Outpost Universe Forums
Outpost Series Games => Outpost 2 Divided Destiny => Topic started by: Zhall on August 12, 2017, 12:43:45 AM
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My current project is coming to a close and I am looking for another one month push which is my favorite development style.
I have made some progress in the past on a starcraft 2 mod, figuring out how to import custom models and get certain features such as mining to work almost identical to the original.
Starcraft 2 arcade is free,so there's no real downside to using that engine. Of course its $20 to use the editor or as low as $7 on eBay. Building a custom engine is a hellacious waste of time, and the spring engine pisses me off too much.
Of course there's copyright bullshit, but please look past that as if the project gets pulled from battlenet the content produced can be reused on a different engine.
We can use all free software to make models and textures.
Who's in? Ill dedicate a whole month to it if a few other people are willing to push aswell.
We won't finish, but a first playable version will result.
Thoughts?
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This is the fourth time you've announced a project presenting an ambitious idea with unrealistic time frames. It's not going to garner you much response. To give you a bit of context:
Projects with little to nothing to show for themselves
Outpost 2 On Iphone (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,4822.0.html)
New Outpost Project (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5098.0.html)
Remaking Outpost 2 Muliplayer With Galaxy Editor (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5073.0.html)
Outpost Sequel/rpg Story (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,2909.0.html)
Outpost 2 Remastered (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5747.0.html)
Outpost Remake Thoughts (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5202.0.html)
Outpost Open-core (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,4229.0.html)
Modding Continuum (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,3136.0.html)
Outpost 3: The Final Chapter (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,18.0.html)
Outpost 3: Genesis (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,53.0.html) ← Calling myself out
Outpost 3: Alien Worlds (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,2.0.html)
Outpost 3: A New Power (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,32.0.html)
Outpost 3D (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,102.0.html)
Outpost: A New Beginning (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,25.0.html)
Outpost: Tactical Frontier (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,72.0.html)
Outpost 3: Reboot (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,1180.0.html)
Outpost Undivided (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,1198.0.html)
Outpost World (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,1222.0.html)
Outpost For Spring (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5476.0.html)
OP1 Remake? (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,3792.0.html)
Outpost: Missing in Action (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/board,24.0.html) ← Calling myself out again
Epsilon Eridani (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5496.0.html)
Your own announcements and projects
Teaser (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5930.0.html)
Haven (not posted about much on OPU and NTCS's forums are down so I can't link to it).
Haven relaunch? (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5870.0.html)
Outpost 3 Starcraft 2 (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5075.0.html)
Industrial Giant (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5218.0.html)
With all of this stated, I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye before and the last time we talked you stormed out of the IRC channel and claimed that within a month you'd have a new prototype. I chalked it up to a heated quip but I low-key wanted you to prove me wrong. That was two years ago.
If you can make it happen, awesome! Hell I'd be excited to help out. But... you have a proven history of not following through, coming up with prototypes that haven't gone anywhere, dismissing advice that experienced people offer you and stopped working on a project because you didn't understand the technology (Haven, in this case. I've looked at the source code for Spring and it's a solid base to build a new game off of).
If you want to get a few developers together to do something awesome, you need to have more than an idea. You need to have laid down some ground work. If you've developed code, put it up in a public repository like GitHub, GitLab or SourceForge. Specify what you need help with, what the goals are and so on.
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First off id like to say i regret my unprofessionalism and hope to move past it.
Id like to restate that this would not result in a finished product but would focus on getting some components done and perhaps a barely playable proof of concept.
Industrial giant has since been merged into a different project and Haven was paused due to not having enough people involved,which ultimately will be the fate of this project.
Regardless of how many failures there has been I don't see the harm in trying again even if we are certain that it will fail again. As long as the progress is saved add open sourced at the end it will not be hot nothing!
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Fair enough.
A suggestion -- I've looked over the Spring code in more detail (the actual base C++ code). It's not bad and it's very usable. As I recall your previous effort with Haven involved using a pre-built engine and Lua scripting. That could work but from what I saw I seriously doubt you'd be able to get the Outpost 2 behavior out of units via lua scripts. Very likely the behavior would have to be built into the engine itself.
Structure placement would also have to be modified with an included 'connectedness' algorithm. This can be done relatively efficiently with a depth-first search -- it's the same technique I used in OutpostHD. I would only run such a search in an RTS maybe once per tick (maybe every 2000 - 3500 milliseconds? that would have to be tested) and if possible in a separate logic thread separate from the rendering thread.
Lastly, you're right about failure rate. Sometimes it's not about being ablet to succeed, sometimes it's just about learning. If that's the case, I'd suggest instead of a full-on project just coming up with some sort of prototype that demonstrates the basic mechanics. I made the same suggestion to LordPalandus in his thread (http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,5713.0.html). Still haven't seen much out of it but it seems like he's made some good progress understanding his own limitations and the scope of what he wants to do so basically a lot of positives. ;D
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I'll put together a trello board and make the expectations for the push realistic.
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A trello board has been started here.
Trello board Outpost 3 - https://trello.com/b/5J1sXcJt/outpost-3.
Ill be adding things as i get closer to the push time.
Some things that will probably be the focus are...
- Finishing the leftover to-do list from earlier development
- Implementing a custom UI similar yo the original
- Reimagining kits and their handling
- Creating previs assets of pretty much everything in the game,ultra low quality place holders if you will
ill start with that and see what else can be done near the end of that month.
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Your board seems to be private.
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Zhall,
I'm a pretty big fan on using Trello for basic project goals and task management. It has enough features without being too much for a small team to use. As Hooman pointed out, I also cannot seem to access the board.
Best of luck with the project. I'll look forward to seeing your results. Maybe you can plan on posting screen shots or a short video of your end result after a month of work?
-Brett
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Sorry about that, it's public now.
Let me know if you want to be added to it, it's a group project after all
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I compiled a video of the current state of the project.
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Interesting. This was more than I expected to see.
There seems to be a bit of a mix of art style. Is the other style native to Starcraft II?
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The texture-less models are from back in 2010 when the project started and there was no easy way to import models with textures.
The common ore smelter was created earlier this year and is in a state I like to call "Pre-vis" which is simply a basic texture.
The other models are stock from Sc2 itself.
I plan on utilizing any models that already exist and creating really fast simple versions "Pre-vis" of any model that doesn't exist.
This will give us the basis for all of the content in the game and allow for it to be slowly replaced with better content.
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Cool. Do you have any source to show for the project?
Did you use any of the pre-existing models from other people? I couldn't really tell, but the tokamak and cargo trucks reminded me of the models Fenrisul posted years ago. What about the models White Claw has produced recently?
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Yes they are the models Fenrisul created.
I don't have the ones that White Claw made.
Here is the current Sc2 Map.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6i8oCa06m0HZU85dVN0ZGJkSTQ
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I plan on making weekly videos, 4 in total to document the progress during the month push which I hope to start soon.
I am wrapping up my current project in order to prepare for this.
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If anyone wants to go round those up for me that would be greatly appreciated.
Any help towards the end goal helps. This has already been a 7 year project, abandoned multiple times, but I always made sure to save what I had so I could come back.
My skills using the StarCraft 2 engine have greatly improved since it's advent and I think it's a great engine with a lot of potential.
While the spring engine could be used there's too much missing and it's a language I don't know
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Zhall,
Looks like some great progress. I like how you even have the trucks disappearing when delivering ore to the smelter. It feels really weird seeing the 2 games merged in the engine like that. I guess as you get more content to skin over, it won't appear as StarCraft like. I've only played the first StarCraft, although the second does look similar in interface design.
What is the little symbol that floats between the two planets in the beginning of the video about?
I'm also curious, what sort of licensing is on the StarCraft 2 game engine?
Looking forward to seeing your weekly updates. Glanced through the Trello board and saw you are using it pretty heavily.
-Brett
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That logo is my YouTube channel logo and company logo [don't go to my site right now its down lol]
I think there's a clause that they own everything you make on their engine, but it's mostly just you can't monetize your shit.
ill be damned if they think they own my stuff though, maybe the code but not any of the custom assets.
I'm really pushing to start on sept 15, trying to finish up small things that are holding me up from starting.
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I've done a heavy amount of restructuring to the Trello board.
https://trello.com/b/5J1sXcJt/outpost-3-september-october-push
I've tried to be conservative in what will be done, aka no Plymouth at all.
Anything that doesn't get done in the week before will be pushed to the week after, ultimately the final week, week 4, will be the week that will catch everything up if I start to fall behind.
I am trying to identify the amount of snafu's I will encounter along the way and are doing the necessary research required to iron out those problems before the 1 month push starts.
I hope to have a playable version on battle.net by the end of the push.
This may put my account in jeopardy, but it's worth it.
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Been listening to this in preparation for the push.
EDIT (leeor_net): fixing bb tags
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It's the 15th and development has started.
First up: Robosurveyors and Robominers and the unknown deposit
-Earthworkers
You can track progress here
https://trello.com/b/5J1sXcJt/outpost-3.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314257992650457088/358463167245975553/Miners.PNG)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314257992650457088/358472051490816000/Earthworkers.PNG)
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Looks like a good start.
-Brett
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Day 2:
Fixed selection issues with convec and cargo truck
Cleaned up the import folder, was a complete mess and now its beautiful.
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Heh, good to see :)
The models look a bit blocky, but they're very recognizable.
Player coloring seems to work.
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Day 3:
Went to fix my extra "ram" (not even installed derp) and remembered I gave it to someone else because it "wasn't working"... O well, I'll make due with what I have.
Backed up the project incase things go all Hellen Keller.
Imported 3 music tracks that I optimized from 19.8MB to 2.5MB and they sound basically the same
Mining now adds metal
Groups of trucks can be routed at the same time
All Trucks are initialized at map start
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Day 4:
Fixed an issue with remote mining
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/314257992650457088/359417661676978177/Commonbars.PNG)
1,2, and 3 bar common beacons and metal icons that replace minerals and vespane.
Mining beacons can now be surveyed and are given a Yield(1,2,3) and Variant(1,2,3) value
Mines with bars
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/314257992650457088/359457020677455872/MineswithBars.PNG?width=770&height=307)
Mining is finalized for now, it will need perfection in the future, but most likely will wait until better assets are available, the Previs assets aren't worth finessing
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/314257992650457088/359571218505924608/Tubes.PNG)
Tubes | _ and + are in, the logic behind making them attach isn't perfect, again this would be redone with better assets and with a set of tubes that include corners and T's
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Day 5:
The first week is almost over and I'm pretty much on schedule
Today was slow because of some snafu's but the end of the day went well
I got the common ore smelter remade, made the command center from scratch and textured the tokamak, agridome, structure factory, and vehicle factory.
Also got the status indicators to appear, although they have no impact on the function of the buildings yet.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314257992650457088/359941545593667584/Progress.png)
Oh and lucky me, I have a 1 bar in my base!
Although the common ore smelter is "idle" it still works.
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Visually looks impressive.
Are all these your models? Because if so, that's a lot of visual detail to pack into a model in a days work!
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Most of them are Fenrisul's model from 2006.
I just happened to have them laying around still.
They are really helping speed things along.
Day 6:
Had some time this morning so I put a nursery together
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314257992650457088/360132402414354433/Nursery.PNG)
University, with the U of E emblem
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314257992650457088/360199524410589185/University.PNG)
Lasers everywhere!
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314257992650457088/360232656723771392/Lasers.PNG)
Got a rivalry going on!
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314257992650457088/360259364067606531/Rivalry.png)
And that concludes week 1!
I'll be taking a break tomorrow to work on something else, then it's back at it on Friday.
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Day 11:
Imported 3 custom tile textures
Made a crude pie chart map
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/361901085683744770/Piechart.png)
The project has been restructured to allow for testing at the end of this week.
Redid Kit handling, still not complete.
Added the new units to be able to be built.
Created a building ID system to track status, kits, etc.
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Day 12:
Mining finally decided to work 99% of the time, so I went ahead and tried out building bases, as we all know that Dynamix one they give you is trash.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/362290722843525121/Screenshot2017-09-26_10_27_23.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/362290783736430603/Screenshot2017-09-26_10_27_26.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/362290790250184704/Screenshot2017-09-26_10_27_46.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/362290937931628545/Screenshot2017-09-26_10_28_51.jpg)
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Have to say it, I'm finding this impressive. Keep up the good work!
I do have to ask though -- it seems like you have shaders completely turned off -- is this the case? Looks kinda bland without them... though I suppose gameplay is more important than shiny visuals. :)
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Its also possible that the models lack shadow maps; without shadow maps, shadows cannot be cast.
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... That's not how that works. Quake 2 models and map geometry don't have 'shadow maps' and yet I have them casting shadows just fine: https://snag.gy/92d4J7.jpg (note edges of doorway and lamp)
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The models only have a diffuse map applied, and im probably missing something when it comes to casting shadows.
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It depends entirely on the game actually leeor, and the rendering system used. In Skyrim, if you delete the shadow maps, you no longer can cast shadows. Quake 2 uses OpenGL, so it likely has a different system setup to control that. Some game engines, like UE4 for example, needs shadow UV maps otherwise it cannot build the lighting; might be different for objects that create dynamic lighting and thus dynamic shadows, but for fixed objects, you need shadow maps otherwise no shadows are built during lighting builds.
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(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/362494960853057537/Shadow_problem.PNG)
There are shadows being generated, just not onto the terrain for some reason.
I'll ask around as for why this is.
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Day 13:
When you make a vehicle it goes "Vehicle Ready" :D
Structure Factory Dialogs only add kit images if the matching SF is selected.
Convecs are detected if already docked.
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It depends entirely on the game actually leeor, and the rendering system used. In Skyrim, if you delete the shadow maps, you no longer can cast shadows. Quake 2 uses OpenGL, so it likely has a different system setup to control that. Some game engines, like UE4 for example, needs shadow UV maps otherwise it cannot build the lighting; might be different for objects that create dynamic lighting and thus dynamic shadows, but for fixed objects, you need shadow maps otherwise no shadows are built during lighting builds.
Quake 2 doesn't natively do dynamic lighting. That's something I added after the fact. I think we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about dynamic lights and real-time shadows. I think you're talking about light maps. These are precomputed radiosity maps and is a technology that isn't very widely used anymore (in fact I think it's safe to say that most games don't use light maps at all anymore).
But that's enough thread derailment. :)
Anyway, point being that it looks like StarCraft 2 without any of the shaders turned on which looks pretty bland (though runs really well on older hardware)... so it's a bit of a head scratcher.
Anyway, still looking good.
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Quake 2 doesn't natively do dynamic lighting. That's something I added after the fact. I think we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about dynamic lights and real-time shadows. I think you're talking about light maps. These are precomputed radiosity maps and is a technology that isn't very widely used anymore (in fact I think it's safe to say that most games don't use light maps at all anymore).
But that's enough thread derailment. :)
Anyway, point being that it looks like StarCraft 2 without any of the shaders turned on which looks pretty bland (though runs really well on older hardware)... so it's a bit of a head scratcher.
Anyway, still looking good.
It has been confirmed that this is an issue with the texture used for the ground.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/362734081215168512/Capture.PNG)
There are multiple maps available for putting on models, diffuse, specular, to name a few.
I just don't see the point when they haven't even been textured properly, or fully modelled even.
Previs assets are previs assets.
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Day 13 cont:
Kits can be unloaded and swapped for other kits in the SF
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Interested to see where this goes. Good job so far. Keep going
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Wow, you seem to be making rapid progress on this. Nice demos too. Very focused on each aspect of development, and shows the new features well. You're taking this little push quite seriously.
lol @leeor_net: It's always about the shaders with you. That's your hammer! :P
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Day 14:
Load/Unload animations for convec and SF
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Day 15:
End of Week 2
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If you ever wondered what outpost 3 in space would look like, here you go.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360603440835198976/363758082964062208/22.PNG)
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That's really shaping up nicely.
Good job on the videos. How did you put them together? I'm really curious what tools you used, and how long it took to put the video sequence together.
Nicely narrated too! :D
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That's really shaping up nicely.
Good job on the videos. How did you put them together? I'm really curious what tools you used, and how long it took to put the video sequence together.
Nicely narrated too! :D
I used Xsplit to record the video, Adobe Premiere to edit everything together.
The narration could be better, background noise wasn't minimized like I usually do, but I was trying to get it out as fast as possible.
I'd say it took about an hour to put both videos together.
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Well done!
*Applause*
I really like the terrain for some reason :)
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Well done!
*Applause*
I really like the terrain for some reason :)
Maybe because it's using Outpost 2 textures? :D
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When you made the videos, did you narrate while making them, or did you narrate afterwards when cutting video and putting the sequence together? Were there any retakes? Any details on how you handled them?
I'm rather curious about the videos, since I've been watching a lot of online course videos as of late. It's got me thinking some OP2 programming screencasts could be put together. That might be an easier and more fun way for people to learn how to program OP2 related projects. I was thinking your experiences with the video work could be useful to learn from. Also, if anyone else has projects nearing completion, you'd do a pretty good job making demo videos.
Another question I had, was about how this project was made. I really have no idea what it's like to make stuff for the SC2 engine. You mentioned scripting. What do the scripts look like? Would you be able to post a short sample?