Outpost Universe Forums
Projects & Development => Projects => Outpost 2 Update => Topic started by: BlackBox on October 19, 2004, 05:59:10 PM
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Here, you can post your wishes on what you want us to add to the game in the upcoming updates.
Any reasonable suggestion is possible that you think we could do in a reasonable amount of time ("make your units totally invisible on the map" isn't too reasonable, but things like "add more landrush maps" are).
We probably won't be able to get to all of them right away, but post them anyway.
It's everyone's game, so tell us what you want to see.
-- op2hacker
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-Another world map
-More Landrush maps :P
-Make speed upgrade for tigers reserchable if you retrieve the wreckage on Flood Plain
-More maps with said wreckage
-Better Editor (this would be a long project)
-An AI that can play ANY map. (Again, a very long project)
-Maybe add capeablility to play with 8 players rather then 6
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Mmmm, wishful thinking. :)
More styles of gameplay. Make every way you can die in OP2 count for something. :P
I'll second a better editor. We need one for the lazy map makers like me. :D
More levels with Wreckage! (I've got one made already that's playable, maybe needs a little more work though)
A level with enough wreckage for everyone! (It's do-able)
A way to play landrush without having tons of convecs sitting around afterwards.
I'll second an AI that can play any map. (Existing or New only? I'm kinda working on something that's showing some promise for new levels and might someday have the possibility of adding it to old levels, but that's a really long way off)
I'm not sure it's reasonable to have 8 players instead of 6 players. The location of the internal player array is at a fixed location in memory and I'm pretty sure there isn't blank space after it. Same with the exported _Player array. I can't think of any reasonable workaround hacks for this one.
Oh, and the Tiger Speed Modification is "researched" as soon as you unload the cargo truck. There is no need to research it.
How about more secret techs to get from wreckage? I'm fairly sure they could be made.
A better shell! It takes way too many clicks to start a multiplayer game. Plus if you make a mistake you have to cancel and go back menus. Why not have a menu with more options on it so this isn't a problem? Also, wouldn't it be nice to add more multiplayer options to the pregame setup? Maybe have a DLL specific area. (But this would be a very large project and probably not very reasonable.)
Related to the above: Make the sheets selectable, so you can play with different sets of rules. (Again, not very reasonable.)
Mmmm, game server like WON. (*sigh* sadly a very huge project, but it *might* be doable given enough time.)
Anyone else come to the conclusion that it'd probably be easier to add all the "features" we want if we just remade the game? But again, not very reasonable, at least not in terms of time. Oh well, more wishful thinking from other people now. :P
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I mean make it so the speed upgrade has to be reserched.
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Some sort of fire napaml weapon!
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Haxtor, I think I mentioned "reasonable" in what you could and couldn't think of. (Adding stuff like that would be very hard. and you'd need to create new graphics, which is unreasonable).
I don't think making sheets and other stuff selectable, etc is hard.
The tiger speed mod needing to be researched is totally possible, too.
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well then 8 players... we only have colors for 7, no?
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ok i want to be abble tp build scorpions that have a thors hammer on board or acid cloud, i ahev done this in dll so it is possible. also you can have a scorpion with a disateruious explotion onboard that blows up biger then a supernova.
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Haxtor, having thor or acid scorpion is impossible in game. Scorpion is a plymouth development, while Thor and Acid is Eden.
btw in the way of selecting sheets we could play FULLTECH at last...
is there a way to add new game modes?
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"make your units totally invisible on the map" isn't too reasonable
Umm, you're not gonna believe this, but... I just found an invisibility flag on the units. I've made a vehicle factory invisible. It still works perfectly. The only thing you can see is the active/disabled light (which your enemy can't see) and of course the selection box when you click on it. Mind you, the bulldozed terrain, the tubes, and the units popping out of it kinda give it away.
Anyways, so far it doesn't seem to work for vehicles, just the buildings. I also had it non targetable for a little while (one of the other flags), but I couldn't control it either.
The speed upgrade needing research seems fairly easy. Were you thinking to make it always researchable or only researchable if you get wreckage?
Allowing for 7 players *might* be possible but 8 is quite unreasonable. Mind you it looks like having 7 players could be pretty difficult. I'm not really sure how to go about doing it. For one, the multiplayer pregame setup dialog would need changing to make room for a seventh player. Probably a few other user interface issues and possibly some error checking code here and there could get in the way. It might actually work for 7 players though since it already has room for 7 internally (probably an extra one for a computer opponent). Anyways, it looks like it might require some shell changes so I don't really consider it all that reasonable. At least for now.
Scorpions with disasterous building explosions on them could be kinda cool, but probably better kept to specialty maps. I would prefer sticking with the original sheets except maybe for specialty maps, which for now means only modified tech trees. Having selectable sheets would be cool, I wouldn't mind having alternate rules then, but I'd like to always be able to play with the originals. Anyways, I see having selectable sheets as a shell modification. Is there an easier way Hacker?
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i know this is unreasonable but i had some wild map ideas from WC3 for OP2 but all i think would need custom units... i know its a long time to figure out and etc., but if there is a way (that is not TOO challenging) then lemme know.
to Hooman, that light disappeared after a while, dunno y
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Haxtor, having thor or acid scorpion is impossible in game. Scorpion is a plymouth development, while Thor and Acid is Eden.
btw in the way of selecting sheets we could play FULLTECH at last...
is there a way to add new game modes?
Ok it isnt impossible you can have eden weaponds with plymoth i have done it many times by mistake wiht makeing my own dlls. it is just the sheets that need to be modifyed so you can build the scorpions with the desired weapon on board. FYI you can put any weapon available in game on a scorpion and not crash the game. It adds a new rush technique because scorpions cannot be emped
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Don't change too much in op2. You could ruin the game.
If you're going to make scorpions with normal weapons available, do it so that one has to research it after getting some wrackage (as for the tiger speed boost). This way map designer can decide if this technologie will be available on his/her map.
But never make eden-only-weapons available for plymouth or vice versa.
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The speed upgrade needing research seems fairly easy. Were you thinking to make it always researchable or only researchable if you get wreckage?
I mean, make it so that after you get the wreckage, you then have to reserch the speed upgrade. Make it long, along the lines of 1600 points (about the amount required to reserch spaceship tech)
GAME TYPE IDEA
Name:
"Run for your life!"
Most likely a long game.
Objectives:
Launch all spaceship modules (list them. Ex Habit Ring, Fusion Drives)
Launch Pheonix Module
Launch Food Module
Launch Rare Metals Module
Launch Common Metals Module
Launch Evacuation Module (available after food, rare, and common modules have been launched. Evac cannot be launched until colony population reaches 200)
Map size required:
Takes place on World maps only, others are most likely too small.
How it works:
All players start fairly near eachother. An Advanced lab starts between them (can be player 1, or AI, or player 2, whatever, dosn't really matter. Add a Tokamak to power the Advanced Lab, very close to it. A cc is required, and can powe the Advanced Lab.) and they are on an open stretch of land. This is basically landrush, they start with everything they need to start a new colony. 6 beacons nearby, for all players. Morale drops off at start. (if enabled. Disasters MUST be on for this to work correctly!) At roughly mark 250, a anouncement is said. "THE BLIGHT IS APPROACHING!". The Advanced lab is the starting infected spot. You can even make it so that the blight has to be reserched, and all other reserch is disabled until the blight is reserched. The blight spreads over the area, consumeing any nearby player bases. It moves very slowly on the map. VERY slowly. (rate of maybe one square every 25-50 marks. Might even be able to go as low as 10.)
The players most run away, build and reserch. The objective: Escape the doomed planet (New Terra). Eventually they start running off into space. First person to leave the planet, wins. Make lots of beacons everywhere. Singles, dubbles, tripples. The ore should be fairly abundent. Cliffs, orange, grey, black ground.
Starting Discription:
After running away from the blight the first time, the players are able to only build a Basic Lab. Residences, CC, SF, Smelters, Common Storage, Tokamaks are the only things available other then the basic lab. They must reserch the starting 4 techs, Chemistry, Boptronics, and the other 2 or 3 ish. After this reserch has been completed, Standard labs are available. From there, players play as normal.
(Note: This is when the first CC is built)
(Note: Start is similar to that of landrush, all structures loaded into convecs)
Extras that I think should be in there:
ALL disasters. You name it, should be there. Meteors, Vortexs, Volcanic Eruptions (maybe one or two small ones, and a largeish one) Lightning Storms. Volcanic spread should be fairly slow as well, so no player is quickly wasted.
Maybe some ares designed to look like some landforms in the main game campaign. EX Plymouth Mission 2, Eden Mission 3, ect. Shouldn't be too many spots, can really mess up the map.
Plenty of cliffs to be in the way. Blight growth rate should be slowed on these, so players can kinda "Hide" behind them. If possible, growth rate should be slightly faster during day then night (unless this is already built in) Obviously Eden would have a bit of an advantage, with their Microbe Walls.
Neat possible features:
Blight grows faster on some land areas then others. EX slower on orange then grey (if this isn't automatic)
An Automatic warning that the blight is approaching whenever it gets close to a player's base.
Objective to have enough evac transports for your population. Players start with roughly 3 or 4 evacs, (75-100 population space) Each evac can hold 25 people, so not an insane requirement. A population of 200 requires 8 evacs. Population of 300 requires 12.
How the evac requirement would work: If this objective is NOT filled, and your last CC gets wasted, you lose. I don't know how to do this, maybe make all player vehicles self destruct? Or make them unable to control their vehicles?
What this basically is:
A multiplayer version of the single player campaign.
MAJOR REQUIREMENT:
If morale is on, a major change needs to be made.
Currently, any building that is infected to the blight does not aid your colony in any way, but IS added to the Disabled Bldg ratio. This negatively affects morale. Plus the "Structures Disabled" message gets annoying. This will have to be somehow disabled, hopefully it isn't hard coded into the game. Otherwise, morale will be impossible on this map.
The only other solution I can think of is making the blight insta kill buildings. Not as cool looking, but it does work.
Another possible problem is that these buildings would somehow have to not be included in a player's structure limit, or they could quite quickly run into problems.
More then 2 players would be nice...
Thats all I can think of. Comments anyone?
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Ok it isnt impossible you can have eden weaponds with plymoth i have done it many times by mistake wiht makeing my own dlls. it is just the sheets that need to be modifyed so you can build the scorpions with the desired weapon on board. FYI you can put any weapon available in game on a scorpion and not crash the game. It adds a new rush technique because scorpions cannot be emped
Haxtor i meant in "normal" game... of course, sheets edited, dll hacked, etc it is possible
Don't change too much in op2. You could ruin the game.
If you're going to make scorpions with normal weapons available, do it so that one has to research it after getting some wrackage (as for the tiger speed boost). This way map designer can decide if this technologie will be available on his/her map.
But never make eden-only-weapons available for plymouth or vice versa.
SELECTABLE SHEETS? SHEETS ONLY FOR MAPS? IS THAT ENOUGH?
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SELECTABLE SHEETS? SHEETS ONLY FOR MAPS? IS THAT ENOUGH?
enough for ?
I'm not sure about what you want to tell me. But the only thing that matters is whether you change something in op2 or not. Selectable sheets wouldn't be a way to remove any changes. It could become so that one either has to accept the changes or won't be able to play. It would at least split the community into many parts which all prefer different setups of the game.
I believe you want to make a new warcraft out of op2. If so, you should better change another or make a completely new game.
And please don't shout at me.
Baikon:
Great idea. I'd most obviously play that scenario.
A solution for the inactive-buildings-problem could be to make infected structures no longer belong to the player but to the ai (as in the single player campeign mission 4)
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For the selectable sheets idea, there are two ways I see possible. One is to allow 1 specific level to have it's designer choose to use an alternate set of sheets. This would not affect any other levels, particularly the ones already made. The other way I was thinking, was to have multiple sets of sheets available for all levels. But then the default set of sheets should always be an option, so you'll always be able to play with the original rules.
I'm actually rather against chaning the game. At least in the sense that you can't play by the original rules.
So yeah, those updates that took the tubes away from GPs and allowed Evacuation Transports to be built in multiplayer, I don't think should really be there. At least not replacing the original rules the way they did. I wouldn't mind it being an option, maybe set by the game creator, or a level designer. Then people can choose to not play that level, or not play a game where the creator wants to use different rules.
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I think Guardposts should have their tubes back.... Screws over any AI base in the default games, they don't compensate for the removal. I don't mind Evac Transports being available though.
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Don't change too much in op2. You could ruin the game.
We should develop a new op2 and leave op2 how it is.
edit researsh, weps, units etc 2 make a game which works differently from op2. i havent spent much time on my mod yet. id like 2 make both teams different but even. i was thinking for researsh you would tech up in levels like on AOE/DoW, u would have 2 research some stuff each time then u could level up a tech level.
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now i say: selectable OP2.. when the game starts it will ask if op2 or modded op2 u wanna run.
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Yes definatly
now i say: selectable OP2.. when the game starts it will ask if op2 or modded op2 u wanna run.
Im fed up of starting a coloney game and half way through finding that the vech fact only needs 2 workers to operate etc... I keep find changes that i dont want there.
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I know this would be extremly hard, but ill throw it out anyway
remember that robo/seed coloney ive been preaching about for years, that lol
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Beta, as soon as creating new units will be figured out i create a Unit Editor, okay? then u can do ur thingy...
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Yes, I want to be able to play the game with the original settings in place.
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I think we need the solution where the original compressed sheets.vol is part of the current op2 v 1.3.1 i.e. an unmodded original copy. hen there should be say op2.5 the modded version this way the two games are idfferent and cant be played with in multiplayer against the other version due to a completly diffrent checksum.
yes this would mean more downloading and two copies of op2 but it would solve quite alot of problems that i had about 2 months agowith different mods of op2 and checksum errors between different players as no one quite knew what version they had or should have.
may be even what baikon said about selecting between 2 the two versions at startup - but again that would involve alot of programming and more unwanted updates by some people who dont want to have anything to do with a modded version of op2 cos they like the original how it is.
Please bear in mind that im not trying to offend anyone who has put in alot of hard work to acheive the two versions, as it is execllent that so much has been learnt about how the game works through this modding of it. i for one however think that it has progressed so far and well that it deserves to have its own distro so different people can appreciate the original and the modded version without too mush hassle.
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dont worry it will be fine next update.
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Hmmmm... a site with all the mods and upgrades and new map packs. A dedicated site. With a lot of variety in new colony games.
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how about some more colony games, the ones we have are getting on the old side
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AI AI AI AI AI AI AI AI unlitmeted by what you want and no ai that stays in 40 blocks of his command center but one that try's to kill you. and you should do a no war time so that you cant attack anybody for like 20min or 10 or 30 or 10000 hours
oh and 1 thing as far as i know in mp you start with a normal lab but you should have an option to start with a basic lab and very low tech just you start out in with nearly nothing
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AI is actually quite unlimited for us. Since its faked to hell and beyond, we have the option of making it as hard or easy as we please. However, this can take a lot of codeing, and not everyone wants to do this.
Basic lab will not be added to multiplayer except on select maps. It dosn't have any real purpose in multiplayer games these days, thus it will never be added.
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I've been thinking. On the Final Fantasy 11 site they have a feature that shows "live" images from the game on their main site. Would it be possible to add something to OP2 that allows a gamer to send a live screenshot while in battle? They could hit something like F7 for example and it Automaticly sends a screenshot to the OPU site.
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Basic lab...It dosn't have any real purpose in multiplayer games these days, thus it will never be added.
the glory of moding
people can add there own new research topics to stick in it.
and im sure theres more..
Prime this is possible to be coded, even in visual basic, take a screenshot, resize it, upload it to ftp sever. Its even possible - with the software i use to record games to send live video of some one playing via a video stream.
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I am REALLY happy that we can make out own research projects...thats one of the best things...:D
^_^
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I am against changing all values of buildings and units in Op2.
Sierra made up those settings quite well balanced. They should stay like they are.
Make new maps, improve the AI, yes. But not the buildings and units itself. Because people are gonna start asking settings only to please their way of gaming. And that is where OP2 is so great, you have to play the rules of a hard planet, of a poor human technology. Keep the game as pure as possible, in its philosophy. As I said, AI, maps, new missions, this is all great.
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I second that.
I'm used to the old values and still confused when playing with the new ones.
5 workers for a command center is just too much and 2 for a vec fac isn't enough. These settings might be perfect for pie-los, but they are crap on large maps in a resource race game.
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yeah TH300 i did mess up a lot by changing the values, i wasnt thinking when i did it.
like i said in evac and trade center threads it will be changed back next update.
once again, sorry :P
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I want to make it harder but also make it so you dont run out of research topics anytime soon. I want to make it worth it for constantly resarching tose 40 Scientist topics. Also I want to redo that guys mod to make more of the topics make sense...I dont remember Quantam Physics leading to nano technology.
^_^
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Nightmare maybe you can work on a mod to expand Op2, with researsh topics and stuff. It could make games be able to last for much longer.
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OP2 doesn't have an attack-move command, does it? That'd be nice. You know, you click the ground and the units move there, shooting any enemies in the way.
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We wont be able to bring you that update Sirbomber, we simply cant edit the game engin like that.
Use patrol in game for move attack..
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Sirbomber, just use the patrol command, start it at the current unit location and end it where u want them to finish up (or a bit further) u just gotta remember to cancel the patrol command when the vech are done.
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I've been thinking. On the Final Fantasy 11 site they have a feature that shows "live" images from the game on their main site. Would it be possible to add something to OP2 that allows a gamer to send a live screenshot while in battle? They could hit something like F7 for example and it Automaticly sends a screenshot to the OPU site.
I like this idea! Lets look into this if its possible...
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Yes its possible Stormy. I use screen capture software which can send out a live video feed. This uses lots of bandwidth of chorse tho.
As for screenshots, i gess a app could be made to take a screenshot from a game every few mins and upload it to the site and a thumbnail could be created and we could have a latest shots page.
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Yes its possible Stormy. I use screen capture software which can send out a live video feed. This uses lots of bandwidth of chorse tho.
As for screenshots, i gess a app could be made to take a screenshot from a game every few mins and upload it to the site and a thumbnail could be created and we could have a latest shots page.
Good idea. I think I'll add this feature to my screenshot utility
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i suppose you could do somehting of the sort, but it certainly wouldnt be a integral part of op2. theres quite a bit of technical detail, and other crap if u want it to work elegantly.
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How about a better control scheme. Easy to understand, more intuitive. The current one is less user-friendly than the original SimCity.
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how about intersepting all the data that goes in and out when you play mutlieplayer so you can make recordings...
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I imagine that'd take some time. And cause some lag in multiplayer games. I'm not a coder so I wouldn't know..
Logic.
Panda.
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We're actually keeping an eye on the idea of recording and playing back games. There is still some uncertainty about whether current ideas would/should work, so it might not happen for a while, but this does seem to be a possibility. There shouldn't really be any noticable lag caused by recording, nor heavy disk space requirements, but the game also isn't built for playback and recording, so any such system might be a bit clunky.
For instance, what if you're watching a recorded game and click on a building and try to issue a new command? Surely this sort of thing should be blocked if you want accurate playback. It'd be kinda annoying if you did something by accident and your whole playback got messed up because of it. On the other hand, it might be interesting to explore a bit of a "what if" scenario. Of course you could experience playback from another person's perspective, and thus be unable to issue commands. But then you also couldn't check on building status, such as research progress, or vehicle/structure kit building progress.
Also, there is the whole issue of interfacing the playback and recording with the game. How do you start it? Save recorded games? Start playback? Even if we have the technical knowledge to record actions in the game, and replay them, I wouldn't exactly know how to incorporate controls for such a system into the game. (I'm not really sure how the menu system works for one thing, so don't just go asking me to add new menu options).
But yes, I still like the idea of some sort of recording and playback.
The attack move command idea is also nice, but doesn't seem to be feasible. Changing unit behavior isn't really such an easy thing to do. At least not in most cases. Minor tweaks, were the old code is still used might be possible, but this is too high level of a change. But yes, it's nice to have this under consideration if some increase in knowlege changes the reality of this.
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STUPID QUESTION:
How hard would it be to set up a server to host online games? Im not ignorant of the work that would be involved, im simply curious. Please be kind.
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I guess it depends partly on what you mean by a server to host games.
Some work has been done on the SIGS/WON DLLs. I've found out enough to trick the client into thinking it was logging into a SIGS server, but I couldn't seem to get the initial room join to work correctly. That project has long since been put aside.
If you wanted a faked hosted game where you just entered the IP address or whatever (maybe outpostuniverse.net) into the TCP/IP box, that's also doable. But we'd need to understand all the necessary network packets that OP2 uses, and the order in which packets are expected, and on what ports. We have partial information here, but it's somewhat difficult to get complete information. Plus, not all the rammifications of such a system are understood. If there was no "player" hosting the game, how do you set the settings? At the very worst, you could add text commands that you type into the chat window that the server parses, but that's a little sick.
Also, neither of the above methods solves the NAT problems. In theory, those problems could be solved with a game server, but we'd have to make modifications to the OP2 network code to make use of that setup. That is far from obvious how to do. If you wanted to be sure you weren't breaking huge amounts of code or introducing bugs, you'd need to go through a rather large amount of assembly and figure out just how exactly the how network system works. It would be all too easy to introduce hard to find bugs doing this.
So basically, that sort of a project would take at least many months (probably over a year) of good solid work to get something working decently. And even if it did work, it might not solve all the problems you'd hoped it would.
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you know what would be awesome, some kind of unit quene in the factories, or even a constant [selected unit] produce checkbox. Because if you think about it how much time do you spend building the same unit at the same vech. factory in the game.
Also, idk much about programming, but couldn't you just capture all the packets through like 3 network games and look at it, or would that be not possible (disk space, time, lag, w/e). Then figure out how to make a won-like server. And what about the obvious, could we ask serria for won itself or something?
Im with most peope who dont want to change values (2 workers in a vech. fact arent enough) and I think a trade center should at least take some power, mabey a worker. But i think eden should be able to capture vehicles (repair vehicles interfacing w/enemy vehicles while emp'ed?). I also think it would be cool to reverse engineer captured vehicles, because if you have it you can tell how it works.
You know those selectors (its like an auto play) for mods on games like morrowind, could we do that on op2. It could be really simple, like when it starts, you check mods you want. You could just store mods not being used in a mod folder within in the op2 folder. The selector would move un-selected mod to the folder and selected mods to the op2 folder, then starts op2. You could have an option for original and other little bits. I think its simple, unless I missed some blatently obvious flaw, it just seems to simple.
Of course more wreckage/maps/better ai are always wanted.
Stealing/Sharing research would be cool. like drive a scout up to an enemy lab and it has to be there so long to get a topic (longer for bigger topics). you could make it a random topic, and once you steal it you have to decript it. Mabey you could load research into cargo tucks or scouts and transfer it to players.
Loading and transfering people into evac transports would be good, if probably hard to do, for your allies that starve and stuff.
And you know whats almost completely unrealted but would be really awesome, an op2 theme for windows. Error mesages could be savant voices, op2 already has some screen savers. startup noise could be like "command control initated", and other cool stuff.
Wow long post :P
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When OP2 1st came out the official op2 site had themese for both eden and plymouth, in fact i think command control initiated was the sound when windows booted :P
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But the problem is, would shutting down be "Command Control Terminated" or "Our colony is doomed"?
Alright, maybe not a problem, but still...
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Also, idk much about programming, but couldn't you just capture all the packets through like 3 network games and look at it, or would that be not possible (disk space, time, lag, w/e). Then figure out how to make a won-like server.
No.
The in game network protocol is different from the protocol SIGS/WON used to find games. Once a game has been found and you've joined it, the native network protocol for the game takes over. The SIGS/WON part of the protocol was only concerned with finding games.
So, either find someone who knows how it works, or hack the DLLs. I had a list of all the packet types used by the SIGS/WON DLLs, but I don't know what 99% of the fields mean. I only know the format of the packets, such as these 4 bytes are an int, followed by a 2 byte int, followed by a null terminated string, followed by a one byte char, etc. Maybe I'll get around to making a utility so people can play with the packets and see if they can figure anything out.
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I'll look at it just to make vague comments and not understand it in general until somebody else does it so I can take credit for it.
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The mod stuff is in the works and we plan to release it as part of OP2 v1.3.4.
It probably won't be part of the actual game menu, but what's going to happen is, the mods will add start menu shortcuts to activate the mod and launch OP2.
As for the moving colonists around, and stealing techs, technically that could be done through a mission DLL. It wouldn't be too hard to write such stuff in.
Although it would be quite 'simulated' and there could be some glitches. As the game wasn't designed to handle either of these things, we'd have to make it appear that the colonists are being traded.
(Example: Move Evac. trans. nearby a Trade Center. Add cargo "Colonists" to the evac trans, and subtract a number of colonists from the player's colonist count. (50 or so?). Move that vehicle by an ally's Trade center and clear it's cargo, add the 50 colonists to the ally's colonist count).
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About a fake WON, (since I love being master of the obvious) don't we know how to contact some of the people who made op2? Maybe we could ask if they knew anything about it, or if they know anybody who knows anything about it, or if they know anyone that knows anyone that knows something about it, or if... you get the idea ;).
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one more thing I think would be easy and cool would be the ability to build a basic lab after you get a standard lab. That way if someone makes a tech tree (remember the nano-tech one) and the players basic labe is destroyed after they have a standard lab their not screwed.
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That's all done in the techtree. I could do it right now if youo want. But it would only be for custom maps.
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The usual solution to the tech tree issue is to not give them the standard lab until all research at the basic lab is done. That way, if they have any research left to do at the basic lab, you can still build it back if it gets destroyed. But once you've finished all the research at the basic lab and are able to build a standard lab, the basic lab is now obsolete and it doesn't matter if you can't build it back when it's destroyed. In that sense, this problem is easy to get around by properly structuring the tech tree.
The only issue is if you want the basic lab and the standard lab available at the same time for concurrent research like you can do with the standard lab and the advanced lab. Keep in mind any sort of mod would need to avoid messing up the campaign game. I think this is best left alone, or left as a level specific mod somehow. (In other words, it's up to the DLL writer or level designer to make sure there are no problems. At least that's what I think).
Sirbomber, I believe the SIGS project was seperate from OP2, so the programmers of OP2 wouldn't have had to touch any of the SIGS code. At most, they probably just interfaced to the SIGS DLL (an existing project made by other programmers?). The interface between OP2 and SIGS consists of two DLLs and a handfull of functions. Two main functions really. In other words, they'd probably at best know someone who worked on it, since they only would have had to call a few interface fucntions. In any case, SIGS is years old, and it's very unlikely that anyone would remember any technical details at a level that's useful. Vague concepts on how the system worked aren't really of much use in implementing a new server. In fact, most ideas that sum up to asking the programmer who wrote it over 8 years ago probably aren't going to amount to much. Unless a programmer has worked on something in the last few months, they probably won't be able to tell you anything useful about the code. But yeah, I know, it's pretty tempting to ask anyways.
Btw, Leeor and myself have independly come across some header files describing the SIGS interface. It's not too much to go on, and it's for an old beta version and is not up to date or completely accurate, but it is of some value. If anyone else is looking for them, try google. :D (It was relating to Homeworld actually). It's proved to be of some use in figuring out how the protocol works. It could also be used to develop a new interface or protocol. Probably a ridiculous amount of work though.
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Omfg, I just found those headers too.
I find them a bit useful. At least for the interface.
It's mostly useless if we want to recreate the SIGS server however.
But if we want to rewrite the SIGS DLLs ... :)
OP2 only uses a subset of the functions that are available. In any case the headers are probably more than adequate to describe the interface that OP2 uses.
It appears that they were released when they released the HW source.
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I noticed that when you research extended-range projectile launcher, it doesn't say increased range on the affected vehicles. I also checked in the original op2, and it doesn't do it there either. It doesn't seem like it would be hard to do, but I dont really know. It would be sweet if they did though.
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extended-range projectile does increase the range of units!
and a note research is very easy to edit.
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it seems like this thread just leads to preaching about ideas for completely new things, not necessarily things that could be released in a patch. requesting a new game should go in another thread, but feature requests for standard op2 ONLY should go here. thats just my opinion but anyway...
can we get that empty blackness removed from the edges of the tiles when working in the mapper? when you set the slider to the middle it should put you in the middle of the map, instead of the middle of the maximum possible map size. it gets a little frustrating when you have to more or less "guess" the center of a map and where your current view is positioned on it. thats minor.
whats more major is that id like to create a "new user welcome package" perhaps that comes with the opu version of op2 in the .rar file. a compressed folder in which contains some desktop backgrounds, some op2 related fonts, custom cursors, system icons, some op2 themed IM and forum avatars. things like that to get the new user excited about what theyre getting.
or should this be something seperate? i was thinking maybe the new user email could contain a link to the file that they can downlaod seperately that is also linked to on the main download page.
whether this sounds good or not, id like to collects resources for making something like this. ill host it on my ftp and when we decide how to distribute it, it will be ready and well stocked.
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Sounds like a great idea Horus :D Not the thread for it tho :P
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i originally had a long rant about the mapper but then i cut most of it out so i didnt piss anyone off. i more or less wanted to say that id like to see some movement toward making the mapper easier to use and require less interpretation and manual-reading. like the sc mapper, you can pretty much figure out what to do by looking at it. while tile placement is straightforward, it would be nice to have something that would autogenerate some terrain. maybe something that would auto arrange cliffs, randomly place boulders and craters or fill an area with a random tiletype. some sort of zoom would be handy by allowing you to have an intermediate view between minimap and fullsize to check consistency, symmetry, layout, etc.
i also had some ideas about changes to op2 itself. id REALLY like more control over in-game messages. having additional tabs within the comms tab to type mask messages would help everyone out alot. for example, a tab that shows only completed building reports, combat reports, chat messages. being able to mask those irritating disaster warnings that fill the buffer instantly would really help. i realized the value of this when i started writing a tutorial on build order and starting a game. i wanted to build in op2 and then check back on the messages to reference my build order and the mark it ocurred at. finding them became impossible.
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Pllease post mapper suggestions and what u do and dont like about it etc in the mapper thread :P
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Is there some way we could have vehicles move of the dock of the grage when they exit, mabey even a "empty garge" button?
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Wow, I love that idea. An auto load would also be nice for the garage. :)
It doesn't look like an easy task though. :(
But hey, pester people from time to time and someone might figure it out. This sorta reminded me of a few things I wanted to look into. Namely adding more buttons to the command pane.
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I think it would be most reasonable to see a colony map that requires you to launch several starships, instead of just one, also it would be even more reasonable to see a colony map with a req. of 2000 colonists.... it would be interesting... lol.
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Support for 1024x512 (and possibly larger) maps. Unlikely that a fix could be made for Dynamix's OP2, might have to wait a long time until OP2 is rewritten.
Buildings/walls/tubes that are going to be made appearing translucent until construction is started. Again, might have to wait for OP2 to be rewritten, but who knows?
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Support for 1024x512 (and possibly larger) maps. Unlikely that a fix could be made for Dynamix's OP2, might have to wait a long time until OP2 is rewritten.
huh? I didn't know that they don't work. Why can I create them with the mapper, then?
Buildings/walls/tubes that are going to be made appearing translucent until construction is started. Again, might have to wait for OP2 to be rewritten, but who knows?
would indeed be nice.
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Just figured out something about the map size "limit" I mentioned in my previous post. If the map's width is at 1024, it will crash no matter what the height is. However, the height can be 1024 and the width can be <=512 and it'll work fine. It must be a problem with the game's handling of world maps.
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That sounds like something OP2 would do...
Now, if it would just make two separate globes that we could travel between... (then Space Program would be useful in LoS)
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In regards to the 512 width problem, it might be possible to disable the 'around the world' mode to allow greater-than-512 width maps to load properly. Only problem: They can't be world / wraparound maps.
I haven't looked into it at all lately though.
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A few more suggestions:
- Units don't receive damage from driving over allied players' docking bays.
- Trade centers being able to trade structures, colonists, technologies, and mass metals. Most of those would probably only be able to be done after OP2's rewritten, but structure transfers may be doable.