convincing because there are other reasons hidden beneath. If those deeper reasons are not addressed, it won't change how someone feels about something.

Quote
I'm not keen on hearing a port of Outpost 2 to the Star Craft engine being called Outpost 3

That is a very keen observation. Now that I think about it, the name kind of bothers me too. It doesn't really feel like an "Outpost 3". It's more like an OP2: SC2 project. A rough clone of the original in a new game engine.

It's a pretty awesome clone so far. I'm impressed by how much went into it. But yeah, it doesn't quite feel like it should have the title "Outpost 3".

I'm curious, how would other people describe this game? I'm not very creative, so I'd just go with "Outpost 2: Starcraft 2", or describe it as a remake of Outpost 2 in the Starcraft 2 engine.


As for playtesting, it does get progressively tedious as you iterate to a final version, as the changes tend to get smaller and smaller. Once you've played it once, you already know it. The novelness wears off. Though in terms of changes, hopefully the need for feedback should also decrease. In terms of motivation, well..., that's the hard part.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: lordpalandus on October 20, 2017, 11:59:06 AM
Well according to the video Zhall posted, it appears that you can only get the download link for the game demo by having it sent to you via Discord. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Zhall set the link to private-invite only and to get that invite you need Discord.

Yes, it is a surface level reason. A diplomatic or polite one.

Well, there are three parts to it:
1) I want to complete it as quickly as possible, without burning myself out, so that my time is free around December to focus on other things, like family and friends.
2) There is a gal I met back in August/September that was very busy in August/September, but is likely to be much freer with her time around December, and would like to see if she'd be up to dating then; can't very well do that if I'm swamped in game making.
3) I believe I know what I did wrong with UE4 and with my newfound knowledge of mechanical system design, programming knowledge, and troubleshooting skills, I am very interested in going back to UE4 and trying to build a video game in it. However, knowing my creative energy limits, I know that trying to do two major projects at the same time won't work. I also know that I'll have to spend a lot of time learning and doing tutorials, which is somewhat less demanding on creative energy. Thus, I want to complete CoC and be free in December to start working on learning UE4.

I don't find playtesting tedious, when it comes to my own project. I actually kind of enjoy it. I also have been implementing some rather huge systems lately, so the changes aren't all that small yet. I'm sure once everything is in, and I'm on the hunt for grammatical errors, typos, linebreaks, and minor logic error it might get tedious, but I'm not at that point yet. The only playtesting that I find tedious is when I identify a problem, the developer acknowledges it but doesn't do anything about it, and I run into the problem over and over again as I play, and that makes the playtesting tedious.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 20, 2017, 09:34:34 PM
The link should take you directly to the map in battle.net.

I don't think they can be formatted correctly on this site, so try these
http://kippurcatarts.com/outpost-3/

Outpost 3 is for lack of a better name.

StarCraft 1 got a "remaster" and so is age of empires 1. Perhaps Outpost 2 "remastered" would be better.

I don't really care, Outpost 2 Remastered seems good to me.

No one has played it since I played with fistoz, which has led me to back burner this project behind a ton of other ones.

As far as I'm concerned I completed the 1 month push because I got it to a playable alpha version.

It's important to remember that assets made for Starcraft 2 can be reused in UE4 or Unity. Not that I WILL be doing that anytime soon, but perhaps someone down the line will want to do that.

Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on October 21, 2017, 04:08:06 AM
Quote
It's important to remember that assets made for Starcraft 2 can be reused in UE4 or Unity. Not that I WILL be doing that anytime soon, but perhaps someone down the line will want to do that.

That's good to know. People keep mentioning those two engines.

I'm kind of curious about the assets. Did you need some kind of conversion step? If so, how involved was it?

Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 22, 2017, 12:36:34 PM
For sc2 i needed to run them through 3ds max 2011 inside of a windows xp virtual machine. This is intensive but the only way i found to work, and the export handle is really nice for sc2 so its worth it.

For unity its as simple as exporting as fbx.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: leeor_net on October 22, 2017, 03:25:45 PM
Wanted to congratulate you on completing what you set out to accomplish. Well done!

Would love to see this more polished/completed/etc. Maybe one day when I have less on my plate (e.g., I get OPHD mostly or entirely finished) I can pick it up with a stand alone engine like Unity/UE4. :D
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 22, 2017, 08:41:44 PM
When you're ready to rock ill be ready.  Ive got the same plate issue :D
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on October 23, 2017, 01:01:24 PM
Quote
For sc2 i needed to run them through 3ds max 2011 inside of a windows xp virtual machine.

How come you needed to use a Windows XP virtual machine? Does the software you used only work on older versions of Windows? Can more up to date software do it? I assume there are upgrade costs with 3ds max.


I agree with leeor_net, it's quite impressive how you laid out that plan and then nailed it.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: lordpalandus on October 23, 2017, 01:25:52 PM
Well 3ds max 2011 requires either XP, Vista or Windows 7 (source = https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/System-requirements-for-Autodesk-3ds-Max-and-Autodesk-3ds-Max-Design-2011.html)

Its probable that he only has an XP virtual machine and thus why he used it. I believe he mentioned somewhere that he has a Windows 10 machine, and thus he'd need a different OS to use 2011 3ds max.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on October 24, 2017, 02:50:29 PM
2011 won't run on windows 10, i tried believe me.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on November 30, 2017, 10:07:11 AM
It's been well over a month and it hasn't been kicked from the arcade.

I'm off to other money grubbing projects, but if anyone wants to grab a game or two let me know.
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on December 04, 2017, 09:47:14 AM
What else are you working on?
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on December 05, 2017, 12:39:32 PM
A kickstarter for a trump board game
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Hooman on December 05, 2017, 09:59:20 PM
Cards Against Humanity? ;)

Win Bigly?
Title: Re: Outpost 3 Alpha Testing Commencing
Post by: Zhall on December 06, 2017, 07:51:15 PM
hehe somewhere along those lines